General Music Chat

Ok, I want my own music publishing... Can you point me in the right direction?
The internet is sort of all over the place with advice, and what-to-do's.

Copyright, Publishing company, and ASCAP et al, are all separate issues... No?

ci!


Unless you're talking about being a publishing company, there is no reason to worry about it. As the songwriter, then you already own the publishing too, until you sign it away to a publishing company.

ASCAP/BMI/SESAC are licensing companies. It's a little complicated to explain, but basically they take reports of what music is being broadcast publicly and charge broadcasters a fee which gets divided among the artists on that list. It would be a good idea to list your songs with one of them but don't expect to see anything from it until you are getting serious broadcasting on radio or tv.

Songwriter copyright is filing the proper forms with the Library of Congress to prove ownership of a song. You actually already own the copyright but filing those forms will establish legal ownership so you can sue someone who uses it without permission for punitive damages.

When a publishing company owns the copyright, that means no one can use the song without paying the copyright owner, the publisher is usually the administrator of the copyright. That means they are the ones in charge of dividing percentages and paying shares to the owners.

The question is a little confusing though....why do ask? What is it that you're trying to accomplish? You already own the "music publishing" so are you asking about having your own music publishing company?

Ditto what YOD said.. Note, Its my understanding that Publishers dont "own" the actual copyrights,of the artists, but they do control mechanical rights of distribution.

To get a handle on publishing , you prolly have to understand more about licensing (different types to address different needs)

http://www.alankorn.com/articles/publishing_1.html

ZIP, concentrate on the more important thing. Get your music out there.
Technically and legally every time a cover band plays a song for profit they should be paying a royalty.
But like any business, if someone bounces a check, is it worth the legal cost to go after them?
A good publisher is going to look after your interests, but they are not going to chase after some cover band for using your material.
If you were the Beatles and some film used your materials for profit that might be a whole different story.
I wouldn't get to hung up on some of the legal stuff until you start making commotion. I feel bad when someone starts spending a bunch of money on legal copyrights, and no one needs to use the material.

If you want to start a publishing company that would be cool. I think you would find it is a business more than anything. A lot of work and detail, and you would need many more songs than just yours,to make it profitable.

By the way, great playing on your last track!

Unfortunately, many artists do not realize how valuable their publishing rights are. The history of the music business is littered with sleazy promoters who paid pennies for songs that later generated millions in income.

Michael Jackson owned a large part of the Beatles catalog for years.

^ I'd like to be proactive and avoid this type of thing, even though realistically, I got nuthin to worry about

If there ever happened to be some sort of record deal, would a publisher necesarilly be involved? If they were, that's an extra cut of money that Id never see.

But anyways, I think we, as a band, need an umbrella.
All songs get put under one entity and everybody gets equal share of any monies made.

I'm pretty sure all of the recent songs I presented have been L.O.C.d.
All the lovely forms filled out and such.

We've had a flare-up of internet radio stations wanting to play our stuff recently. One of them is in england.
We don't want to seem pompous, but we want to be protected.
I guess that would be a job for ASCAP eh?

Unfortunately, many artists do not realize how valuable their publishing rights are. The history of the music business is littered with sleazy promoters who paid pennies for songs that later generated millions in income.

Michael Jackson owned a large part of the Beatles catalog for years.

^ I'd like to be proactive and avoid this type of thing, even though realistically, I got nuthin to worry about

If there ever happened to be some sort of record deal, would a publisher necesarilly be involved? If they were, that's an extra cut of money that Id never see.

But anyways, I think we, as a band, need an umbrella.
All songs get put under one entity and everybody gets equal share of any monies made.

I'm pretty sure all of the recent songs I presented have been L.O.C.d.
All the lovely forms filled out and such.

We've had a flare-up of internet radio stations wanting to play our stuff recently. One of them is in england.
We don't want to seem pompous, but we want to be protected.
I guess that would be a job for ASCAP eh?

