General Music Chat

and the way we could test your idea is to move the planned get together at Lake Pomme De Terre in Missouri to the southern border of Arizona near your place at a public campground, and we all provide acoustic instrument with no amplification or no gimmicks to embellish one's playing ability and go for broke.. we will see who the fakirs are and those truly with the "gift of the muse" .. blessed be ..

... Planet Guy ... I am afraid that "(most folks)" or "most people" or "many folks" are of really no concern to me in these aspects as they are of a more personal nature. Neither is being overly concerned and hampered by techy issues. I am not making light of your logical and relevant views and I do believein a "general" and "basic" way that what you state is important but.... it is not the main thrust of any creative process. "Good Money" ??? is there really such a thing ? I am certain that there are many out there who utterly support you and what you have stated so well. It has great relevance but ... it is not the "soul" only a trapping. I simply believe in another way.

Modern technology has allowed the nerdy, the techy and talentless to record, edit, overlay and "season" note by note their "creation". I prefer guitarists who can take a beatup acoustic missing an E and play a song, a vocalist who can sing unaccompanied, a drummer who can beat a tune on logs if nothing else is around, a keyboardist who can play an out of tune uncompressed old musty piano and compose something beautiful.

I was a Punk and you could never be. I have heard excellent compositions on radio shack cassettes. I have slept in my own vomit and that of others, been uncomfotable, dirty, exhausted and pissed for days and performed on top of municipal toilets. I have sang through guitar amps, megaphones and in stairwells in old English churches to capture an elusive "ancient echo" that no technical equipment can ever reproduce. My baby blanket was an old grey wool Wehrmacht blanket ... your was probably something blue and soft and velvety..

We are different and in our of how ... I actually have come to see we agree on many things. Everything you relate is relative and factual ... we merely have different priorities...the body with a Spirit ... the Spirit with a body ...

Of course everyone wants their music to sound the best it can etc. etc. be recorded on the best equipment etc. etc. and have it porchased with "good money" but ... let me put it this way ... if I had to pull out hair from my cat to make paint brushes to paint with I would.

There is the well worn debate of is photography Art ? I believe it to be and some do not ... but ... aphoto of a Masterpiece in oil is not itself a Masterpiece of photography. One can become lost in "tech issues" or blinded by science, so much so that they lose track of their original intent and expression.

Living in the US and having a credit card so not having to starve to buy that Marshal or imported Fender puts one in touch with reality and it's relationship to the creative process...what is important ...real Art and the essence of creativity ..."the Soul". If one has not experienced this then one can not possibly know. I have no idea of your history but you do seem to have "lived" a bit, exactly how sweaty and dirty I do not know so I make no judgement.

The goal is to create despite distractions of poor sound quality, inferior equipment purchased with "bad money", what most folks think and compression issues ... to me. If the "Soul" of the music is there then it shines through the mist of all this.

Live Performance is far superior to studio recording for me. Once again everything you say has some relevance but in the end ... for me ... we have different goals. I try to express my opinions as my own and devoid of other folks. I do not advocate any single "right opinion" ( these words together are rather laughable anyway) I like hearing yours as they are just as relevant as my own. I simply wish for you to recognize the relevance of mine in the same manner. But if you can not then so be it. Verbal sparring can always be entertaining and beneficial if it is done with someone like yourself. Ta

... The Relevance Of The Vampier!
Hey, that there might be a good movie title!
... oh, I mean, Of Relevance To The Vampier!
A wise man will never underestimate the relevance of the irrelevant nor the irrelevance of the relevant Ta Ta TaTa' Ta.

Great playing JCP, the melody seemed a little too disconnected for my taste. I like melodies that have more of a standard construction. It was a bit booming at higher levels, a little compression could take a little edge off the attack. Overall though it sounds good and was a masterful performance. Well done man.

