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#193379 by JCP61
Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:57 pm
#193440 by Vampier
Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:44 pm
... Vinny and Dane ... excellent graphic Posts and links ... thankyou.

JCP61 ... RT is merely another source of so-called "mass Media" although RT has more balls than the dying dinosaur prostitute/whores of the US. RT put on Julian Assauges excellent program and have done several very good interviews that the US are simply not capable of doing. more recently the Assad interview...well worth checking out. There seems to be a growing amount of evidence supporting the existence of the NWO appearing and I am still awaiting some from you to support your views ? Obviously there are several on the planet who you may take issue with. The Jesuits ... what can one say ? They should be banned from everywhere ... long ago and including Mexico.

Dane ... you are correct as it is all about the "blut". You must check into the Bloodlines of the Illuminati ... very revealing. Black Nobility ... have you heard of it ? And I am not speaking of the Black Messiah here. Some Bloodlines like the "Queen of Englands" and the Darwin/Huxley among others are in reality nothing more than inbred pervese idiots and not at all noble. Regarding what you state re man needing ideas and convictions ... very well put. In respect to what you say I believe all religions to be the same regarding this and that the "crux of man's reason" is found in the struggle between his mind and his conciousness.

RGMixProject ... I like very much your meter. You should get a Geiger Counter as well ?

CajunDaddy and Vinnie and JCP61 .....some very good high quality and awesome "fencing".

JCP61...you betray your lack of comprehension regarding what I have stated about my eventual departure from this great Forum. I spent the weekend working on my Wife and our Studio ... building walls and preparing for the cold.

Glenny ... excellent to hear from you ... are you keeping warm ?

Vinny ... excellent Bible Speak quotes. Thankyou.

CajunDaddy ... I among many feel there are indeed only sinners now.

JCP61 ... I was a breech baby ... "Arippa" Truly excellent graphic posts ... thankyou.

Yod ... I will address you in my next Post as I wish to do it seperately and completely as possible. Thank you very much for your Posts.


Ta Live Well Die Well

#193442 by DainNobody
Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:05 pm
the Black Virgin Mary's so adored by the Knights Templar (mainly in France) is what I am intrigued about.. I am trying to understand the concept of Black Virgin Mary but having troubles getting a "grip"..to my understanding Black Virgin Mary shrines are still common in France?
#193443 by Vampier
Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:14 pm
... Dane, I thank you for your Post. There is the Black Virgin in Mexico as well ... quite predominant actually. I will get back to this after I answer Yod.

Ta Live Well Die Well
#193458 by JCP61
Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:19 pm
Vampier wrote:... Vinny and Dane ... excellent graphic Posts and links ... thankyou.

JCP61 ... RT is merely another source of so-called "mass Media" although RT has more balls than the dying dinosaur prostitute/whores of the US. RT put on Julian Assauges excellent program and have done several very good interviews that the US are simply not capable of doing. more recently the Assad interview...well worth checking out. There seems to be a growing amount of evidence supporting the existence of the NWO appearing and I am still awaiting some from you to support your views ? Obviously there are several on the planet who you may take issue with. The Jesuits ... what can one say ? They should be banned from everywhere ... long ago and including Mexico.

you faild to mention that Rt is controlled directly by Vladimir Putin and will put on anyone hostile to the united states.

I suppose that depends on your feeling about the Jesuits. I just mentioned it because vinny seems fond of Jesuit college professors.


Vampier wrote:
JCP61...you betray your lack of comprehension regarding what I have stated about my eventual departure from this great Forum. I spent the weekend working on my Wife and our Studio ... building walls and preparing for the cold.
oh
Vampier wrote:
JCP61 ... I was a breech baby ... "Arippa" Truly excellent graphic posts ... thankyou.



Ta Live Well Die Well
oh
#193462 by Vampier
Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:39 pm
...JCP61 ... You are correct re RT. Since we mention this it is equally important to relate for those who may not know that virtually all of the US Mass Media ...TV ...Cable ... Radio ... Newspapers ... are controlled by a single entity ... the NWO. I thank you for your Posts ... I liked the double oh's ... very telling.


Ta Live Well Die Well
#193465 by JCP61
Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:56 pm
Vampier wrote:...JCP61 ... I thank you for your Posts ... I liked the double oh's ... very telling.


Ta Live Well Die Well


yes?
what do they tell you?

lord above,
it's like pulling teeth around here.

#193466 by Cajundaddy
Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:57 pm
Vinny, Vinny... Where is that fine Oxford education? The nature of faith requires that it cannot be proven through science or logic. A brief refresher course for you:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/faith

Vamp, you and I are in agreement. We are indeed all sinners on this earth. Some have chosen salvation through Christianity but it is clearly not for everyone. It is a free gift that does not require the performing of good deeds or strapping a bomb to your chest but only to ask. Many will never choose to ask.
#193474 by Vampier
Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:27 pm
...CajunDaddy ... I find no exception in what you state. Thank You.

Live Well Die Well

#193781 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:36 pm
VinnyViolin wrote:
Funny, you left out Galileo, who proved that the Sun does not revolve around the Earth, contrary to overwhelming religious belief of the time.



That is an inaccurate statement. Galileo was contrary to the overwhelming belief of ALL people, not just the religious. His opposition from the Vatican was based more on personal offense of the Pope than anything else. Copernicus had already established the basis for his hypothesis, but Galileo's first "proof" was faulty.

These days many famous scientists are proponents of atheism because of social pressures, but these great scientists believes in God because of the evidence.


Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)


Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and theologian. In mathematics, he published a treatise on the subject of projective geometry and established the foundation for probability theory. Pascal invented a mechanical calculator, and established the principles of vacuums and the pressure of air. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but in 1654 had a religious vision of God, which turned the direction of his study from science to theology. Pascal began publishing a theological work, Lettres provinciales, in 1656. His most influential theological work, the Pensées ("Thoughts"), was a defense of Christianity, which was published after his death. The most famous concept from Pensées was Pascal's Wager. Pascal's last words were, "May God never abandon me."

Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.

Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.

William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).

Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

#193783 by jimmydanger
Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:43 pm
Atheism is as stupid as religion itself, so this means very little. The ugly truth is that none of us know anything about the truth.

#193785 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:46 pm
VinnyViolin wrote:
yod wrote:Harold Camping was a discredited fool in the overwhelming christian community. Anyone stupid enough to follow him probably believes Jimmy Carter today.


Christians have been discredited as fools by the overwhelming scientific community.



the same people that told us we were moving into a new ice age only 50 years ago? It was scientists who first postulated that the earth was flat.


The only choices we were given in the last election were bad ones. But time will tell and even you will wish that Romney had won.

#193792 by VinnyViolin
Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:24 pm
yod wrote:
VinnyViolin wrote:
yod wrote:Harold Camping was a discredited fool in the overwhelming christian community. Anyone stupid enough to follow him probably believes Jimmy Carter today.


Christians have been discredited as fools by the overwhelming scientific community.



yod wrote:the same people that told us we were moving into a new ice age only 50 years ago? It was scientists who first postulated that the earth was flat.

With advancing technologies they are progressively gathering more data of higher quality to make their best guesses. Science progresses by continually attempt to prove itself wrong. How did flat Earth become church dogma? How and why did that change? Do you believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago?

yod wrote:The only choices we were given in the last election were bad ones. But time will tell and even you will wish that Romney had won.

http://youtu.be/qk12ALX9fz8
#193795 by Vampier
Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:37 pm
...here are a few unimportant questions that obviously have absolutely no relevance in the ""REEEAL WORRRLD"".

Is the US corrupt ?

Are mercenaries the real enemies of the US instead of veterans ?

Is the population of the US ignorant, cowardly, moral, healthy or discerning and informed ?

Fouride, aspartane, eugenics, Fema Camps, NAFTA, engineered economic collapse, taking of guns, NWO, 911 ... are these just "conspiracy Theory" ?

Is the US military dysfunctional ?

Are it's Generals experienced, patriotic ... cowards ?

Is Obama a good Commander in Chief ?

How long can the US afford to continue losing in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Afrika ?

Are Petraeus, Benghazi and other recent deaths of leaders related ?

Are they part of an Israeli NeoCon operation ?

Is Hillary a role model for young girls ?

Is the Arab Spring really a Fall ?

Are drone killings in Pakistan "good"?

Do you feel safer being molested by TSA and watched by drones, spyed on by cameras, censored and monitored ?

Do you believe in the Constitution ?

Do you support Executive Orders ?

What place does God and religion occupy in the Obama/Clinton/US government and the Netanyahu/Zionist/Israeli government?

Is the 2nd Amendment under assault ?

Is there really dangerous radiation coming from Fukushima ?

Will the EU bailouts solve anything ? he he he


Ta Live Well Die Well

#193804 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:25 pm
VinnyViolin wrote:With advancing technologies they are progressively gathering more data of higher quality to make their best guesses. Science progresses by continually attempt to prove itself wrong.



So you admit they are only guessing....thanks


How did flat Earth become church dogma?


Science proposed it and it was assumed to be the truth



How and why did that change?



2 christians (who were also scientists) kept pursuing the truth.







Do you believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago?




I don't believe that is what the bible says, though many of faith have interpreted it that way using the english translation instead of the original language.

The whole debate hinges on the meaning of the hebrew word "yom" (translated as "Day") which has a primary definition of "age or epoch" but is also used as the word for a 24 hour period. In any language, usage of a word is more important than it's definition. If I say that the election was "beautiful" you can bet that I don't mean the commonly held definition of that word.


But to answer the heart of your question, I believe a "yom" is an undefined period of time in the Creation narrative. There is no reason to assume that the first 2 "yom" were 24 hours, nor even 24 bazillion years.

The usage of that term only means that during that age/epoch, these things happened.

Even once the sun and moon were created during the 3rd "yom", we have no conclusive evidence to suggest that the earth rotated at the same speed it does today, which means a day (one rotation) could have been shorter or longer....we simply don't know. For example a day at the north pole lasts 6 months even now.

But according to the bible, the earth was encased by a cloud of some sort, like Venus is now. When those waters fell to earth there was a great flood. Before then we only know that the atmosphere was very different than it is now.


What I don't believe is evolution. Science itself is the proof that this "theory" has many holes in it. Throw a fish on the land every day for a billion years and it's not going to grow legs and lungs. It's going to decay and die.


So faith and science disagree on the length of time in the biblical narrative, but do you realize that science supports the exact sequence of events given in the bible 100%?

For Moses to have gotten that right is like finding one red quarter in a stack of quarters 8 feet high that covers the state of Texas.

Pretty slim chance, yet he did get the sequence of events in correct order according to our best scientists today.

Mathmatics is a science, btw.





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Last edited by t-Roy and The Smoking Section on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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