General Music Chat

Muslim terrorists strike on 9/11.

CTU terrorists strike on 10/11.

Muslims target everyone.

The CTU target our children.

Kramer I am trying to be nice and with all due respect you are a smart guy! You most definately live in a different reality than I do!
From this post I am getting the impression you think 9/11 is all Bush's fault and Obama is responsible for killing Bin Laden. Please clarify if I am putting words in your mouth or reading something into your meaning that you did NOT intend?

LOL no worries jeff. I give no credit or comdem bush or obama, they really have nothing to do with secret, covert operations like what I suggest.

I do believe bush was most likely told that the reports warning of terrorist plans to fly planes into buildings was not credible. In fact, I believe I read somewhere that is exactly what he was told.

Like I said, I was merely looking at the facts as we know them and making my own conclusions based on them. Its a fact those reports from the clinton administration existed and changed hands to the bush administration. It's a fact that the 9-11 commission purposefully did not review a lot of evidence that could have had a major impact on their conclusions. It's a fact that rummy, cheyney the CIA and DOD wanted a war with Iraq, and several testimonies are coming out of the major news organizations (former employees) openly admitting that they were pressured from the top levels to "sell" the wars.

Look at how much freedom and liberty we've lost since 9-11. In fact, we lost ALL of them.. they can legally black-bag you or me tomorrow, permanently detain us, with the bill of rights no longer applying to us, based solely on "suspicion", with zero oversight whatsoever. They can go through any of our records from medical to phone to email without warrants. They no longer need warrants to enter my home or take my home, or my wife and kids...

ALL of those freedoms, TAKEN, and in less than 12 years. That's gotta be some kind of record. And something that would never have been possible if not for the events of 9-11.

Do I feel safer?
No! In fact, I've never been so scared of my own government in my life.

Kramer I am trying to be nice and with all due respect you are a smart guy! You most definately live in a different reality than I do!
From this post I am getting the impression you think 9/11 is all Bush's fault and Obama is responsible for killing Bin Laden. Please clarify if I am putting words in your mouth or reading something into your meaning that you did NOT intend?

LOL no worries jeff. I give no credit or comdem bush or obama, they really have nothing to do with secret, covert operations like what I suggest.

I do believe bush was most likely told that the reports warning of terrorist plans to fly planes into buildings was not credible. In fact, I believe I read somewhere that is exactly what he was told.

Like I said, I was merely looking at the facts as we know them and making my own conclusions based on them. Its a fact those reports from the clinton administration existed and changed hands to the bush administration. It's a fact that the 9-11 commission purposefully did not review a lot of evidence that could have had a major impact on their conclusions. It's a fact that rummy, cheyney the CIA and DOD wanted a war with Iraq, and several testimonies are coming out of the major news organizations (former employees) openly admitting that they were pressured from the top levels to "sell" the wars.

Look at how much freedom and liberty we've lost since 9-11. In fact, we lost ALL of them.. they can legally black-bag you or me tomorrow, permanently detain us, with the bill of rights no longer applying to us, based solely on "suspicion", with zero oversight whatsoever. They can go through any of our records from medical to phone to email without warrants. They no longer need warrants to enter my home or take my home, or my wife and kids...

ALL of those freedoms, TAKEN, and in less than 12 years. That's gotta be some kind of record. And something that would never have been possible if not for the events of 9-11.

Do I feel safer?
No! In fact, I've never been so scared of my own government in my life.

It is also a fact that at one time during the Clinton administration the military had Bin Laden in their crosshairs and could have taken him out. Clinton wouldn't let them do it! Had that happened all this conspiracy stuff wouldn't be. I agree with you about all the lost rights during the last decade.

"Do I feel safer?
No! In fact, I've never been so scared of my own government in my life."

And rightly so, but do not loose track of the prize. That being your freedom and the freedom of Americas children.

This regime leader has already unlawfully legislated against the Constitution, the Supreme Court, and Congress. He has run up our debt, killed our energy production, made friends with our enemies and alienated our friends in his first term. He has welcomed people to break our immigration laws and has all but imported people to take American jobs when times are tough for the American worker. You should worry that he may get a second term and trade off your freedom to the UN. He is a Socialist or Marxist big government politician. He shows an outward hatred for America and trashes it where ever he goes in this world. I could not even possibly list all the lawlessness that he is responsible for directly or those acts against Americans that he has put into motion against the American way of life through his Czars and other tools of destruction.

And some fools still want to vote for this destroyer of their freedom. He is out to destroy your way of life. It doesn't matter if you are wealthy or poor... he is after you.

Slacker, I could not agree more! Unfortunately they will by the spoon fed media version that he is only after those evil rich folks!

....Haley...What Krammer has stated, that is his opinion, I believe has more credibility than many of the others out there. You have seen what a bufoon Baby Bush was and is so it is obvious that he is not capable of pulling any strings or making any decisions on his own. I urge you to think about it a bit more and possibly check out a few of the "known" facts that Krammer bases his opinion on. Also what Slacker states so well is very relevant and I believe true as well. They both have put forward there answers and views to you in a very respectful way so you should be able to continue being nice. None of it is a personal attack at all.

The worn out phrase Conspiracy theorist continues to be used as some illogical defense when one does not wish to properly address any issues that result from critical thought. It is childish and inadequate and for any who use it ...clearly indicates that they have ceased any independent thought processes . Many are actually reduced to the level of giggling idiots when the term is bandied about. Tis very sad. What PaperDog said was very poignant and well stated.