...JCP61...It was truthfully not at all difficult as I was very interested to hear it and would never label it as unappealing ... but as Art yes indeed ... abstract Art perhaps ... nobody ever called Picasso an asshole. Ta

but the soul of the piece comes from the mist so brightly that any techy implications or whatevers simply fall and vanish into obscurity...where they belong. Ta

whether misty or musty...."techy implications" are most certainly relevant to (most) folks who present their music to others.

that's why people spend good money on the best equipment they can afford...and that's why they take the time to learn how to use them to best advantage.

i think most people do prefer to hear stuff that was recorded well and presents the music w it's best foot forward. otherwise we'd still be recording our music on a cheap $50 portable cassette deck w $.99 cassettes we bought from Radio Shack.

keep in mind that many folks consider the ART of capturing a performance an important and satisfying part of the whole creative process.

there's just no reason not to present your tunes in their best light.

if the goal is to clearly communicate ideas and feelings... it's best not to distract w poor sound quality.

listening to a piece of music that is overly compressed (esp when it's one solo instrument) is much like listening to someone who speaks in a monotone w no inflection or dynamics and a stone face showing zero emotion. the content of what they're saying might be great.....but it's not gonna be very engaging over a period of time.

that reminds me of a quote

any 99 cent flash light will light your way in the dead of night.
it takes a really expensive and brilliant one to light the way in the noon day sun.

I mean come on.
I have no idea what your using to listen to this
I'd be willing to bet it some Chinese computer speakers.
with set a cones that are no more than 1-1/4" in diam.
trying to tell me you have some clue as to the original production sound is really pointless.
if you had some forethought you would realize that you are being sold into a box, to match the tech currently being pushed.
the ear spam that passes for sound quality these days is beyond intolerable.
if you need a $2000.00 box to tell the difference between intervals
then i pity you.

pop in some lady gaga and give your tired ears a break.

[/quote]
Well what a pompous guy! If we should find your offering tedious, then we are only fit to appreciate Lady GaGa?
If ... what you were doing with the intervals was really that interesting or novel, OK but it sounded like new age schmaltz with some baroque flourishes. If instead of Lady GaGa may we go listen to Claude Debussy, Chopin, Mozart, Scriabin, or Deshevov http://youtu.be/vyb3Wvdn6as or Polovinkin http://youtu.be/-ifCmAJabds .... for starters,

Maybe you are using too much Dunning-Kruger effect.

I was a Punk and you could never be. I have heard excellent compositions on radio shack cassettes. I have slept in my own vomit and that of others, been uncomfotable, dirty, exhausted and pissed for days and performed on top of municipal toilets. I have sang through guitar amps, megaphones and in stairwells in old English churches to capture an elusive "ancient echo" that no technical equipment can ever reproduce. My baby blanket was an old grey wool Wehrmacht blanket ... your was probably something blue and soft and velvety..

Vampier, you never told us before , that you had a job with the CIA. ; )

... Planet Guy ... I am afraid that "(most folks)" or "most people" or "many folks" are of really no concern to me in these aspects as they are of a more personal nature.

well perhaps you might consider peppering your declarative, and seemingly dismissive statements, with an occasional "in my opinion..." or "the way i see it...."

i get it...you're above being distracted by poorly recorded music.

but before you go making too many assumptions w/o having the facts....guess what? some of my most beloved recordings of projects i've been involved in, and other bands known and not so known... were poorly recorded. the Who's "Live At Leeds" being an example that comes to mind.

but in this day and age when it's easy to use the modern equipment that you rail against...there's no excuse for not learning how to properly use your tools.

you might see the beauty, spirituality, and a bright light coming thru mist when a carpenter uses his screwdriver to pound nails. i see someone who doesn't know how to properly use the tools he has.

... being overly concerned and hampered by techy issues.

well, again YOU might see exercising proper use of compression as "being overly concerned and hampered by techy issues". i do not. it's an easy and straightforward task that takes 30 seconds and makes things more pleasing to most folks ears. (cue vamp to remind us all "i am not like most others")

i look at a simple task like that in exactly the same way i look at tuning my instrument. i do not consider putting my gtr or bass in proper tune as "being overly concerned or hampered by techy issues".

I am not making light of your logical and relevant views and I do believein a "general" and "basic" way that what you state is important but.... it is not the main thrust of any creative process.

no one said it WAS or should be the main thrust. i sure didn't.

Modern technology has allowed the nerdy, the techy and talentless to record, edit, overlay and "season" note by note their "creation".

i entirely agree. modern equipment has leveled the playing field. but that's not just a recent problem. I've read that Meat Loaf's "Bat Out Of Hell" was comped together w hundreds of vcl takes and punchins. sometimes w him singing and recording just one word at a time so it would be in tune. what was that 30 yrs ago? more?

