General Music Chat

Ok , One of Ringo's tricks is Grecian Formula... Ha! But seriously, He has, up to this day, undeniably stuck to simple meters, simple patterns and that's his secret in a nutshell... Compare his work to say that of Dream Theater's drumming and you'll see whut I mean.

simple meter? yer busted. there's plenty of Beatles tunes like "All You Need Is Love" that super smoothly moves from one time signature to another! they've got tunes that chug along in 4/4 and THEN for the last part of the chorus (or wherever) they'll throw in some 3/4 time. or just the opposite...as early on as "A Taste Of Honey" that moves seamlessly from 3/4 in the verses to 4/4 in the chorus.

and the BEAUTY of it is...if you weren't counting it....you'd NEVER catch it! in my book THAT is off the charts. anybody like Rush or Dream Theatre can play some herky jerky odd time 5/4 or 7/4 that doesn't swing or groove. big deal. it's the MASTERS that can play that stuff in way that you'd never notice if you didn't count it!

check out Paul Simon's "Have A Good Time" as a great example. and points to P.S. for the tongue in cheek title too!

Some of what separates his work from others, might also have to do with how he ques into and out of a phrase in a song If everybody else always came in on '2', you can bet yer dollars he'd come in on 3, and so on. If you expect a down beat, he'll throw you to up beat and so on.

i have to respectfully disagree. i can't think of one Beatles tune where the 'one' is ever vague or mysterious. yeah, ringo would begin his tom tom fills in different places than others but it always came out solidly outlining whatever the time signature happened to be....and defining where the "one" is.

I suspect that early on, George Martin was very keen on insisting that the drum kits always stay properly tuned... Why was that important...? Just listen to anything on Abby Road... and how well his drum sound binds to the tonal qualities of the songs. Yeah you could say it was in the mix, but you cant mix in 'resonation' with most listerners.

well, maybe the great drum tuning is to be credited to george martin...maybe not. great drummers will always care about how their drums sound and since like many others i believe ringo to be one of the great drummers...i suspect it's just as likely it was HIS thing.

After 376 posts he finally says something in the realm of reality.

and whut..you're not gonna thank me for not using any big words?

hey glen look at that...there ARE some things we can agree on!

Nice,,, You are one arrogant person. Sorry,, I used ONE BIG word there....


(one)

After 376 posts he finally says something in the realm of reality.

and whut..you're not gonna thank me for not using any big words?

hey glen look at that...there ARE some things we can agree on!

Nice,,, You are one arrogant person. Sorry,, I used ONE BIG word there....


(one)

and you spelt it rite two! to the head of the class you go!

After 376 posts he finally says something in the realm of reality.

and whut..you're not gonna thank me for not using any big words?

hey glen look at that...there ARE some things we can agree on!

Nice,,, You are one arrogant person. Sorry,, I used ONE BIG word there....


(one)

and you spelt it rite two! to the head of the class you go!

YEESS aye dide.

Ok , One of Ringo's tricks is Grecian Formula... Ha! But seriously, He has, up to this day, undeniably stuck to simple meters, simple patterns and that's his secret in a nutshell... Compare his work to say that of Dream Theater's drumming and you'll see whut I mean.

simple meter? yer busted. there's plenty of Beatles tunes like "All You Need Is Love" that super smoothly moves from one time signature to another! they've got tunes that chug along in 4/4 and THEN for the last part of the chorus (or wherever) they'll throw in some 3/4 time. or just the opposite...as early on as "A Taste Of Honey" that moves seamlessly from 3/4 in the verses to 4/4 in the chorus.

Simple Meter...I am still sticking by my story. Changing tempo does not constitute deviation from simple meter. Dream theater could do an entire song in one tempo 7/4 which is not necessarily 'simple" BTW I will concede that "Here Comes the Sun" was not simple...Prolly the hardest that Ringo had to actually work.

Some of what separates his work from others, might also have to do with how he ques into and out of a phrase in a song If everybody else always came in on '2', you can bet yer dollars he'd come in on 3, and so on. If you expect a down beat, he'll throw you to up beat and so on.

i have to respectfully disagree. i can't think of one Beatles tune where the 'one' is ever vague or mysterious. yeah, ringo would begin his tom tom fills in different places than others but it always came out solidly outlining whatever the time signature happened to be....and defining where the "one" is.

I see your 'respectfully disagree' and raise you one 'respectfully disagree'... People forget That Paul's Bass playing was a solid driving force in the tempos and meters. Listen to Rocky Raccoon and note the single snare attack which depicts the gunshot (Not comin in on 'One' ), while the bass line counters the surrounding beats to keep with the stride of the song

I suspect that early on, George Martin was very keen on insisting that the drum kits always stay properly tuned... Why was that important...? Just listen to anything on Abby Road... and how well his drum sound binds to the tonal qualities of the songs. Yeah you could say it was in the mix, but you cant mix in 'resonation' with most listerners.

well, maybe the great drum tuning is to be credited to george martin...maybe not. great drummers will always care about how their drums sound and since like many others i believe ringo to be one of the great drummers...i suspect it's just as likely it was HIS thing.

