General Chat (Non-Music-Related)

... Gossimer ... every Circle has a beginning and an end. It is a gift to be able to see them. Very interesting Posts.

PaperDog ... Very astute and amusing. I thank you and I know that most of what you relate here is meant in the kindest way and I hope that I never will be the recipient of the "other side" of you. It most certainly is not my desire.

Gossimer ... I am sorry to hear about the "Burning Down The House". This kind of event most definately changes one's perspective of existence and such. Interesting choice of name ... Gossimer. Cobwebs floating upon the air, touching their surroundings like the wings of a butterfly ... do not get caughr within the bush or deadwood that lies about rotting. Flimsy and delicate and vulnerable to the flame. Ta

Actually the Circle is symbolic of unity and infinity (Ouroboros)
It represents the Goddess aspect and the Sun.
There is no beginning or end, it is immortality in its purest form.

... Etu, I thank you very much for your Post ... excellent pic as well. Yes you are correct about the symbology of a circle regarding unity and infinity.

There are many meanings of the circle throughout the ages. I refer more to spiritualistic circles than the ancient snake biting its tail, in this case. A circle can be a group of people meeting for ritual, discussion, Council or even seances. I speak here of a circle as an incarnation, one existence or life ... which includes birth and death hence the beginning and end I refer to. Many "Native Americans" and eastern religions hold similar views and beliefs.

Immortality is an excellent subject and I would love to sit around a fire and discuss it with you, PaperDog, Yod and a few others on here some night. I quite enjoy having made your acquaintence and I value your opinions and views, translations on my behalf to others and other posts as well.

I personally believe that it is possible to lose forever one;s "immortality" either by personal actions or those of others who are knowledgable ... to vanish ...be wiped forever from the slate of existence ... never to return or to "be" anywhere. I realize this to be a somewhat controversial statement but I prefer to tell you regardless. Ta

could you please clarify or elaborate on your words, "personally believe that it is possible to lose forever one;s "immortality" either by personal actions or those of others who are knowledgable " what do you mean by "those of others who are knowledgeable"? are you saying some people are skilled enough to take away my immortality, something Jesus Christ has guaranteed me with proper application? psychic vampires have nothing over this kid..

The aspect of the Soul that the Egyptians called the Ka, can be destroyed, or perishes if not evolved over subsequent incarnations (use it or lose it). This destruction of the Ka can ultimately effect the remainder of the Soul and even destroy it (not good!)

ok, that answers the "personal actions" portion which is to be understood, if you do not have faith in the BLOOD sacrifice Jesus offered us all, I can see how your whole soul is destroyed, but still you have not answered the "of others that are knowledgable" can destroy my immortality, whom or what is vampier referring to? who are these "others" .. and why would they wish to take immortality away from people? envy?

...PaperDog , I thank you and hope that you do not ever fall victim to carpel tunnel or vampirism.

Your opening Post pretty much much sums u yourself and a few others I have met and admired. Etu is very good at translations but even better at asking questions I find.

I have no trouble respecting some individual's views even if I do not agree with them, if they are sincere and based upon something real. There are some Universal Truths I believe. For example ... a person's fate is determined according to their deeds. Another ... the minds of many are blindfolded.

Tennessee Jedi is upfront and outspoken and I can respect that. Dane Ellis Allen is caring, engaging and also very valid. I like to hear what they say.

I have always found it to be "interesting" that when certain feats are "performed" by the prophets or the god of one religion then they are thought to be miracles or displays of power ...but when the feats are done by those who worship other gods then these actions are called "magic" or even "sorcery". Moses and Aaron for example. Magic is the Art of effecting change with the help of "higher" forces.

Of course attitudes in this respect shift with time. I believe that the "god-particle" if ever found will be only lint in the universe. But what everyone posts is somehow relevant and worthy of thought ... Guitar Mike, Glenn and JW123 all display a certain perspective which is real and relevant as well. Where is Scotty ?

Yod must be extremely busy at the moment ? Great Posts and thoughts however. JCP61's perspctive is very relevant and timely as well. Gtzip ... thetree, the path and the journey ... always applicable I agree.

I do think there to be quite a few Bubba's ...good one Etu. Etu I thank you for your "translated explanation" yet once again. Dane, I shall answer "of others that are knowlegable". What Etu has said does have continued relevance in reference to your remaining question I believe however.

I have never had the great urge to figure everything out or to understand and find all the answers. Quite frankly I believe that it is impossible for anyone to do that in this existence. It is a personal journey for each of us and my motto is simply to "Live Well and Die Well". Further I try not to convince the unconvincible or sing even to the deaf. Please understand that I am not reffering to you here. What I am saying is everyone has their beliefs and this is how it should be ... for to have no beliefs dooms one.

