United States

Hey Monti ... if you're fine with playing music and doing it for the love of it .. then keep doing what you are doing .. I've got no beef with that.

The problem with the internet is monetizing your effert ... can't go on making little or no money forever. New gear will be needed, gas money, recording equipment ...

That is mostly true. I have a question to ask you: when you say new gear, do you mean in the sense that your old gear's busted, or getting new gear because it's NEW? To be honest I can make do without buying the top of the line gear. In fact, in Electronic music while there are a lot of new gear coming out all the time, a lot of Electronic musicians are fine with their old stuff.

Gas Money? yeah performing live acts... or in MY case, just to go see a venue in Seattle is rough because Tacoma has no Electronic Scene.

"So your friend isn't rich--by YOUR standards" ... got nothing to do with my standards. He has spent a considerable amount of money to get this CD out into the market, so if he doesn't make any money he won't be able to afford another CD ... it's simple math.

Agreed. This is why I don't release CDs... to cut down on costs. While I want more sales, I can say that never had to drop any more money down after my first release. Another reason why I don't release CDs is because my area really IS weak when it comes to Electronic music.

Is he happy ... I guess he is he got his music out there ... is he successful .. from talking to him ... yes & no. He thinks he has had good reviews but would have like better sales, he has over 5000 fans on FB but has sold under 500 CD's ... back to monetizing on the internet.

[quote="Prevost82] Things will never get back to the way they were ... unless you're known enough to touring Europe or playing live in some place like Mexico where people are not listening to free music with their earbuds plugged in all day .. and live music still has value.[/quote]

I agree with that too--in fact I need to perform more-- but as I said, just moving out of my area isn't very cost effective. New bands are coming out with various ways to perform live using alternate methods.

[quote]This is one of the worst years I've seen for live music, I've only had 3 calls to play this year ... it's dead. Even festivals are shutting down this year .. 3 big fests just in my area have shut down ... well known artists are having a hard making ends meet ... I can't see how this is good for any musician out here ... you included[/quote]

I forgot to ask where you are at? I'd discuss this with you more... not because I disagree, in so much the scene where I'm at is terrible for variety of reasons... and depending what you do might work up here. One shouldn't think what wouldn't work where you're at won't work in say... WA?

Just saying.

[quote]What I stated was if want to be successful (monetarily) you need to get the best of the best on that list. Take one off and you will be less succesful take 2 off even less ... and lets not forget about LUCK ... being at the right place, in front of the right person, with the right product.[\quote]

But... that's if you trying to be signed. And even if you have all of those, there's an issue of copyright control and royalties that you might have to give up.

I'm not giving anybody anything they haven't EARNED. And unless you have millions of fans behind you, you won't have the luxury of keeping your copyrights if you're signed.

[quote]Hell ... I was young once too, with high ideals like yours ... but I got tired of starving and sponging off of others ... and became a music whore ... like a fellow keyboard whore sez " How much does the gig pay"[/quote]

I hate to tell you this, but I'm turning 39 next month, I've crash and burned numerous times-- and continue to do so because I need that experience. I know full well you can't monetize from Social Media. (I've learned some REAL hard lessons on that one.)

I've been actually quite real with myself going into this. This is how come it's gonna take longer, and be harder, but I've got what a lot of other people haven't got in this biz.... PATIENCE.

And don't assume I've been leeching people while I'm doing this. I believe in handling things myself.

yod, please be advised, Lynard has informed me he has washed his hands of me for good, now, I could understand his feelings of me being a true adversary as his email to me stated, but to tell you the truth, I have not had no contact whatsoever with Lynard for weeks or months, have not been talking s*it about him on the boards, have not phoned the guy, nadda, and all of a sudden this guy tells me out of the blue I ain't a friend, and I should not use the term so liberally, but I'm thinking Lynard might have thought I was gossiping about him, but I was speaking of Matt, the dude that thinks so much of my music that he's recording me for free with a Firewire stick? my free recording session is coming soon with Matt, not Lynard, and I'm really stoked about it..love Lynard to death, but praying for his mental well-being might not be enough..

He seems to have a bad drug and alcohol problem. He was cool only a few months ago but then began turning on everyone. I think he's successfully isolated himself by alienating anyone who would even talk to him.

