General Music Chat

Vinny all you do is prove what a bullshit artist you are.

I can't believe you posted a personal attack like that.

You are so selfish, that when anyone shares their views,,, you simply go out your way to take them down.

Now lets get into a shouting match,,, You shout moron, then I shout moron.

Sorry I know this game is complicated, Maybe one of your friends can explain it.

I think your game has already been pretty well explained ...

Truth always proves out.
Half the the time I have allowed you to prove your own problems.
You have succeeded in that.

Ready,,, MORON!

Truth always proves out.
Half the the time I have allowed you to prove your own problems.
You have succeeded in that.

Ready,,, MORON!

flubber flubber flubber

well the world will always NEED janitors, garbagemen, cashiers at the supermarket, dishwashers, factory line workers... Let's face it, these are your blue-collar workers of america, and while once they were paid a liveable wage, today they are mostly not.

most of them never claimed to expect to live in a McMansion while being a dishwasher as far as I know. But I remember even back in 1982, you could be a full-time dishwasher and be able to at least afford a 1BR studio apartment and begin working your way up in life.

This is far from true today. First off, not everyone is capable of being more than that.. just because someone doesn't have the capacity to get a desk job and make buttloads of $$ doesn't mean they don't have the right to earn at least a meager living. Knowing that, combined with knowing that we NEED people to do those jobs really makes the idea of "living wage" a necessity.

It's no secret that the upper management in companies now make well over 100 times the lowest paid employee in the company, whereas in 1955, it was sometimes only 10 times as much. The disparity is widening (aka class warefare) and it's not working out too well for the dishwasher.

But here's the real kicker- it affects everyone in the middle class as well. For instance a skilled job like A/C repairman, computer programmer / network admin, graphic artist, nurse, teacher... all middle class jobs, are also being drug downwards by the same disparity.

I'm a network admin by day, and yet I don't make nearly as much $$ as I did doing the same job 15 years ago. In fact, I make about half of what I made in 1999. Every passing year, the wage for my position goes down for new job openings. At some point, every company will purge the higher paid guys like me to bring in cheaper guys (like me.. who were let go by a different company). It's happening across the board in most middle class jobs. That's the new corporate mentality- and it strongly equates to class warfare and greed. If anyone thinks this is just a passing phase, you've been duped.

So getting back to the politic side of it- we are in the top 5 wealthiest nations in the world, yet almost 47 million citizens are living below the poverty line. What does that mean? A nation of wealthy people with lots of servants. Can anyone honestly argue that these people living in poverty have much if any chance to overcome it? Historically the answer is no. The few exceptions never change the general rule. The only thing that helped people get out of poverty were social politics and labor unions. Two things entirely missing from our political spectrum today. It's no secret why more and more people every day are falling victim to poverty.

Here's an article that spells out current day poverty:
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/07/23-2

Here's an interview with some insight on why the poor keep getting poorer:
http://www.alternet.org/books/timothy-n ... sappearing

And have any of you watched that movie about WalMart? In the first 10 minutes, they explain in very simple terms why low wages and no benefits not only hurts the workers, but the economy as a whole. Profit to people who don't even NEED any more money takes ruthless precedence over social responsibilities. We are all part of a society and responsible for it's health, but for every person like me who tries to do what is best for society, there's dozens of others who are only doing what's best for themselves... damn the economy, the environment, and F the world.

well the world will always NEED janitors, garbagemen, cashiers at the supermarket, dishwashers, factory line workers... Let's face it, these are your blue-collar workers of america, and while once they were paid a liveable wage, today they are mostly not.

most of them never claimed to expect to live in a McMansion while being a dishwasher as far as I know. But I remember even back in 1982, you could be a full-time dishwasher and be able to at least afford a 1BR studio apartment and begin working your way up in life.

This is far from true today. First off, not everyone is capable of being more than that.. just because someone doesn't have the capacity to get a desk job and make buttloads of $$ doesn't mean they don't have the right to earn at least a meager living. Knowing that, combined with knowing that we NEED people to do those jobs really makes the idea of "living wage" a necessity.

It's no secret that the upper management in companies now make well over 100 times the lowest paid employee in the company, whereas in 1955, it was sometimes only 10 times as much. The disparity is widening (aka class warefare) and it's not working out too well for the dishwasher.

But here's the real kicker- it affects everyone in the middle class as well. For instance a skilled job like A/C repairman, computer programmer / network admin, graphic artist, nurse, teacher... all middle class jobs, are also being drug downwards by the same disparity.

I'm a network admin by day, and yet I don't make nearly as much $$ as I did doing the same job 15 years ago. In fact, I make about half of what I made in 1999. Every passing year, the wage for my position goes down for new job openings. At some point, every company will purge the higher paid guys like me to bring in cheaper guys (like me.. who were let go by a different company). It's happening across the board in most middle class jobs. That's the new corporate mentality- and it strongly equates to class warfare and greed. If anyone thinks this is just a passing phase, you've been duped.

