United States

Gibson guitars was raided twice last year by 30 SWAT-style agents of the Eric Holder Justice Department. They forced all employees to evacuate 3 factories just so they could see IF there was any "endangered" tree-wood.

They didn't find anything illegal but they still confiscated a lot of unique woods and hard-drives and whatever else they wanted to take.

Gibson has now spent 2.4 million in legal fees trying to get their stuff back, though there has been no charges filed.

They can't import wood from India until this is over, and they can't get their money back though they have done nothing wrong.



Musicians can not allow this kind of tyranny on a Les Paul guitar. This is what you get with an Obama administration. Tyranny and fascism.

What can you do but just talk about it?

It's just like all the political threads on the
forum, all talk no action.

Very sad though - that it comes to taking an American icon - employing and producing over many decades, art in products and music -- then setting fire to it.

Nice

Maybe sad, but the American gov't has grown so big
know one person or group can stand up to them for
very long.

We how are govt is out of money, so bad that they're
going to cut defense funding. You never here them talking
about cutting police funding, Why?

I believe that it's because defense funding protects us from
other nations, while police funding protects those in power.

Gibson settled with the gov and paid a fine. It's all good now. I heard something about it being related to Gibson corporate not paying off the DC lobbyists the way Fender did.

Fender uses alder, maple and rosewood for their guitars, while Gibson uses a lot of ebony and mahogany, species which are dwindling rapidly. If Gibson was smart they would start tree farms to grow their own instead of importing. Then again if they were smart they wouldn't have left Kalamazoo.

Gibson settled with the gov and paid a fine. It's all good now. I heard something about it being related to Gibson corporate not paying off the DC lobbyists the way Fender did.

Extortion is what drives the Demo-fascist machine.


But how can it be "all good" when they've spent 2 1/2 million dollars to clear themselves from a witch hunt that found nothing?

Gibson settled with the gov and paid a fine. It's all good now. I heard something about it being related to Gibson corporate not paying off the DC lobbyists the way Fender did.

Extortion is what drives the Demo-fascist machine.


But how can it be "all good" when they've spent 2 1/2 million dollars to clear themselves from a witch hunt that found nothing?

actually these raids were undertaken because Gibson was found to be playing fast and loose a few yrs earleir when they were found w several pallets of questionable indian rosewood that didn't have proper paperwork.



as for who was paying off whom. i don't know that. and neither do you.

According to what I read, that is correct. They had "undocumented" rosewood or some such that by the book was in fact illegal. No charges were filed because of the settlement.

It did seem on the surface to be an awful lot of man-power on the raids for such a simple matter as illegal non-drug related cargo.. I would assume a single investigator, and a standard fine would have been sufficient.

The idea that someone didn't get properly bribed is certainly a possibility, but who knows.. it's a broad assumption at best.

I think Gibson would be wise to start their own tree farms, as someone mentioned- It would certainly be better than relying on offshore companies and red tape, and even put a few jobs back in the USA.

According to what I read, that is correct. They had "undocumented" rosewood or some such that by the book was in fact illegal. No charges were filed because of the settlement.

It did seem on the surface to be an awful lot of man-power on the raids for such a simple matter as illegal non-drug related cargo.. I would assume a single investigator, and a standard fine would have been sufficient.

The idea that someone didn't get properly bribed is certainly a possibility, but who knows.. it's a broad assumption at best.

I think Gibson would be wise to start their own tree farms, as someone mentioned- It would certainly be better than relying on offshore companies and red tape, and even put a few jobs back in the USA.

That wood was "illegal" only in the US because of a trade agreement that was made with India that was to ensure that all woods imported from India was "worked by their craftsmen" And much of that wood that was purchased legally from India was purchased prior to the agreement between the two governments.

According to what I read, that is correct. They had "undocumented" rosewood or some such that by the book was in fact illegal. No charges were filed because of the settlement.

It did seem on the surface to be an awful lot of man-power on the raids for such a simple matter as illegal non-drug related cargo.. I would assume a single investigator, and a standard fine would have been sufficient.

The idea that someone didn't get properly bribed is certainly a possibility, but who knows.. it's a broad assumption at best.

I think Gibson would be wise to start their own tree farms, as someone mentioned- It would certainly be better than relying on offshore companies and red tape, and even put a few jobs back in the USA.

That wood was "illegal" only in the US because of a trade agreement that was made with India that was to ensure that all woods imported from India was "worked by their craftsmen" And much of that wood that was purchased legally from India was purchased prior to the agreement between the two governments.

Just one more example of our phukin Govt needling in our affairs. I am sick to death of our congress

So let me get this straight - they sent in dozens of wannabe storm troopers in SWAT costumes, armed to the teeth, abusing people and pointing guns at them - over two pallets of wood?

That really makes me proud to be an American...

Talbot

lol S/b a Warren Zevon tune...lol

Gibson settled with the gov and paid a fine. It's all good now. I heard something about it being related to Gibson corporate not paying off the DC lobbyists the way Fender did.

Extortion is what drives the Demo-fascist machine.


But how can it be "all good" when they've spent 2 1/2 million dollars to clear themselves from a witch hunt that found nothing?

actually these raids were undertaken because Gibson was found to be playing fast and loose a few yrs earleir when they were found w several pallets of questionable indian rosewood that didn't have proper paperwork.



as for who was paying off whom. i don't know that. and neither do you.

That's piss poor, no matter what the reasons for the gestapo to come in like that, especially when this so-called "Justice" Department is highly selective and racist in their enforcement of the law.

You're right that I don't know "who" was paying off whom, but I do know that Eric Holder is utterly dishonorable and entirely selective in enforcing the law. Someone is being bought.

Cronyism is the way the entire Obama Administration has been run since he was a Community Organizer of the Socialist New Party in Chicago.

That's piss poor, no matter what the reasons for the gestapo to come in like that, especially when this so-called "Justice" Department is highly selective and racist in their enforcement of the law.

"racist"? how so?

Cronyism is the way the entire Obama Administration has been run since he was a Community Organizer of the Socialist New Party in Chicago.

so, when HASN'T 'cronyism' been a part of the political landscape? when cheney was taking care of his buddies????

and yes it's true that the Socailist New Party in Chi did endorse and support obama....but other than a bunch of right wing bloggers w their own agenda and axes to grind ...show me where it's proven that obama was an "organizer" for SNP. FOX, Hannity, and Glen beck don't count.

seems to me Gibson was caught playing dirty. now, ya can argue the reasons behind the raid, call Holder out, speculate about payoffs, and call the agents gestapo.... but that doesn't change the the fact it sure looks gibson DID have some questionable sh*t going on.

like a lot of folks that ain't up in arms about gov't over-reach, well, that's good enough for me.