When I do seek an answer, explanation or information I try to "Return to the Source" when ever possible or get as near to it as I can. Quite often this creates a host of new questions and I do enjoy the journey and the path in the resulting process. This can at times actually take years.

First let me say that I am Vampier because I am caught upon the cusp of the physical world and the next plane.

Transformation of the Soul ... Dispersal of the Soul ... Killing of the Soul ... I think that we can all agree regardless of personal belief that death is seperation.

Many believe that if one commits suicide ... you kill yourself and your soul. I do not believe this. Others put great store in "The Second Death". The amusing thing is that where we are all at now ... the point is vastly arguable.

During the reign of Hungli in China in April of 1768 there was great commotion over losing one's soul by having one's queue clipped and incantations done by sorcerer monks. In China the soul is thought to have two parts ... the Po and the Hun. This I do find somewhat believable. Many societies deemed "primitive" today believe that you can lose your soul to the camera. Curtis photographed many North American Indians ? Leni Reifenstahl photographed many Africans ? And what about many of the "movie stars" today ? More to come Ta

...the possible death of a soul. It is worthy to note that hair and paper/clay dolls are not just voodoo but date back much earlier. This practice was in use in the middle east and Egypt quite early on. The belief is the same however ...using nail clippings, hair, or personal effects to capture the spirit ... stealing souls and forcing the owners to do your bidding. Even drugs are used to create "zombies".

Masons in ancient Egypt were said to steal souls by inscribing the names on wood or stone of their victims. This "inscribing" has continued to today and is quite widespread throughout the entire world ?

Mirrors used as specula... the Specularii writing upon them with human blood ? The power of mirrors is very well documented and mentioned by many ancient authors like Apuleius, Saint Augustine, Pausanias and Spartianus. Mirrors were used by the Egyptians, Arabs, Persian Magi, Greeks and Romans for many things other than vanity. In Christian lore mirrors enable Demons to make themselves known. This belief has always been used as propaganda against Pagans.

Gypsies have a reputation for soul stealing that is traced back to their three main original tribal divisions ... the Gitanos ... the Kalderash and the Manush. In Russia it is still believed in some areas that seeing a corpse reflected in a mirror puts the living at risk ... the ghost of the dead can carry of the soul.

Even now mirrors are turned in a house when someone dies because they are soul stealers ala Narcissus and his reflection upon the water. Mirrors are removed from sick rooms as the soul is more vulnerable during times of illness. Breaking a mirror is bad luck as it holds the soul which will become damaged. Vampires are said tocast no reflection in mirrors as they have no souls.

Mirrors are believed to have certain Dark Powers and to be soul stealers. Much has been written about souls imprisoned in mirrors. I believe that this does have some basis as mirrors can be portals. All myth is based upon some fact I also believe.

Mirrors most definately can be used to train the inner eye to percieve the unseen. They also can be used in scrying. I have always found mirrors and their qualities to be utterly fascinating.

The Human Soul is the innermost "core" of our individual being and our consciousness. The supreme issue of human existence should be the "survival" of one's Soul ... I believe.

More to Come Ta

The Death of a Soul ... Some believe the Soul or Spirit to be just an illusion ... modern Neuroscience seems to confirm this ... at the moment. Genetic creations do confirm that without the Soul ... the body is a husk with nothing inside ... no light and not truly "living" ... it has no empathy. This I believe to now have become a real and present danger to mankind.

I do have my own beliefs ... my own suspicions and I would state that they are the same as others in that they are personal, intuitive and the result of our various experiences, critical thoughts, reasonings and spiritual "feelings" and ancestry. They are no more or less relevant than anyone else's. I believe that a free exchange of beliefs and thoughts is to be desired even if they are at odds and in conflict ... they are each entitled to be given relevance and audience.

There are essentially two ways of killing the Soul I believe. Of course a Soul may become lost, delayed, confused or disraught, but in each of these cases it remains immortal as it were.

The first and most obvious is to prevent the Soul from proceeding, to retard and even to cause regression. Of course this on it's own will not take away the Soul's immortality but only cause it to be as a "retarded" child and unable to graduate as it were. This would normally translate as merely more Circles but ...at this moment in time the existence of the entire "system" is at risk of eradication. Should this occur then such Souls will wither and perish without the vine so to speak.

I have come to realize and to therefore to believe that there are those that exist and that have always been amongst us, who have worked towards and intend to "eliminate" as many Souls as they can from the "board of play". Their objective is to do away with the entire "board" thus destroying as many as possible and along with them the entire system.