So getting back to the politic side of it- we are in the top 5 wealthiest nations in the world, yet almost 47 million citizens are living below the poverty line. What does that mean? A nation of wealthy people with lots of servants. Can anyone honestly argue that these people living in poverty have much if any chance to overcome it? Historically the answer is no. The few exceptions never change the general rule. The only thing that helped people get out of poverty were social politics and labor unions. Two things entirely missing from our political spectrum today. It's no secret why more and more people every day are falling victim to poverty.

Here's an article that spells out current day poverty:
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/07/23-2

Here's an interview with some insight on why the poor keep getting poorer:
http://www.alternet.org/books/timothy-n ... sappearing

And have any of you watched that movie about WalMart? In the first 10 minutes, they explain in very simple terms why low wages and no benefits not only hurts the workers, but the economy as a whole. Profit to people who don't even NEED any more money takes ruthless precedence over social responsibilities. We are all part of a society and responsible for it's health, but for every person like me who tries to do what is best for society, there's dozens of others who are only doing what's best for themselves... damn the economy, the environment, and F the world.

3 reasons why IMO blue collar workers are making less these days. Oh and by the way, I am a blue collar worker!

1) Over reaching government regulation=How can american companies compete with the U.S. government breathing down their necks causing their operating cost to skyrocket to the point of operating at a loss!
2) Unreasonable taxation by the good ole U.S. Gubment=causing companies to move out of the country, another state (Texas) or hire illegal aliens.
3) Corporate greed=How dare them evil U.S. companies want to turn a profit!

If you have never been in business for yourself, it is REAL EASY to get up on your soapbox and talk about the greedy corporations that work to earn a profit! Having been in business and failed I can tell you first hand. "Nothing and I mean Nothing will put you out of business faster than NOT turning a profit and unfair competition!

I'm sure we all could use more than we have but sometimes it seems like
everyone here lives hand to mouth. The talk is either about those that have too much or those that have nothing. I have what I need and I think most of you do too.
The problems that exist now will always exist to some degree.

Vote your gut and just get-r-done.

Kiss yer wife, hold yer child and pet your dog.[/b]

3 reasons why IMO blue collar workers are making less these days. Oh and by the way, I am a blue collar worker!

1) Over reaching government regulation=How can american companies compete with the U.S. government breathing down their necks causing their operating cost to skyrocket to the point of operating at a loss!
2) Unreasonable taxation by the good ole U.S. Gubment=causing companies to move out of the country, another state (Texas) or hire illegal aliens.
3) Corporate greed=How dare them evil U.S. companies want to turn a profit!

If you have never been in business for yourself, it is REAL EASY to get up on your soapbox and talk about the greedy corporations that work to earn a profit! Having been in business and failed I can tell you first hand. "Nothing and I mean Nothing will put you out of business faster than NOT turning a profit and unfair competition!

1) We have far less regulation in every corporate sector than we did 40 years ago. The decline of the blue-collar worker has coincided perfectly with the de-regulations over this time. BP oil gave us a very strong example recently of why regulations exist and what happens when you ignore them. However- they are also a prime example of how corporations have no problem ignoring the regulations that do exist simply because the profit will always far exceed the punishment. Even big pharma knows this, which is why they ignore regulations and kill people with experimental drugs and settle lawsuits ... the payout of the lawsuit is simply a cost of doing business.. the people who die in the process are just there to play their part and die. same with coal miners. The list goes on and on.

2) companies also pay FAR less taxes than they did 40 years ago. Even far less then that they paid 40 years before that. Companies never had it any easier, and the reason given for those tax breaks? YES, to create jobs.. only problem with that is they created jobs in india for $2/hour. Greed needs to be kept in check or it runs rampant and doesn't care who it hurts. This is thousands of years of human history and it's never once changed.

3) Profit is fine, but how much is enough? Our healthcare system got jacked over the last 40 years also, and it's a matter of fact that now 2 out of every three dollars spent by the "consumer" on healthcare go straight to the stockholders as dividends. pure profit. Social commodities should not even be for profit, much less 66 points of profit, that's extremely obscene, especially when people who buy these junk insurance plans can't even afford to use them. And when we stand up and say "NO" we aren't going to buy this sh*t anymore, they just legislate forced participation with zero regulations on how much they are allowed to charge people.

Good points Kramer. Speaking of big pharma, I for one am sick of seeing ads for drugs on TV that use the majority of the time for disclaimers. Let the doctors prescribe what they see fit, don't try to turn the patient into a drug consumer, and use the millions of dollars that would have been spent on ads to lower the cost of medicine.

yep. very good points there kramer. bbbbbbut don't you know...."corporations are people too!"?