I prefer guitarists who can take a beatup acoustic missing an E and play a song, a vocalist who can sing unaccompanied, a drummer who can beat a tune on logs if nothing else is around, a keyboardist who can play an out of tune uncompressed old musty piano and compose something beautiful.

funny...i didn't notice any of those elements when i listened to the tunes you have up on your profile page. instead i heard fairly well recorded songs that i assume were properly recorded in a studio, and were mixed and mastered w proper compression. so i have to call BS on that.

soooo...why did you approach things that way? no $50 cassette recorder and handful of Radio Shack cassettes available???

I was a Punk and you could never be.

are you sure about that. you know my history and background?

maybe making assumptions about others you don't know is "the last resort of defense", eh?

I have heard excellent compositions on radio shack cassettes.

yeah, but so whut? we all have. are YOU still recording that way? if not...pray tell why?

I have sang through guitar amps, megaphones and in stairwells in old English churches to capture an elusive "ancient echo" that no technical equipment can ever reproduce. My baby blanket was an old grey wool Wehrmacht blanket ... your was probably something blue and soft and velvety..

hey, at least you HAD a blanket! see that, look how it easy it is to play that silly game. i'm better than you because_____.
and vamp, every musician on here has at one time sang thru a gtr amp and tried low tech devices outside the "acceptable" norm.

We are different and in our of how ... I actually have come to see we agree on many things. Everything you relate is relative and factual ... we merely have different priorities...the body with a Spirit ... the Spirit with a body ...

no doubt there are things we can agree on. and different things that set off our own BS meters too. (-:

Of course everyone wants their music to sound the best it can

right. and in exactly that "spirit", that was why i offered the advice on compression...because i figure most folks are open to ways they can improve upon how their recorded music works. however my comments were not limited to the recording ..i also commented on the music. so you're interpretation of which i lend more weight to is exactly that...YOUR interpretion of my views.

" One can become lost in "tech issues" or blinded by science, so much so that they lose track of their original intent and expression.

of course one can. but who here is recommending that? paying ATTENTION to tech issues is not the same "getting lost in them". dig? it ain't a 'gateway drug'.

I have no idea of your history but you do seem to have "lived" a bit, exactly how sweaty and dirty I do not know so I make no judgement.

again i have to call BS. didn't you say this "I was a Punk and you could never be."

The goal is to create despite distractions of poor sound quality, inferior equipment purchased with "bad money", what most folks think and compression issues ... to me.

i disagree..the GOAL oughta to be to create the best sounding recording you can W THE EQUIPMENT YOUHAVE AVAILABLE.

now if all you can afford is $50 cassette recorder and a $10 mic that's another thing entirely. but you and i know "Almost Home" was NOT recorded on that kind of equipment. so why SETTLE for a poor recording when you don't have to?

there's nothing noble or spiritually enlightened about turning out a poor recording on equipment that's capable of more.

If the "Soul" of the music is there then it shines through the mist of all this.

well i can say the same thing about a bowl of chili i prepare you. one that has no seasonings....just a bunch of beans and some unseasoned meat. shouldn't the "soul" and spirituality of my intent come thru loud and clear. shouldn'tTHAT be enough?

Live Performance is far superior to studio recording for me. Once again everything you say has some relevance but in the end ... for me ... we have different goals. I try to express my opinions as my own and devoid of other folks. I do not advocate any single "right opinion" ( these words together are rather laughable anyway) I like hearing yours as they are just as relevant as my own. I simply wish for you to recognize the relevance of mine in the same manner. But if you can not then so be it. Verbal sparring can always be entertaining and beneficial if it is done with someone like yourself. Ta

well there ya go. i'm totally w you on the live vs. studio thing. yes different goals or maybe not...i won't pretend to know your's and you shouldn't assume to know mine.

as for our relevance..it's as i had quoted the all mighty and all knowing Boushki Boushki Boushk earlier "ALL things are relevant..or NONE are".

i do trecognize the relevance and commitment of your expressed views even if they do often send the needle on my BS meter into the red!

back atcha on the verbal sparring...and the civil discourse and keeping the shots above the belt is appreciated as well.

I was a Punk and you could never be. I have heard excellent compositions on radio shack cassettes. I have slept in my own vomit and that of others, been uncomfotable, dirty, exhausted and pissed for days and performed on top of municipal toilets. I have sang through guitar amps, megaphones and in stairwells in old English churches to capture an elusive "ancient echo" that no technical equipment can ever reproduce. My baby blanket was an old grey wool Wehrmacht blanket ... your was probably something blue and soft and velvety..

