General Music Chat

is nobody paying attention to the recent facts brought about by the independent media??

newer investigation into this (see my last post in this thread) has determined that the making and timing of that movie was a very deliberate act and funded by some right-wing fundamentalist groups. That it was designed to enrage muslims is not even an arguable point anymore.

What should really have both sides very concerned is that the mass media was content to play it as a bunch of crazy muslims attacking america again.. when the reality of it is that it's a bunch of crazy fundamentalists that do not represent the majority of their kind, being played into reacting violently by a bunch of crazy fundamentalists on our side.

It's akin to yelling "fire" in a theater or "gun" in an airport. These people could be charged too, as "inciting a riot" is illegal and intent can be proven.

What's also interesting is how many people associated with that video are hiding in the shadows.. they KNOW what they did and the reaction it would provoke.

It's time for us all to wake up and denounce this nonsense. Don't let the makers of the video play you as well as they played others.

Our mass media should truly be ashamed of itself for such poor reporting and lack of fact-finding efforts. Kudos to the independent journalists who took an objective view and did some actual investigation, rather than repeat what the masters told them to.

is nobody paying attention to the recent facts brought about by the independent media??

newer investigation into this (see my last post in this thread) has determined that the making and timing of that movie was a very deliberate act and funded by some right-wing fundamentalist groups. That it was designed to enrage muslims is not even an arguable point anymore.

What should really have both sides very concerned is that the mass media was content to play it as a bunch of crazy muslims attacking america again.. when the reality of it is that it's a bunch of crazy fundamentalists that do not represent the majority of their kind, being played into reacting violently by a bunch of crazy fundamentalists on our side.

It's akin to yelling "fire" in a theater or "gun" in an airport. These people could be charged too, as "inciting a riot" is illegal and intent can be proven.

What's also interesting is how many people associated with that video are hiding in the shadows.. they KNOW what they did and the reaction it would provoke.

It's time for us all to wake up and denounce this nonsense. Don't let the makers of the video play you as well as they played others.

Our mass media should truly be ashamed of itself for such poor reporting and lack of fact-finding efforts. Kudos to the independent journalists who took an objective view and did some actual investigation, rather than repeat what the masters told them to.

Uh Huh SURE! I mean no disrespect to you Kramer. I'm not buying that story not for a second! I KNEW THIS WAS COMING! If you believe that story I have a bridge I would like to sell ya!

Uh Huh SURE! I mean no disrespect to you Kramer. I'm not buying that story not for a second! I KNEW THIS WAS COMING! If you believe that story I have a bridge I would like to sell ya!

Umm.. really? The new york times is now reporting it, ABC news is finally admitting that 'all was not as it seemed', the mass media in general is now being forced by proxy to report report something closer to the truth (that supports the facts I've provided)- at what point will you admit to yourself that it really was an intentional incitement- when fox news reports the same?

I wouldn't hold my breath personally waiting for fox news, but hey, they won the right to repeat lies and call it news in federal court. Good for entertainment value only.

So anyways, why is it so hard to accept- that a bunch of extremists on our side provoked a bunch of extremists on their side? Nobody is denying that it was a coordinated effort to attack embassies, and nobody is denying that the movie was the culprit for fueling the fire..

Spot on Kramer. A bunch of extremists who believe in invisible people in the sky riling up another bunch of extremists who believe in another invisible man in the sky. Here's an idea: let's let them all move to Mars and wipe each other out.

yet further proof of how muslim extremists and the muslim haters are just sitting and waiting for the next justification for their hatred. and an excuse to act out on it.

and round and round it goes. where it stops no one...is likely to ever see.

Uh Huh SURE! I mean no disrespect to you Kramer. I'm not buying that story not for a second! I KNEW THIS WAS COMING! If you believe that story I have a bridge I would like to sell ya!

Umm.. really? The new york times is now reporting it, ABC news is finally admitting that 'all was not as it seemed', the mass media in general is now being forced by proxy to report report something closer to the truth (that supports the facts I've provided)- at what point will you admit to yourself that it really was an intentional incitement- when fox news reports the same?

I wouldn't hold my breath personally waiting for fox news, but hey, they won the right to repeat lies and call it news in federal court. Good for entertainment value only.

So anyways, why is it so hard to accept- that a bunch of extremists on our side provoked a bunch of extremists on their side? Nobody is denying that it was a coordinated effort to attack embassies, and nobody is denying that the movie was the culprit for fueling the fire..

If it wasn't true they couldn't put it on the internet! "they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true" just the Obama media spoon feeding you more HYPE! Yeah RRrrrrriiiiiigghht!