In England... They have a lot of PBS in their BBC . I know a kid here at home that has his stuff played regularly in Glasgow... But, he's been courting them, so they they play his stuff free... He just wants the publicity and the exposure. Frankly I thinks hes doing it the right way...

Now hers the kicker...He's getting positive response...and the broadcasters like him, not to mention many of their listeners (Were talking local Folkal yokel stations) . But whats cool is he's planning a visit... He's got a built in audience when he gets there.

I Personally, think the time to worry about money would be when you wake up one morning and there's a couple o bitches camped outside the door... LOL! Beyond that, its just a question of vanity and self reassurance ...

The beauty of the Internet is that you don't need booking agents and promoters to get your work exposed... One could feasibly create a demand without the middle man, now . If they like what you play, then create the music and lyric sheets and seel em ...there's your own publishing company

Let me put some food for thought in this line of thinking.

10 years is longer than the average career in the music business. A whole generation of music executives, maybe more, have been and gone while we?ve been discussing The Next Big Thing or The next Nr 1 hit.

1. Record your song on CD "Red book Standard" Before anyone hears it!

2. Put your ONE BEST song on everything known to mankind.

3. Become an act, NOT JUST A MUSICIAN.

4. If and when your contacted by a A & R rep. S.H.I.T. or get off the pot.

5. Don't sweat the small stuff or the 10 years will be over before you get your first groopie.

Thats GROUPIE you great old skin banger.

By the way, Did the that fine lady of yours LOVE the BOAT?
I think you bought it for yourself.

Thats GROUPIE you great old skin banger.

groupie boobs gets groped by rock star =groopie or gropie

good try

By the way, thanks Glenny

Let me put some food for thought in this line of thinking.

10 years is longer than the average career in the music business. A whole generation of music executives, maybe more, have been and gone while we?ve been discussing The Next Big Thing or The next Nr 1 hit.

1. Record your song on CD "Red book Standard" Before anyone hears it!

2. Put your ONE BEST song on everything known to mankind.

3. Become an act, NOT JUST A MUSICIAN.

4. If and when your contacted by a A & R rep. S.H.I.T. or get off the pot.

5. Don't sweat the small stuff or the 10 years will be over before you get your first groopie.

Whats does "Red book Standard" mean ? And Does this also mean we should not post our stuff on BMK anymore

http://tinyurl.com/3knaxp9

Michael Jackson owned a large part of the Beatles catalog for years.

He also owned the official State song of Wisconsin!

^ I'd like to be proactive and avoid this type of thing, even though realistically, I got nuthin to worry about

I used to say, "If someone steals my music and can figure out how to make money on it, I'm not going to sue them....I'm going to make them my manager!"

But I wish now that I'd been better educated 10 years ago. If you are making recordings that you intend to promote outside of your local city, then it's smart to be prepared for success.

If there ever happened to be some sort of record deal, would a publisher necesarilly be involved? If they were, that's an extra cut of money that Id never see.

Oh yea, the publishing is often the main concern for a label who is interested in signing you. That's why it might not be a good idea for an indie to form a publishing company because it might give the impression you don't own the publishing.


The publishing rights are often the very thing you are negotiating with a label if you are successfully writing your own music. This is why many labels only sign the songwriters of a band/group. Even if they sign an artist who doesn't write their own material, they will almost always choose music for that artist from a publishing catalogue they own.

I'd bet if you did the research, you'd find that all the American Idol winners are recording music owned by Simon's publishing company when they sign to a label also owned by him. The TV show is a marketing/promotion tool but perhaps the most money Simon makes is in the publishing royalties. It probably has a lot to do with which songs they sing on the show too. A very astute businessman.

To own the publishing rights means that NO ONE, not even the artist and songwriter, can use the music without paying a royalty to the publisher, who is often the copyright administrator (in charge of dividing percentage for all owners involved) though there are many who use a third-party administrator like Bug Music.

The artist doesn't really pay anything while they are with the label but if they ever leave and want to re-record that song, they will pay for it like anyone else.

