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#177412 by JCP61
Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:20 am
Dane Ellis Allen wrote:does anybody have a good definition of the term welfare? I am having a hard time determining what welfare stands for..
if I see a motorist pulled off the side of the road in the middle of the Mojave desert stranded because their spare tire was deflated when they went to change the flat tire they had, am I supposed to stop and offer assistance? after all the motorist definitely was a "loser" not having an inflated spare tire to replace his flat.. could be this motorist is on the same level of ineptitude as the welfare recipient in temporary need of some food stamps, since both did not prepare themselves and both are to blame for their condition, so if the tea bagger's logic is valid, I should drive on by not even giving them a second glance since they do not deserve anything since it was their fault they are in the predicament they are now in.spending a few more dollars as tax to the federal government would equate to my labor and time invested in stopping and helping this stranded family?. is this a good definition of WELFARE? and can we say any form of helping someone that is down and out, albeit temporarily, as welfare, oh, the stranded motorist has the option of walking out of the desert so he no doubt does not need the help , but it would be a little more comfortable getting the help..ey?


it's not really as difficult as all that,
welfare is state provided means, when there are no day to day means available.
welfare is not cause oriented.
all bureaucratic systems are prone to virus like self regeneration.
like an infection, their output, lays the ground work for more bureaucratic systems, which in turn propagates the bureaucrat.
the recipient is fodder for more government employment.
this is why they are dangerous.
the illusion is that that the citizen is somehow the dispenser of charity, quite the opposite really.
social programs give the citizen cover for not being charitable in any case.
so not having a choice, your illustration is erroneous.

#177418 by fisherman bob
Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:23 pm
PaperDog wrote:
fisherman bob wrote:Case in point, right under my roof: I have a 270lb mass of muscle living under my roof who happens to be my autistic son. If there wasn't any government relief for him, disability and medicaid, he would be DEAD. Not suffering. Not struggling to survive. DEAD. I could have, perhaps should have, told the authorities to come get him many years ago. We did try to give him a trial residency at Kansas' premier facility. After a few days they told us to come get him. The staff was SCARED of his power. By having him live with me I'm saving y'all beaucoup taxpayer bucks.
There's MILLIONS of people who have handicapped sons, daughters, parents, siblings, etc. live with them.
For every person who is abusing the welfare system, receiving food stamps they "don't deserve", etc. there may be dozens or HUNDREDS of people whose very survival depends on what paltry aid they are receiving.
I am "allowed" to get paid about $10/hour to watch my son 35 hours/month when in fact I conservatively watch him about 15 hours per day.
I have been investigated twice by Protective Services for abusing my son when my son attacked me. Believe me where you exist, in your worst nightmare you don't want to mess with my son. When the investigators saw the size and strength of my son they promptly dropped the cases.
I ramble on, and you're probably wondering what I'm getting to, and it's this. When I hear people complain about somebody who doesn't deserve the relief they are receiving, unless you personally know that person, unless you know the circumstances they are involved with, then I would say you don't know what the fu*k you're talking about.


Bob , I am truly sorry for what you have to endure everyday, with your son. I find it extremely admirable (and I sincerely applaud you ) that you have stood by him throughout his life, even when he made things difficult. The manner in which you handle your situation makes you a top father, to beat all fathers...

There is absolutely no dispute about the benefits of receiving real government aid for real problems...And Yes, we sure as hell need that system. .We can and should fund and perpetuate goodwill and care.

But I can tell you that the fraud and abuses of our welfare system are pushing upwards, close to a billion dollars in losses... The reason you receive such a paltry sum (when you could legitimately receive more) to care for your son, is directly caused by the takers in the system who DONT need the aid, or who need less than they claim and receive.

The whole argument centers around the disparity between tax payers, who support these programs, and the absolutely terrible leadership that runs these programs and influences and drives cost effectiveness into the ground. It is simply costying America too much now... Something has to be done, to bring it all back to proper scope.
. I agree with the notion that there are many who are abusing the system, yet the government HAS done much in recent years to lower those numbers. It is extremely difficult when you are dealing with such a complex situation as this to ascertain who needs what amount of aid. Every person, every stuation is different. In my opinion there is an extreme amount of PREJUDGING by MANY people who say stuff like "I saw this woman dressed to kill including expensive jewelry using food stamps the other day."
Our ENTIRE federal government is run innefficiently. There is an enormous amount of graft and corruption at all levels. Of course I have a vested interest in maintaining the welfare system I have a vested interest in maintaining social security and medicaid. We ALL have a vested interest in maintaining these various agencies that literally keep countless people affloat. I don't understand how lifetime "public servants" become milionaires or billionaires. How much money are they pocketing by industrial and corporate bribers?
Don't ever say get rid of welfare and government relief programs because somebody may be taking aid who "don't" need it. Like I said earlier, you don't know for sure who really deserves the aid or not.
I'm thankful it's there. I just wish the system was run more effiiciently. I wish ALL government officials at EVERY level, local, state and federal, were held to a strict and publicly OPEN accounting so that EVERY damn cent is accounted for.
We desperately need a massive change in our government system. The biggest problem I see is MASSIVE red tape and legalese every step of the way. Everybody is protecting their asses. You can hardly scratch your ass without having a damn attorney approve it.
Republicans and Democrats are BOTH woefully antiquated. Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street both have their collective heads up their asses. I'm starting to believe that the majority of people are suffering from anal glaucoma, they can't see for sh*t, literally.

#177425 by jimmydanger
Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:44 pm
Some people really need assistance, and others just take advantage of the system. You can't throw out the whole barrel because of a few bad apples.

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