Ta

....Haley...What Krammer has stated, that is his opinion, I believe has more credibility than many of the others out there. You have seen what a bufoon Baby Bush was and is so it is obvious that he is not capable of pulling any strings or making any decisions on his own. I urge you to think about it a bit more and possibly check out a few of the "known" facts that Krammer bases his opinion on. Also what Slacker states so well is very relevant and I believe true as well. They both have put forward there answers and views to you in a very respectful way so you should be able to continue being nice. None of it is a personal attack at all.

The worn out phrase Conspiracy theorist continues to be used as some illogical defense when one does not wish to properly address any issues that result from critical thought. It is childish and inadequate and for any who use it ...clearly indicates that they have ceased any independent thought processes . Many are actually reduced to the level of giggling idiots when the term is bandied about. Tis very sad. What PaperDog said was very poignant and well stated.

Ta

Do you dis agree that the military had Bin Ladin in their crosshairs and Clinton wouldn't give the go ahead? All I was saying if they had killed him then we would not be having some or most of this conversation. Of course thats easy for me to say in hindsight? I certainly meant no disrespect to any one with that comment!

...There is really only ever on Truth . There are many ideas and versions of speculation regarding 9/11 but there is only one Truth. I certainly do not know it and I believe neither does anyone here on the Forum but we all agree it was a tragic and uneccesary loss of life. Personally I believe it was a massive Sacrifice but ....

Ta

I think you and I think along the same lines. When you saw the buildings go down, did you say to yourself that they shouldn't have went down that way? But you can't really say anything, you just suffered it in silence.

Chaeya

...There is really only ever on Truth . There are many ideas and versions of speculation regarding 9/11 but there is only one Truth. I certainly do not know it and I believe neither does anyone here on the Forum but we all agree it was a tragic and uneccesary loss of life. Personally I believe it was a massive Sacrifice but ....

Ta

I believe a lot of things about 9/11, but I based my opinions all on 'known' facts.

I believe our leaders "let" it happen, full well knowing it was going to happen. There were security briefings, warnings from the clinton administration, and a pilot school where instructors reported directly to the FBI about middle eastern men taking lessons to fly and skipping the landing coursework. The signs were all there, and were ignored. I believe it was not out of any disbelief or cockiness that it couldn't happen, rather I believe they full well knew if it were allowed to happen, that they could takeover the country and our freedoms in the name of revenge. They could finally go back to iraq. It's pretty obvious that it was their plan all along- afghanistan was just a stepping stone. They had zero real interest in actually killing bin laden, as was obvious by the efforts, and the obvious flaw of telling the media weeks in advance that we were coming to get him.. giving him an incredible window of time to disappear.

The 9-11 commission was also extremely suspect in that they left out over 100 important facts and incidents in their evidence and reports; and then drew conclusions based on the incomplete data. It no wonder their conclusions reeked of "cover-up".

As far as "truthers" go.. I dunno, many of them are just spouting conspiracies based on unverified facts and lots of opinions of supposed specialists in everythign from plumbers to engineers, much of it not verified or even verifyable, or highly contradicted among different experts. It sucks that industry experts can't agree on much of it, as the rest of us are just left scratching our heads.

You're not that far off base. And I agree, the rabbit hole goes way beyond Bush who I believe was kept in a state of "plausible deniability." As far as who, what, how, I don't know and I don't think we'll ever find out. It's too cloaked. But I do feel it was about control and money, how so many profited from going into Iraq.

http://www.911truth.org/

Chaeya

...Haley ... I honestly have no idea. The entire Bin Laden thing is so screwed up with "conflicts" dependent upon whom one speaks. Bin Laden and Baby Bush were friends from childhood. The whole story of "Bin Laden's Death" is one of the most despicable displays of "US government" in recent history. If you use "the Krammer Method" regarding 9[11 and just write down on several pieces of paper "the known facts" then you quickly realize that what Obama, Hillary,Bush and Clinton do is absolute "Lie Speak" along with Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Chaeya puts it very simply and eloquently .... just watch the two buildings and then BLDG 7 ???? Why did BLDG 7 go down since it was far from the other two and was not hit by a "plane" ? The lies do not fit with the facts with any of it. They were all controlled demolitions. The facts are plain and simple and partially out now despite the "US Government". The Victims of this Great Sacrifice number well past the causalties of that day. The handling of the Victims is very telling regarding the responsibility of the US gov't. It is as they always do to the Indians, the troops and the people.

Haley you are a Gentleman and Chaeya is a Lady ... both inspirational.

Ta Live Well Die Well

Dear Lord I can't believe it but I'm
agreeing with Slacker and Vampier.

We will never know the whole truth
about 9-11, or Bin Laden's death.

Perhaps they're just distractions by the
ruling powers?

Watch this, you'll be better for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a7BnXyFZig

Thanks Zip.
Vamp, B7 came down from the tremendous explosive forces of the towers collapse.
However if you want to focus on lies, Flight 800 is a perfect example.

Modern airliners do not explode into the shreds that occurred off LI.

Only a rocket launched missile could have caused that sort of damage.

Somebody screwed up big time and to this day their is no accountability.

When are we going to start holding our elected leaders accountable?

What is there some secret code that they are better than us?

I'm a pain in the ass,,,, cause I think FREEDOM FOR ALL!!!!


(that requires tremendous personal responsibility)

As far as conspiracy theory..... It has stopped being theory long ago. There is far too much credible data available to deny it. All you have to do is open your eyes. There is but one reason that people do not see the truth, and that is that they are not given to see it.

I don't know,,,, Slack,,,, everyone thinks it still ok to give them 1.3 billion a year to maintain stability in the region.


I think that could buy a lot of guns and bullets for every living American and give every illegal a fair shot at a green card.

That was an ACT OF WAR!

Blow them to hell and and take over the oil fields. No govt will ever kill innocent ambassadors again.