Vampier, you never told us before , that you had a job with the CIA. ; )

Awesome, Paperdog!

but the soul of the piece comes from the mist so brightly that any techy implications or whatevers simply fall and vanish into obscurity...where they belong. Ta

whether misty or musty...."techy implications" are most certainly relevant to (most) folks who present their music to others.

that's why people spend good money on the best equipment they can afford...and that's why they take the time to learn how to use them to best advantage.

i think most people do prefer to hear stuff that was recorded well and presents the music w it's best foot forward. otherwise we'd still be recording our music on a cheap $50 portable cassette deck w $.99 cassettes we bought from Radio Shack.

keep in mind that many folks consider the ART of capturing a performance an important and satisfying part of the whole creative process.

there's just no reason not to present your tunes in their best light.

if the goal is to clearly communicate ideas and feelings... it's best not to distract w poor sound quality.

listening to a piece of music that is overly compressed (esp when it's one solo instrument) is much like listening to someone who speaks in a monotone w no inflection or dynamics and a stone face showing zero emotion. the content of what they're saying might be great.....but it's not gonna be very engaging over a period of time.

that reminds me of a quote

any 99 cent flash light will light your way in the dead of night.
it takes a really expensive and brilliant one to light the way in the noon day sun.

I mean come on.
I have no idea what your using to listen to this
I'd be willing to bet it some Chinese computer speakers.
with set a cones that are no more than 1-1/4" in diam.
trying to tell me you have some clue as to the original production sound is really pointless.
if you had some forethought you would realize that you are being sold into a box, to match the tech currently being pushed.
the ear spam that passes for sound quality these days is beyond intolerable.
if you need a $2000.00 box to tell the difference between intervals
then i pity you.

pop in some lady gaga and give your tired ears a break.

sorry, no lady gaga in my collection. any other smart assed remarks you wanna toss out to prove you're a tool?

i listened to your poorly recorded and overcompressed opus thru a set of ALESIS Mk2 monitors being powered by a crown amp.

and trust me it probably would sound better (not good...but "better") thru the system you ASSume i listened to it on.

let's not forget you're the same person who queeried 'uh, duh...what do you mean compression...like when a WAV file is converted to and MP3????"

vinny gave you a good and easily understandable explaination but you're still confused. ah, well.

as to "trying to tell me you have some clue as to the original production sound is really pointless."

pointless to you because you felt attacked when offered advice on how to make your future recordings sound better.

your "original production sound" (whatever the frock that means) is only relevant and pertinent to YOU. as soon as you send something out in the world ...how it sounds in your bedroom isn't very relevant anymore.


don't be so damned defensive, i wasn't attacking you or your music (even if you did record the right and left hand parts seperately).

Keith Whitley "Tell Lorrie I Love Her" not the best quality recording for being out there in the world, but a great song nonetheless.. yeah, I would like my recordings to sound like Michael Jackson "Thriller" but sometimes just getting the essence of something on tape makes sense..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXFk9FKi6ik

...JCP61...It was truthfully not at all difficult as I was very interested to hear it and would never label it as unappealing ... but as Art yes indeed ... abstract Art perhaps ... nobody ever called Picasso an asshole. Ta

........ nobody ever called JCP61 a Picasso.

...PaperDog ... yeah but they fired me because I was far tooworgy in my secret reports and those reading them had to use a dictionary and even then they did not understand. Also I was acoustically incompetent when it came to placing bugs. And finally they discovered I had an unfriendly hidden agenda that failed to interface with their own. So I tried U.N.C.L/E. but Dr. Waverly had just retired.... so I had no choice but to become a social misfit, a disfranchised rebel who could not remember his cause ....a Punk ... amember of the new socioartistic movement that was sweeping the UK committing ultraviolence on posers and suits. It was then that I remembered who I was and my cause ...a simple farm lad from Nebraska who liked nature and Indians and Blood. Ta

Planet Guy ... great response. Now we simply must try to outnumber the thing we disagree upon with others that we do agree upon. I Love the Who and Quadrephinia was one of the greatest albums of all time I think.