This article underlines a lot of interesting points, the primary one being young Arabs don't understand freedom yet; dissent is an important component of freedom. It's going to take a couple of generations before that reactionary mindset is abandoned.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/14/opinion/h ... ?hpt=hp_t2

If it wasn't true they couldn't put it on the internet! "they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true" just the Obama media spoon feeding you more HYPE! Yeah RRrrrrriiiiiigghht!

Well I guess then it's a question of where we get our information, and the credibility of it?

I think it's safe to say that the mass media in general has been taken over by propagandists. They still report major events, but commonly leave out important information (lies of omission), or frame the report in a way that leads a person to draw inaccurate conclusions.

I brought up fox news because they have a noteworthy tendency to report lies in a very obvious, yet effective way, for instance, fox news caster says "some people say ________"

Let's frame that- "some people say that Obama is a fundamentalist muslim, that he burned the american flag and then pissed on it to extinguish the flames".

So.. they didn't report that as news, they reported it as a rumor, without ever stating it as a news, as creditworthy, or even who stated it. It's about the most dishonest level of journalism that exists, outside of outright police-state controlled media. All the news stations, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC - they all do it.. I used fox as an example simply because they do it that much more than the others.

So ..
Where to get your facts? Peer-reviewed sites are far and few between but they do exist- factcheck.org is probably the most common. There are also non-partisan independent media sites NOT owned by the 1%, here's a good list-

http://www.independent.co.uk/
http://therealnews.com/t2/
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml
http://www.alternet.org/

Jeff, you aren't an idiot, you make decisions based on the information at hand. Just give it a try- open your mind and think outside the box, look at things from other perspectives, or whatever.

I'm not here to put anyone down for their views, I'm on a mission- To inform and unite. It's like we all live in the matrix anymore.. being fed one thing and told another- living in an alternate reality where the truth is shrouded in a veil of bullshit. The truth is out there, you only need to sit there and read it. Beware journalism that "leads" you to your conclusions- make your own.

If it wasn't true they couldn't put it on the internet! "they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true" just the Obama media spoon feeding you more HYPE! Yeah RRrrrrriiiiiigghht!

Well I guess then it's a question of where we get our information, and the credibility of it?

I think it's safe to say that the mass media in general has been taken over by propagandists. They still report major events, but commonly leave out important information (lies of omission), or frame the report in a way that leads a person to draw inaccurate conclusions.

I brought up fox news because they have a noteworthy tendency to report lies in a very obvious, yet effective way, for instance, fox news caster says "some people say ________"

Let's frame that- "some people say that Obama is a fundamentalist muslim, that he burned the american flag and then pissed on it to extinguish the flames".

So.. they didn't report that as news, they reported it as a rumor, without ever stating it as a news, as creditworthy, or even who stated it. It's about the most dishonest level of journalism that exists, outside of outright police-state controlled media. All the news stations, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC - they all do it.. I used fox as an example simply because they do it that much more than the others.

So ..
Where to get your facts? Peer-reviewed sites are far and few between but they do exist- factcheck.org is probably the most common. There are also non-partisan independent media sites NOT owned by the 1%, here's a good list-

http://www.independent.co.uk/
http://therealnews.com/t2/
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml
http://www.alternet.org/

Jeff, you aren't an idiot, you make decisions based on the information at hand. Just give it a try- open your mind and think outside the box, look at things from other perspectives, or whatever.

I'm not here to put anyone down for their views, I'm on a mission- To inform and unite. It's like we all live in the matrix anymore.. being fed one thing and told another- living in an alternate reality where the truth is shrouded in a veil of bullshit. The truth is out there, you only need to sit there and read it. Beware journalism that "leads" you to your conclusions- make your own.

Yeah its like the other day when you got your statistics and posted them. Then I got some statistics but they were to conservative. You suggested I get my statistics from a site that was more liberal leaning! You are a very smart guy Kramer I am not being facetious when I say WAY smarter than me! I work at a MAJOR university and deal with profs. all day long. I'll hear two of them talking about their area of expertise. Hell they may as well be speaking French. Thats how much smarter these guys are than me. Having said that I'll say in the language of a Texan "son there's more than one kind of smart"!

Actually, I suggested you get your statistics from a site that wasn't leaning either way, or in your case specifically, I suggested you NOT get your facts from such a biased source.

These conversations have zero, absolutely zero, to do with 'smarts'. I'm no smarter than the average american. I do, however, have a nice capacity to view things from multiple points of view as well as I extremely cynical, to the point that I even questions my own thoughts and beliefs on a regular basis.

I'm one of the few people who has argued on political forums and allowed someone else's perspectives to sink in and openly admit mine were wrong or inaccurate. Duel with me long enough and I'm sure you will see that.

What this IS about- is being informed, by the best means possible, which equates to not just allowing a single source of information to make your conclusions for you, or in most cases, lead you to their conclusions as if they were your own (there's been studies on that side of psychology, that have startling results by the way); but to take it upon yourself to identify the best valid sources of information and compare them to each other.