Now he is his own worst enemy and isn't willing to admit it yet. He ain't too far from the bottom, where his only choice will be to look up, if he doesn't go the way of Whitney.

Hey Monti

1 New gear .. I play keyboards .. mostly Hammond. I'm buying Hammonds that are lighter and sound closer to the real thing ... there is always something makes you a G.A.S.

2 how's that working out for you?

3 so you can't monetize enough off your tunes to pay for gas to get out and play more and what alternative methods do you speak .. cardboard figures and an iPod playing music ... "pressing play does not constitute performance".

4 I'm in BC interior .. I do a lot of west coast throw-together bands for touring artists from the mid and east coast ... you know .. learn .. 2 to 3 sets in a week, if I'm lucky, have one reheasal with the artist and go on tour ... like I said I'm a music whore.

5 The list is not for "if you trying to be signed" it's for anyone that wants to make money off their craft ... like I said .. this industry is all about names .. who you know. You don't have to give them points .. you can just pay them ... but of course you would have to monetize your tunes to have money.

6 Einstein Quote "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". I started being a music whore in the late 70's because touring with one band was starting to be problematic for full time work. So I whored myself out to any band that had bookings and could pay my rate ... back to full time work.

7 I never said that "you" were leeching off anyone ... I said I was heading in that direction and need a course correction and it has worked from 1977 to 2009 .. now not so much.

The value of music is just about "0" .. it costs the same amount of money ($0.99) to download a MP3 of someone farting into a mike, as a song ... and I bet the fart get more downloads .. I have not idea how to do a course correction for that. But I do play a lot in Mexico, during the winter months, where live music seems to still have value ... we have a great bunch of ex-pro's in my area, down there, and we can get as many bookings as we want

Wow... with your jadedness no wonder why it's harder for you to get gigs.

And you're in BC? I don't know what genre you're playing, but I heard it was KICKING for Electronic music.

You sound bitter. And while I acknowledge the path I'm taking isn't easy, but if I had your attitude, I'd quit before I'd try.


I feel bad for you really, because I've met musicians your age who've been busy with gigs.

But your biggest problem it seems, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're resistant to technology being used to create and perform music. That's your choice. You CHOSE, rather than to adapt, you choose to die... bitterly.

I don't know what to say. Except to say thank you for being an example of a musician resistant to change... letting your own judgmental attitude dictate your own predicament.

Whether you intend it or not, that's how you project yourself. And nobody can change that but you.

I was going to respond more to your post, but after what I sensed from your posts, I'd be wasting my time.

Wow... with your jadedness no wonder why it's harder for you to get gigs.

And you're in BC? I don't know what genre you're playing, but I heard it was KICKING for Electronic music.

You sound bitter. And while I acknowledge the path I'm taking isn't easy, but if I had your attitude, I'd quit before I'd try.


I feel bad for you really, because I've met musicians your age who've been busy with gigs.

But your biggest problem it seems, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're resistant to technology being used to create and perform music. That's your choice. You CHOSE, rather than to adapt, you choose to die... bitterly.

I don't know what to say. Except to say thank you for being an example of a musician resistant to change... letting your own judgmental attitude dictate your own predicament.

Whether you intend it or not, that's how you project yourself. And nobody can change that but you.

I was going to respond more to your post, but after what I sensed from your posts, I'd be wasting my time.

Congratulations! You just skanked and dismissed a valuable veteran of the music biz... I'm pretty sure he's put more success under his belt and forgot about it, than you have, looking forward. Why must you be so arrogant? Is that the only way you know how to push yourself?

You are young... I can tell by your attitude you have a lot to learn yet. Your first lesson, grasshopper: Never step on a toe you don't know... cause it might be connected to the ass you'll have to kiss someday...)

Before you point fingers about "resistance to change", let just ask...did any of your European buyers happen to own any department stores and/or elevator companies? Now if that's the base you wanted , then I'd say, after hearing your piece on your profile... you're a good fit... and I wish you the best of luck...

sorry ... not into electronic music as I said "pressing play does not constitute performance". I only do live peformance and a bit of studio work ... meaning I play ever note that is heard .. in real time .. not triggering a pre-program sequencer .. I'm a musician not a technician

Bitter ... Jaded ... maybe .. but it doesn't change anything .. the industry is what it is .. even you acknowledged that.