John Fogerty was recently sued by his former publishing/record company for writing a new album that they said was too close to his old hits as Creedence Clearwater. Not sure how that case turned out, but that's what owning the publishing allows them to do.

But anyways, I think we, as a band, need an umbrella.
All songs get put under one entity and everybody gets equal share of any monies made.

Now that is a good reason to get everything spelled out. I didn't realize you were talking about multiple owners of songs, or a band situation.

I use BMI because they have all tools online. They tend to pay the big stars better, while ASCAP seems to be more accurate with their reporting system. SESAC is geared more towards classical music and film scoring.

But as a member of a licensing society like BMI/ASCAP, the songwriter can state legally through their forms the percentages of ownership for a song. If they ever sign with a publishing/record company, they will be asked to forward the publishing rights to the new administrator.

Songs are divided as a 200% pie.

100% is publishing ownership and another 100% is songwriting ownership. Giving away 100% of publishing doesn't mean you won't own anything (assuming you are the songwriter) but it does mean that they own the right to give you permission to use the song now.

Why does that matter? Imagine you are signed to (insert major label here) and have a hit album, but new A&R comes in and you are let go. You can't press any songs on that album and sell them at gigs now. You have to buy your own music from your former label if you want to sell that music any more. They alone have the rights to press a CD or sell your songs if they are the publishing copyright holder.

This exact scenario happened to Sixpence None the Richer when Warner Bros bought Word. They had the #1 Billboard song of the year with "Kiss Me" and had just recorded their follow up album on Squint (sub-label of Word) when a guy whose only business experience was running casinos in Atlantic City decided to cut them from the Warner label. It seemed insane!? Even I was looking for an investor to help Squint hold on to their roster!?! A close friend of mine had just gotten an artist deal with them a couple of days before Warner dissolved the label.

The artist can always record new music but you probably don't have the same muscle to distribute/market as the former label, so it's less likely you have a "hit". Your live audiences would always want to hear the music you no longer have the rights to press or distribute.

Though I'm not a major artist, I was on a label distributed by Sony/BMG for almost 9 years before buying out my contract, and this scenario has been my dilemna. I recently recorded and released a new CD that I push at live gigs, but I still play the older songs that my fans know me for, and still have to buy those CDs from the former label. I make 10 times more profit on the new CD they don't own, but the older stuff is what gets me in the door.

We've had a flare-up of internet radio stations wanting to play our stuff recently. One of them is in england.
We don't want to seem pompous, but we want to be protected.
I guess that would be a job for ASCAP eh?

Or BMI

It is prudent and very "non" pompous to be legally protected and set up as a business. Internet broadcasts are changing licensing laws every day and who knows where it will go in the future? For example, YouTube is now paying licensing too. If your music is legally licensed, you should receive a royalty for every time someone else plays it in a YouTube video.



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To own the publishing rights means that NO ONE, not even the artist and songwriter, can use the music without paying a royalty to the publisher, who is often the copyright administrator (in charge of dividing percentage for all owners involved) though there are many who use a third-party administrator like Bug Music.

The artist doesn't really pay anything while they are with the label but if they ever leave and want to re-record that song, they will pay for it like anyone else.

John Fogerty was recently sued by his former publishing/record company for writing a new album that they said was too close to his old hits as Creedence Clearwater. Not sure how that case turned out, but that's what owning the publishing allows them to do.

Yod , thanks for this really great insight... I can only say that the publishes and labels get away with this because they own the "transportation channels " if you will, of broadcasted or distributed marketable material...

Publishers and labels would quite frankly be useless if I built my own professional website, paid Google about 60k to dominate the Crawler (Mass exposure world wide) for me. Then , If I posted my Work for the 99 cents per song, announced a tours, cd-giveaways, etc , all I would need in reality is a booking manager (since I am lazy) and a web master


I kind of understand now why so many people were getting shot and killed in the Hip-Hop community... Came down to the greed of the labels and Publishers...with bad reaction by the artists..

Zip, you might want to to consider filing a DBA business alias , aka your own publishing company just so you can claim and sustain distribution rights of the work you do...