General Music Chat

We had a guy who ran sound for us for a couple of years, the problem was that we play with a lot of dynamics at times, so when we would throttle back guess what? He would try to compensate and turn us up, so when we dynamically throttled back up the overall sound suffered.

I had to just get rid of him, in my bands case we are 3 piece with a singer, the main thing thruout a 4 hour gig is just making sure that our vocalist is on top of the music. The 3 of us out front are all wireless, so we kinda go out and check the sound ourselves thru the night. About all we ever change is our singers level, between the 3 of us checking it at different times, it stays pretty good all night.

Weve played together long enough now, that its not a competition to be heard between me and the bassist, if I go out front and hes too loud to my ears, I will go up to him and say go out front and see if your bass is too boomy, the same from him to me, we dont argue just kinda agree, cause the overall sound is all that matters in the end. Its not about me being louder or him, its all about the balance.

There are nights where he and I go to the back of the room and just look at each other and say yeah, thats what its supposed to sound like.

Honestly at times, since I play thru a 4x12 cab, when Im standing in front of it, I want to turn it up, but I know these days that its plenty loud out front.

Its just experience, and being considerate of the other musicians.

Most young bands I see dont get it. SOmeone is always way loud, and it mess's the whole thing for me.

We have a system that is probably way to big for most of the rooms we play in, we only run at about 60% of what the system will do, having all this extra headroom, helps to keep the sound clean.

I'd be curious to know how many bands get "soundmen" who are basically friends of the band, and they just need someone to watch over it, in general, and expect the person to have ears for the job.

Even musicians cannot always tell when things are balanced. I remember boosting someone in the band just so they would hear how unbalanced it was and ask to be turned down to hear everyone else. The person never did. Sounded fine to their ears.

I remember going to a Dennis Chambers clinic in Nashville. The Pearl Rep spent all this time talking about Chambers' drums. Dennis comes out and begins to play and the drums sounded terrible. No attack at all. I could not figure out what the sound guy was hearing.

I've heard bands where the bass was so loud and dominating nothing else could be distinguished. Ruins everything.

Maybe it's the sound engineers whose ears are shot.

Amen to your last sentence! I have a friend that knows sound VERY WELL! he has a state of the art sound system 20K just for the speakers! People comment all the time about how our sound is cd quality! I am talking other musicians! I have a pretty nice p.a. just sitting in the trailer in the garage. I haven't used it for 3 years. Finally my friend couldn't make gigs so I started using it when he couldn't be there. It sounds great. That same friend trained my wife to run sound because he is a musician and started playing with us about 5 years ago. Now my wife complains about how he mixes LOL! She says he likes the drums a little too much! Our drummer doesn't complain though. My point is, it is all subjective and a lot depends on where you are sitting in the crowd! Getting perfectly eq to every seat in the house is a fisical impossibility for the most part! If you don't believe me next time you go see a band walk around the room especially if they mike everything and run thru the console! Those speakers the way most folks set them up only cover AT BEST 140 degrees across the front of the stage (For top speakers) the subs travel differently around a room! That leaves 20 degree on each side of the stage muddy only hearing the subs!

Most of the audience are not musicians and would not know a clean sound if it bit them in the ass.

We do our best to sound check from the floor via wireless mics and instruments. We also usually have some of our "favorite" fans around early on whom help with making sure the vox are clearly distinguishable.

And we do our own sound.
One of the benefits of being a small local band. I've had a few "sound men" get upset when I declined their services. I like to tell them "this way I have no one to blame but myself".

I will be investigating the use of some side address mics and micing the drums by "zone".
I feel we get good overall ambient sound playing live but recording is a bitch.

George you might look up CAD mics, I got a pair, they are tiny and we fly two over our drummer, weve played with the positions and live they do a great job of capturing the toms and cymbals without micing everything, they are condensors and I got them for $50 each, I think they even came with the little mic clips they require, they do need phantom power to work, but they seem to capture the whole drum area from the top.

George you might look up CAD mics, I got a pair, they are tiny and we fly two over our drummer, weve played with the positions and live they do a great job of capturing the toms and cymbals without micing everything, they are condensors and I got them for $50 each, I think they even came with the little mic clips they require, they do need phantom power to work, but they seem to capture the whole drum area from the top.

Good point and micing is crucial

The problem with my country (UK) they Mic everything with the ubiquitous SM57's and SM58's... great feedback rejection ...but they are nearly deaf and if you have backing - sax - flute and other acoustic instruments - they tend to ignore simple physics.

also - something like a harmonica or sax is "narrow band" not "wide band" - so they dont know that narrow band mics with even more rejection exists.

also - they tend to miss the fact that a Sax solo will blow the f***ing roof off ...so a stack of compressor-gate-limiters are a useful tool to control your variables that dont follow the same physics as vocals

also - whilst a guy fronting the band may be able to go from Gregorian Chant Monk level to Tom Jones (having a incandescent rant) in 0.02 seconds - they forget to compensate for that and Mic/gate appropriately

also - huge diffence between male and female vocals - mic appropriately and understand their parametric is upper scale .
Whilst an SM58 or similar is good for a big male vocal ....Kate Bush may as well try singing into a house brick

also - not enough monitoring causes the band to force up front of house rig and rely more on backline, causing more acoustic disturbance and compromises

Thanks for the input fellows. Much to consider.

Yeah much good advice. Interesting stuff you have going on there 1so, good luck with your new album.

I'd be curious to know how many bands get "soundmen" who are basically friends of the band, and they just need someone to watch over it, in general, and expect the person to have ears for the job.

It depends on the venue. You can have your own sound tech work your show at some venues, but a majority of venues, you have to use the venue's employed sound tech. It's normal that your first performance on a new stage will have complications with mix and sound. It usually takes a couple of performances to know how to compensate for the venue's acoustic nuances. The more members or bigger the band, the harder it is to get a good balance. Most of the venues here will ask for a CD or demo before your show so they can match the best possible Sound Tech for your band.