I play Blues, R&B, Funk, Fusion Jazz, Jazz ... some country and country rock

And as far as attitude, I must have a good one or I wouldn't have been called to played with touring artists as much as I have ... because attitude is usually first on their list.

The money has gotten so bad that touring artists are doing single acts without a band, which in most cases it's a shame, because their matterial really kicks with a full band ..

I've got no dog in this fight Monti ... carry doing what you do and good luck with it

Wow... with your jadedness no wonder why it's harder for you to get gigs.

And you're in BC? I don't know what genre you're playing, but I heard it was KICKING for Electronic music.

You sound bitter. And while I acknowledge the path I'm taking isn't easy, but if I had your attitude, I'd quit before I'd try.


I feel bad for you really, because I've met musicians your age who've been busy with gigs.

But your biggest problem it seems, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're resistant to technology being used to create and perform music. That's your choice. You CHOSE, rather than to adapt, you choose to die... bitterly.

I don't know what to say. Except to say thank you for being an example of a musician resistant to change... letting your own judgmental attitude dictate your own predicament.

Whether you intend it or not, that's how you project yourself. And nobody can change that but you.

I was going to respond more to your post, but after what I sensed from your posts, I'd be wasting my time.

Congratulations! You just skanked and dismissed a valuable veteran of the music biz... I'm pretty sure he's put more success under his belt and forgot about it, than you have, looking forward. Why must you be so arrogant? Is that the only way you know how to push yourself?

You are young... I can tell by your attitude you have a lot to learn yet. Your first lesson, grasshopper: Never step on a toe you don't know... cause it might be connected to the ass you'll have to kiss someday...)

Before you point fingers about "resistance to change", let just ask...did any of your European buyers happen to own any department stores and/or elevator companies? Now if that's the base you wanted , then I'd say, after hearing your piece on your profile... you're a good fit... and I wish you the best of luck...

wow... I just got trolled by the mighty Paperdog. I must be honored.

First of all PD, There is a .0015 chance I'll run into him unless he does electronic music. And I'm going off of how he's portraying. And I don't kiss ass. Nor do I have to troll like you. That phase has been dead and gone for almost a decade.

Second of all, I didn't skank, nor dismiss him. A valuable veteran? Maybe, but it's not like he's the only veteran I've came across, NOR will be the last... and the veterans I've talked to either won or was nominated for a Grammy... so I know who and what information to carry.

Success is relative...

And follow your advice about stomping on toes you don't know. You don't know me either so take your advice... or troll like you do on other threads I read. Don't care.

And on that note, I'm done.

Wow... with your jadedness no wonder why it's harder for you to get gigs.

And you're in BC? I don't know what genre you're playing, but I heard it was KICKING for Electronic music.

You sound bitter. And while I acknowledge the path I'm taking isn't easy, but if I had your attitude, I'd quit before I'd try.


I feel bad for you really, because I've met musicians your age who've been busy with gigs.

But your biggest problem it seems, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're resistant to technology being used to create and perform music. That's your choice. You CHOSE, rather than to adapt, you choose to die... bitterly.

I don't know what to say. Except to say thank you for being an example of a musician resistant to change... letting your own judgmental attitude dictate your own predicament.

Whether you intend it or not, that's how you project yourself. And nobody can change that but you.

I was going to respond more to your post, but after what I sensed from your posts, I'd be wasting my time.

Congratulations! You just skanked and dismissed a valuable veteran of the music biz... I'm pretty sure he's put more success under his belt and forgot about it, than you have, looking forward. Why must you be so arrogant? Is that the only way you know how to push yourself?

You are young... I can tell by your attitude you have a lot to learn yet. Your first lesson, grasshopper: Never step on a toe you don't know... cause it might be connected to the ass you'll have to kiss someday...)

Before you point fingers about "resistance to change", let just ask...did any of your European buyers happen to own any department stores and/or elevator companies? Now if that's the base you wanted , then I'd say, after hearing your piece on your profile... you're a good fit... and I wish you the best of luck...

wow... I just got trolled by the mighty Paperdog. I must be honored.