The recordings you heard of mine were done in one take, in Theatre Vampier which was an old 5 storey grain mixing mill in Petaluma Ca. Big wooden beams and corregated steel. A Mac computer hooked into the line or snake with a few scattered seperate mics . The drummer was fully miked and these were mixed and sent out on the line to the computer. We had to experiment turning amps etc. but eventually got the sound we wanted which was something good enough to show up the mistakes and allow us to correct things improving our live sound. We would do a song and then listen quietly and then "discuss" it which came to be a unique process in itself.

I do not know if you ever heard of BlueJay Studios in Manchester England but I helped build it. I worked on many films in England including Quadrephenia. Breaking Glass Star Wars The Shining and many more. I have not even listened to your music yet so I will do that. I am interested now more than ever to do so. Ta

Planet Guy ... great response. Now we simply must try to outnumber the thing we disagree upon with others that we do agree upon. I Love the Who and Quadrephinia was one of the greatest albums of all time I think.

Quadrophenia....a huuuuuge album for me! see there ya go!

The recordings you heard of mine were done in one take, in Theatre Vampier which was an old 5 storey grain mixing mill in Petaluma Ca. Big wooden beams and corregated steel.

funny how what should be a "bad sounding room" often proves to be quite the opposite. well, as long as know how to use it to your advantages.

that might be topic for a thread..."where's the most interesting place you ever recorded?"

A Mac computer hooked into the line or snake with a few scattered seperate mics . The drummer was fully miked and these were mixed and sent out on the line to the computer. We had to experiment turning amps etc. but eventually got the sound we wanted which was something good enough to show up the mistakes and allow us to correct things improving our live sound. We would do a song and then listen quietly and then "discuss" it which came to be a unique process in itself.

but no gtrs w missing e strings??? i kid. i kid.

I have not even listened to your music yet so I will do that. I am interested now more than ever to do so.

well make sure ya do it on an empty stomach.

but the soul of the piece comes from the mist so brightly that any techy implications or whatevers simply fall and vanish into obscurity...where they belong. Ta

whether misty or musty...."techy implications" are most certainly relevant to (most) folks who present their music to others.

that's why people spend good money on the best equipment they can afford...and that's why they take the time to learn how to use them to best advantage.

i think most people do prefer to hear stuff that was recorded well and presents the music w it's best foot forward. otherwise we'd still be recording our music on a cheap $50 portable cassette deck w $.99 cassettes we bought from Radio Shack.

keep in mind that many folks consider the ART of capturing a performance an important and satisfying part of the whole creative process.

there's just no reason not to present your tunes in their best light.

if the goal is to clearly communicate ideas and feelings... it's best not to distract w poor sound quality.

listening to a piece of music that is overly compressed (esp when it's one solo instrument) is much like listening to someone who speaks in a monotone w no inflection or dynamics and a stone face showing zero emotion. the content of what they're saying might be great.....but it's not gonna be very engaging over a period of time.

that reminds me of a quote

any 99 cent flash light will light your way in the dead of night.
it takes a really expensive and brilliant one to light the way in the noon day sun.

I mean come on.
I have no idea what your using to listen to this
I'd be willing to bet it some Chinese computer speakers.
with set a cones that are no more than 1-1/4" in diam.
trying to tell me you have some clue as to the original production sound is really pointless.
if you had some forethought you would realize that you are being sold into a box, to match the tech currently being pushed.
the ear spam that passes for sound quality these days is beyond intolerable.
if you need a $2000.00 box to tell the difference between intervals
then i pity you.

pop in some lady gaga and give your tired ears a break.

sorry, no lady gaga in my collection. any other smart assed remarks you wanna toss out to prove you're a tool?

i listened to your poorly recorded and overcompressed opus thru a set of ALESIS Mk2 monitors being powered by a crown amp.

and trust me it probably would sound better (not good...but "better") thru the system you ASSume i listened to it on.

let's not forget you're the same person who queeried 'uh, duh...what do you mean compression...like when a WAV file is converted to and MP3????"

vinny gave you a good and easily understandable explaination but you're still confused. ah, well.

as to "trying to tell me you have some clue as to the original production sound is really pointless."

pointless to you because you felt attacked when offered advice on how to make your future recordings sound better.

your "original production sound" (whatever the frock that means) is only relevant and pertinent to YOU. as soon as you send something out in the world ...how it sounds in your bedroom isn't very relevant anymore.


don't be so damned defensive, i wasn't attacking you or your music (even if you did record the right and left hand parts seperately).

another moron.................