I also believe that not only is this possible but it is becoming more probable with the passing of each moment. 1 ...the board and system go and as a consequence so do the Souls in "transition". 2 ... the board and system go and as a consequence so do the Soul's in ?existence" (with bodies) Upon the death of the body the Souls will be lost with no system in existence to accomodate them and will also perish.

Mankind can place blame upon no one excepting itself and can expect no forthcoming salvation from any other quarter than itself. I say this because I do not believe in a conventional god or even devil. Prophets perhaps will be able to give a good account of themselves but are doomed to fail because the entire system is being eradicated.

I understand that to most this may seem a bit farfetched but nevertheless I do believe it. And ....of course the point is completely arguable. Intrinsically I feel most know or sense within themselves at least the overpowering and foreboding danger.

More to Come Ta

...the possible death of a soul. It is worthy to note that hair and paper/clay dolls are not just voodoo but date back much earlier. This practice was in use in the middle east and Egypt quite early on. The belief is the same however ...using nail clippings, hair, or personal effects to capture the spirit ... stealing souls and forcing the owners to do your bidding. Even drugs are used to create "zombies".

Masons in ancient Egypt were said to steal souls by inscribing the names on wood or stone of their victims. This "inscribing" has continued to today and is quite widespread throughout the entire world ?

Mirrors used as specula... the Specularii writing upon them with human blood ? The power of mirrors is very well documented and mentioned by many ancient authors like Apuleius, Saint Augustine, Pausanias and Spartianus. Mirrors were used by the Egyptians, Arabs, Persian Magi, Greeks and Romans for many things other than vanity. In Christian lore mirrors enable Demons to make themselves known. This belief has always been used as propaganda against Pagans.

Gypsies have a reputation for soul stealing that is traced back to their three main original tribal divisions ... the Gitanos ... the Kalderash and the Manush. In Russia it is still believed in some areas that seeing a corpse reflected in a mirror puts the living at risk ... the ghost of the dead can carry of the soul.

Even now mirrors are turned in a house when someone dies because they are soul stealers ala Narcissus and his reflection upon the water. Mirrors are removed from sick rooms as the soul is more vulnerable during times of illness. Breaking a mirror is bad luck as it holds the soul which will become damaged. Vampires are said tocast no reflection in mirrors as they have no souls.

Mirrors are believed to have certain Dark Powers and to be soul stealers. Much has been written about souls imprisoned in mirrors. I believe that this does have some basis as mirrors can be portals. All myth is based upon some fact I also believe.

Mirrors most definately can be used to train the inner eye to percieve the unseen. They also can be used in scrying. I have always found mirrors and their qualities to be utterly fascinating.

The Human Soul is the innermost "core" of our individual being and our consciousness. The supreme issue of human existence should be the "survival" of one's Soul ... I believe.

More to Come Ta

LOL . . . I knew there was more to you! May your Ba be with your Ka!

The Death of the Soul ....There are many paths to the mountain top and each of us chooses their own. Even by not choosing one has chosen, Far too many have strayed or become distracted, even corrupted, polluted and damaged. This has long been the greatest danger but now has been nurtured and developed to such an extent, the world "is" as it has never before "been". That which has applied such with endurance, cleverness and purpose is the greatest Evil. I am convinced of it's existence, it's purpose and it's power ... I am at least to an extent aware of it and it's true purpose.

I have not been "led" to this conclusion nor do I understand it all completely...I am merely aware of it. To fathom it in it's entirety is impossible for any upon this plane of existence, I believe.

This level of "awareness" was the single most direct result of my last big production "Fallen Angels". To fully recount this I would have to write an entire bo, both on and off of the many paths.ok or books. So I shall endeavour to keep it short which will no doubt be still far too lengthy for most.

I shall begin by simply stating a few facts which lie strewn about upon the side of the mountain both on and off the many paths to the top. In this manner one may reach their own personal conclusion in accordance with their own beliefs and journey.

I only desire that "in general" you do not dismiss me, my thoughts or beiiefs or my experiences out of hand. But ...consider them and possibly find perhaps some intersections or crossroads with your own path.

I consider this all to be Spiritual as opposed to religious. I believe that "religion" is and has been always merely an invention of man. And I would state that from this hideous invention even more were spawned, case in point "government".

Some of the more enlightened religions actually freely admit that "all is an illusion" and even place end dates upon themselves. I personally give such more consideration than the others.

From "religion" more murder and hideous acts of mankind against itself have come than from any other source ... in every age. Does this in itself not make both religion and mankind essentially evil ? More to come Ta

...The Death of Soul or Spirit ....