Thats funny how we view corporations like they are just a machine or something, when they do have people running them.

Funny side note I got sued, well my company got sued for reclaiming something that was ours, maybe it was within the law maybe not, but when we got to court, the suit was against my little company, a corp. The judge threw it out saying that the corp wouldnt come out and reclaim something, somebody would, but not the corp itself, so I guess that judgement kinda shoots a hole in the corporation are people too idea.

You got it right Paperdog, all those who don't
have what thet want whine about those who do,
when they should get out there and make changes
in their own life to achieve higher pay if that's what
they desire. To many whiney crybabys, who don't
want to work, and envious of those who did work
for what they got.

You got it right Paperdog, all those who don't
have what thet want whine about those who do,
when they should get out there and make changes
in their own life to achieve higher pay if that's what
they desire. To many whiney crybabys, who don't
want to work, and envious of those who did work
for what they got.

So exactly what rate of unemployment does whining turn to valid dissent?

At what rate of minimum pay does whining turn to dissent?

Most wealthy people today didn't work for it, they inherited it, like mr romney.. his dad was a true businessman, who cared about his employees, his legacy, and his kid is just a greedy snot-nosed a-hole who has spent most of his life gaming a system that takes companies and milks them for everything they have, then leaves them to die. Here's some good reading on that subject.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/m ... houldnt-be

So once you've read that, let me know exactly why you believe the folks at KB Toys are "whiners".

Kramer I'm not going to read the article, but the guy at KB Toys
took the job, nobody forced him.

I've been self employed most of my life and so really don't
know much about unemployment, but we all make are choices
that we have to live with. I'm glad people work at KB Toys because
I love to take my Grandson to the toy stores and buy him stuff,
regularly, he's mine and I'm spoiling him, but I'm also teaching
him how to be a independant busineesman at 8 years old, he's
becoming quite the salesman, and wants to work harder than I
do.

People have to make their own choices about pay and quality of life,
and then live with it, not whine about it. You can achieve anything
in this country if you try, look at a dumbass like me who has been
blessed so many times, but I worked for it everyday for many many
years.

3 reasons why IMO blue collar workers are making less these days. Oh and by the way, I am a blue collar worker!

1) Over reaching government regulation=How can american companies compete with the U.S. government breathing down their necks causing their operating cost to skyrocket to the point of operating at a loss!
2) Unreasonable taxation by the good ole U.S. Gubment=causing companies to move out of the country, another state (Texas) or hire illegal aliens.
3) Corporate greed=How dare them evil U.S. companies want to turn a profit!

If you have never been in business for yourself, it is REAL EASY to get up on your soapbox and talk about the greedy corporations that work to earn a profit! Having been in business and failed I can tell you first hand. "Nothing and I mean Nothing will put you out of business faster than NOT turning a profit and unfair competition!

1) We have far less regulation in every corporate sector than we did 40 years ago. The decline of the blue-collar worker has coincided perfectly with the de-regulations over this time. BP oil gave us a very strong example recently of why regulations exist and what happens when you ignore them. However- they are also a prime example of how corporations have no problem ignoring the regulations that do exist simply because the profit will always far exceed the punishment. Even big pharma knows this, which is why they ignore regulations and kill people with experimental drugs and settle lawsuits ... the payout of the lawsuit is simply a cost of doing business.. the people who die in the process are just there to play their part and die. same with coal miners. The list goes on and on.

2) companies also pay FAR less taxes than they did 40 years ago. Even far less then that they paid 40 years before that. Companies never had it any easier, and the reason given for those tax breaks? YES, to create jobs.. only problem with that is they created jobs in india for $2/hour. Greed needs to be kept in check or it runs rampant and doesn't care who it hurts. This is thousands of years of human history and it's never once changed.

3) Profit is fine, but how much is enough? Our healthcare system got jacked over the last 40 years also, and it's a matter of fact that now 2 out of every three dollars spent by the "consumer" on healthcare go straight to the stockholders as dividends. pure profit. Social commodities should not even be for profit, much less 66 points of profit, that's extremely obscene, especially when people who buy these junk insurance plans can't even afford to use them. And when we stand up and say "NO" we aren't going to buy this sh*t anymore, they just legislate forced participation with zero regulations on how much they are allowed to charge people.

Kramer with all due respect bro. you are living on a different planet! What the heck do you do for a living? Government regulation down? I have been in the construction biz. for 40 years and I have never seen the regulation in building codes and with OSHA, ADA, you have to have so many kinds of insurance to be in ANY business these days. Let alone Medical Mal-practice insurance. I am not trying to insult you when I say your points are outright LIES! Having said that please understand I am only debating not wanting to get personal but Geeze dude!