When you do, you will find that being better informed is in it's own way, incredibly liberating mentally.

Give it a shot, whatcha got to lose? I gave you some really great links- check them out and make up your own mind

is nobody paying attention to the recent facts brought about by the independent media??

It's akin to yelling "fire" in a theater or "gun" in an airport. These people could be charged too, as "inciting a riot" is illegal and intent can be proven.

What's also interesting is how many people associated with that video are hiding in the shadows.. they KNOW what they did and the reaction it would provoke.

Ummm, not exactly Kramer. If porn is protected by the first amendment (and it is) then this stupid film certainly is also. I don't condone or appreciate the making of this film but under our constitution I will defend their right to make it. One of the costs of true freedom is that sometimes terribly offensive things will be said or produced. There is a lot of Rap and Death Metal music I find equally offensive. Welcome to the USA. Arabs have never lived under freedom and don't understand this. If they don't like it, they probably shouldn't watch it. I agree that keeping informed is important, but a little knowledge mixed with rumor, innuendo, and gossip can be a dangerous thing. Looking for the boogeyman in every shadow, food, bank, business, chemical, medication, water, and film is just simple paranoia.


Make a sick joke about the Pope, pedophile priests, Christians, Jews, or the Irish and nobody gets hurt (unless you are drinking in an Irish pub). Make a joke about Mohammed and the Imams order a hit on your ass, load their weapons and buy a plane ticket to your city. Different rules for the game.

It's not ok to murder someone over a lousy film, book or cartoon... Or do you really think it is???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ja ... axe-attack
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eland.html

I too think there is more to this story, and I think they're provoking the US into war. Think about how many Europeans over the last decade have done books, cartoons and so on ridiculing Islam, they bitch and moan, order a jihad and the whole thing quiets down. Now one person does a film and it's "death to America" let's attack all the US embassies. Bullshit. This is higher up. A bunch of farmers are only going to go so far, but generally when you have riots of this nature staged throughout different cities, someone's bigger behind it, and no I don't think it's American. It can also be a diversion to enticing US to war with these little factions and Iran could possibly come out and do something stupid. I don't trust this, but then what do you do? You have to defend yourself, but it's like keep your eyes open. I wish I knew what the answer is, but . . .

Chaeya

...Chaeya ... your honesty is always a breath of fresh air on this thread. Your ability to openly admit you do not know in some cases only serves to reinforce your statements when you say that you in those cases do know.

Most agree that there is more behind all this stupidity. I do not personally believe it is Iranian, American or any specific country ... I believe it is all part of the declared Grand Plan carved into the Georgia Guidestones.

But we Vampires like to be kept in the Dark.

Ta Live Well Die Well

of course there is big movers behind this,
many people would love the power and riches that comes with being top dog.
many liberals believe if america would abdicate, that some how everyone would magically love each other.
bullshit.
if we fail to keep our chair, rest assured someone else's ass will be in it, and on the double quick.

maybe it is all about American hegemony.
well just wait till you get a wiff of Chinese hegemony, or better still Islamic hegemony, (well thats a stretch, I'm sure you will agree.)
as if the Russians and Chinese will give the Arabs or Persians anything but scraps once their done using them, if they let them live, which I doubt.

Actually, I suggested you get your statistics from a site that wasn't leaning either way, or in your case specifically, I suggested you NOT get your facts from such a biased source.

These conversations have zero, absolutely zero, to do with 'smarts'. I'm no smarter than the average american. I do, however, have a nice capacity to view things from multiple points of view as well as I extremely cynical, to the point that I even questions my own thoughts and beliefs on a regular basis.

I'm one of the few people who has argued on political forums and allowed someone else's perspectives to sink in and openly admit mine were wrong or inaccurate. Duel with me long enough and I'm sure you will see that.

What this IS about- is being informed, by the best means possible, which equates to not just allowing a single source of information to make your conclusions for you, or in most cases, lead you to their conclusions as if they were your own (there's been studies on that side of psychology, that have startling results by the way); but to take it upon yourself to identify the best valid sources of information and compare them to each other.

When you do, you will find that being better informed is in it's own way, incredibly liberating mentally.

Give it a shot, whatcha got to lose? I gave you some really great links- check them out and make up your own mind

I prefer to use common sense. I get my news from lots of different source. Mostly LIBERL media because thats what 95% of the news source's are. I also get it from conservative talk, Huffington post, CNN,CSPAN, various others. Common sense tells me where there is smoke there is fire. 2+2=4. Its real simple these people want to domininate the worlds religions! What gets me is how folks ridicule and chastise someone for using SIMPLE COMMON SENSE! Bottom line is they have you SNOWED brother. You just stick your head in the sand and pretend. You are not going to force me to do it though!