Full House! Three Beatles and two Dream Theaters! I Win !

Just because a drummer follows a click track doesn't mean there aren't tempo changes, it just means that the change is is controlled - no more runaway freight trains with the speed going out of control.

Poor Ringo always gets slagged on! Ringo played with a lot of style and taste, something lacking in most drummers these days. He never played too much or too little, always just right. It wouldn't have been The Beatles without him.

Just because a drummer follows a click track doesn't mean there aren't tempo changes, it just means that the change is is controlled - no more runaway freight trains with the speed going out of control.

what do you mean by "tempo changes"? going from a slower section to a faster one.....or do you mean little unintentional speeding up and slowing down?

i'm sticking w my earlier statements. no drummer worth his or her salt should need to play to a click track to keep their tempo "controlled". and when you DO play to a click you're giving up some groove in the quest to be precise.

take any old James Brown tune. or some Meters. or any of those old ATLANTIC or Motown recordings that were never played w a click...never quantitized down to 64th notes.....that stuff has grease. that stuff grooves. it's organic.

...and it never would feel the way it does if it had been recorded to click track!

i think that's the problem w much of today's music. in the desire to be precise and so playing w a click and quantitizing everything...things end up sounding sterile. to these old ears anyway.

Poor Ringo always gets slagged on! Ringo played with a lot of style and taste, something lacking in most drummers these days. He never played too much or too little, always just right. It wouldn't have been The Beatles without him.

i dunno....i think folks that "get it" really do appreciate Ringo and give him his due.

there are always gonna be people that are only impressed by pyrotechnical displays of blazing chops....and they'll likely never get why ringo is so great.

i have a book called "The Big Beat". i believe it was put together by max weinberg (drummer from E Street Band). he interviews a dozen or so different drummers and to the man they all praise ringo.

A drummer sets a tempo, everyone on stage is responsible for keeping time. There are no 'Tricks'. If a band isn’t tight, don’t automatically blame the drummer.

A good drummer knows every song’s structure and uses his ears to ‘drive’ the band. Using subtleties, nuances and dynamics in his playing, a drummer starts and stops songs, signals breaks, chord progression changes and modulations, nudges singers in at the right time, and generally makes sure everyone on stage knows what is going to happen next. If someone makes a mistake, it’s the drummer’s job to get the band back on track. He is a choreographer and a quarterback, and must learn to read each player’s body language and mannerisms. It’s not an accident that, like an orchestra’s conductor, he is in the middle of the stage and on a riser.

When I see someone state that ‘all drummers speed up’, ‘all drummers should be man enough to use a click’, ‘make sure your drummer can keep time’, or even tell ignorant drummer jokes (they never get old, by the way), it tells me that they have never met, much less played with a professional drummer. Perhaps their level of musicianship is so poor that it doesn’t allow them to meet one. Perhaps their arrogance drives the good drummers away. Or maybe drummers are just smart enough to see that they are so insecure in their own playing that they choose to put others down rather than to promote themselves. If someone is arrogant enough to blame everything on the drummer when the band performs poorly, they should be humble enough to give him all the credit when the band sounds good. It’s a group effort, good or bad.

If any of this is news to you, don’t be surprised when you cannot find a professional drummer who is willing to work with you. I can’t begin to tell you how discouraging it is reading some of the posts by my ‘fellow musicians’.

Dang, I thought you were saying your drummer is impotent!

Seriously, why do drummers feel the need to play songs too fast? It kills the groove for the other folks in the band. EVERY drummer I have EVER played with does this even ones that TEACH drums for a living! I played with ONE drummer that would sometimes play the first 3 or 4 songs too fast after he settled down he would play the songs at a good tempo. Maybe you drummers could answer this question for me?

If in your opinion EVERY drummer you have EVER played with plays 'too fast', MAYBE IT'S NOT THE DRUMMER!

Yea Haley you startin those songs too fast of what! LOL

I think a drummer that has his fundamentals down is an asset to any group, it can make or break a band, but I dont think a drummer is the responsible party when bands dont click, its agroup effort, and face it som band suck, no matter what they do!

Haley I was just picking at you man, Ive started many a song too fast ot too slow, but then my job in the band is to look good! The tempo is the drummers fault! LOL!

that's one of things i like about playing bluegrass. w no drummer EVERYONE really IS responsible for good timekeeping.

that's one of things i like about playing bluegrass. w no drummer EVERYONE really IS responsible for good timekeeping.

I play a lot of bluegrass

that's one of things i like about playing bluegrass. w no drummer EVERYONE really IS responsible for good timekeeping.

I play a lot of bluegrass

is the wink to indicate you're joking around?

because, even tho it's not the norm i have played bluegrass w drummers.