Pesonally I prefer to use the term Spirit when referring to the "Soul". Much has also been written upon this and I shall not enter this subject in great depth here at this moment. Many believe that there is a difference between the two... no difference or that they are two entirely different things ? This makes a book or two within itself.

So I shall now refer to that thing commonly known today as Soul ...as Spirit. There is a "Spirit World" but there exists no "Soul World".

I would urge that one lingers for a moment and contemplates their own "Monad" or at least finds out what it is. Also perhaps a look into the host of Worlds that exist along with the Physical World in which many are "trapped" rather than "experiencing". As I have mentioned ... there is a Spirit World undeniably. There also exists a Mental World and an Intuitional World.

One's Spirit is manifested in each of these worlds within the aspect of the Intellect, Intuition and the Will. It is a personal to either use or ignore them. No doubt along our journey we encounter some who are "set" above others in that they have a "spark" and enthusiasm that others seem not to possess. PaperDog mentions his friend Steve who seems to have been one of these.

This is very inspirational, special and can be called a "Divine Spark". Another point to linger upon might warrant one look into that crevice known as Logos and contemplate one's own will, Wisdom and Activities. Introspect is a part of monadic evolution. Without it one tends to fall victim to the many pitfalls which naturally occur upon any of the paths.

The Spirit manifests itself in an "atomic" body, that is a body comprised of atoms. Within this body is contained not only atoms and Spirit but also Will and Intuition. To be "fully equiped" Wisdom and Activity must also be included. It is simple in a complicated way but not complicated in a simple way.

This all results in what is known as Ego. And no doubt we are all acquainted with this and all possess ...Ego. It is the failure to comprehend one's Ego and it's source that causes the problems associated with it here in the physical.

So our Spirit clothes itself in an atomic body and possesses three aspects ... Will, Wisdom and Activity. When it passes into the next

"sphere" which is the Intuitional, it is devoid of Will and maintains it's Wisdom and Activity. When passing to the next and "higher Sphere" ... the Mental ... it is devoid of Wisdom and possesses only the aspect of Activity.

Once one's "Monad" has then "manifested" itself in the three spheres it will have transfused the Spirit with Will, Wisdom and Activity or Intellect. This means it has a human Ego which shall either enable it or encumber it until eventually it's evolutionary purpose is fulfilled. This is what the common term "Soul" refers to.

Eventually this Spirit/Soul will be received back into the "Logos". So this process is ... the Monad descending from the Higher Mental Sphere to the Lower Mental Sphere where it appears in a "Mental Body" as possessing Mind. Next it enters the Astral Sphere and appears in the "Astral Body" as possessing Emotion. Then finally it "betakes" itself into the Physical Sphere and appears in the "Physical Body" as possessing Vitality.

These three lower bodies ... mental, astral and physical constitute the "Human Personality" which is what dies at "Death" and is renewed again when the Monad fulfills the process of Reincarnation again manifesting itself in the previously mentioned three bodies.

Now I have dallied long enough here and made as clear as possible under the circumstances my beliefs with respect to the Spirit/Soul.

More to Come Ta

Vampier Writes: Mirrors are believed to have certain Dark Powers and to be soul stealers. Much has been written about souls imprisoned in mirrors. I believe that this does have some basis as mirrors can be portals. All myth is based upon some fact I also believe.

Mirrors most definately can be used to train the inner eye to percieve the unseen. They also can be used in scrying. I have always found mirrors and their qualities to be utterly fascinating.

Mirrors can also deceive the inner eye... and they have a role (I believe) in how we engage the subjunctive in life, and how we fall into the abyss of evil.

1) Greed A dog with a steak in his mouth, approaches the edge of the pond, and sees, in a reflection, another dog with another steak...As most creatures are given over to greedy impulses, the dog attempts to grab the steak from the reflection, and thereby loses possession of the steak he had arrived with.

2) Vanity A woman approaches a mirror , with the expectation of reveling in her own feminine beauty..But she sees the mole on her cheek and the few extra-pounds of curve at her waist. She reaches for a scalpel to remove the mole, and unskillfully destroys the skin around it. She starves her self into malnutrition, causing new moles to appear..She thereby has lost the beauty she possessed when she arrived at the mirror.

3) Pride A man passes by a store window, and notices his own reflection, in conjunction with of the presence of state -of-the-art television set. His tattered clothing speaks to his sense of un unworthiness to possess that television. He then robs and steals from his brothers and sisters to pay for the television...and thereby gains the television, but has lost possession of himself.