First of all PD, There is a .0015 chance I'll run into him unless he does electronic music. And I'm going off of how he's portraying. And I don't kiss ass. Nor do I have to troll like you. That phase has been dead and gone for almost a decade.

Second of all, I didn't skank, nor dismiss him. A valuable veteran? Maybe, but it's not like he's the only veteran I've came across, NOR will be the last... and the veterans I've talked to either won or was nominated for a Grammy... so I know who and what information to carry.

Success is relative...

And follow your advice about stomping on toes you don't know. You don't know me either so take your advice... or troll like you do on other threads I read. Don't care.

And on that note, I'm done.

With your arrogance, You were done long before this...

Troll? I think not... (You just don't agree with my posts...)

I too, have met Grammy winners (Back when winning a Grammy actually meant something).

Buh Bye! and seriously...best of luck to ya..

Arrogance? WHAT arrogance? Show me oh wise one... show me where I've been arrogant?

I've been accused of a lot of things but not arrogance.

And yeah you do tend to troll... I've been looking at some of the threads on this board.

If you think I'm arrogant because either I refuse to be negative, and disagree with the majority mindset here--because I've done research-- you construe that as being arrogant? Encouraging people to do research and explore alternate ways to be successful MUST be arrogance I suppose.

In the grand scheme of things I'm just a small fish in an ocean--FOR NOW. But I DO take exception to people acting like a big fish in a small pond-- whether they're a veteran or not. And coming from a manufacturing background I've ran across veterans who've been at a job for decades-- and still don't know squat and refuse to adapt to new ways.

So if you think I'm still arrogant, God bless you. Cuz in this case... doesn't really matter.

Oh Monti, you've been acting like an expert when the only person who is buying it is you, bro.

You dissed everyone in the conversation without listening or learning a damn thing. I would say "ignorant" is a better descriptor, but you are definitely trying to hide it with arrogance.

We were playing along for a little while....but now you want to challenge everyone's manhood in a pissing contest.

From what I've seen on the forums, a lot of people come here just for that, so you'll have plenty of takers on that offer.





.

Arrogance? WHAT arrogance? Show me oh wise one... show me where I've been arrogant?

I've been accused of a lot of things but not arrogance.

And yeah you do tend to troll... I've been looking at some of the threads on this board.

If you think I'm arrogant because either I refuse to be negative, and disagree with the majority mindset here--because I've done research-- you construe that as being arrogant? Encouraging people to do research and explore alternate ways to be successful MUST be arrogance I suppose.

In the grand scheme of things I'm just a small fish in an ocean--FOR NOW. But I DO take exception to people acting like a big fish in a small pond-- whether they're a veteran or not. And coming from a manufacturing background I've ran across veterans who've been at a job for decades-- and still don't know squat and refuse to adapt to new ways.

So if you think I'm still arrogant, God bless you. Cuz in this case... doesn't really matter.

Troll (Internet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."
While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions and harassment outside of an online context. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[5][6]


Now, in this particular thread, Monti, I have not been trolling. We were discussing a difference of perspectives... My intent was NOT to evoke an emotional response from you, Nor do I see any evidence of actually flaming you.... Whatever you read in other threads...(you know there a big difference there) But it Has nothing to do with this thread...

I still stand by my original statement: I'm not trolling here. You just don't agree with my posts... Its fine if you don't agree ...(You were never required to agree or disagree either way... ).

One thing I have noticed here... You have posted your ideas from what appears to be a business perspective... Unfortunately, us 'little dogs" are primarily musical artists... so the language is inclined to get muddled...

The arrogance I speak of, probably goes back to your statement about the "big dogs" It implied that all of us are "less than", from your angle... Not sure if you meant it like that...but is a safe bet that poses the risk of misunderstanding.

Two things ...

First .. the OP asked if a producer has value, the answer is YES, he does if he knows what he is doing and the more he knows and the more his name is recognized in the industry the more value he has but he also cost more money.

Second .. if you can't monetize your efferts then you can't make a living off your craft. So then you have to get a day job ... which reduces the time that you can spend learning about music ... which is a life long pursuit ... it seems the more your know the less you really know about music. There is a big noticeable difference in ability between a musican that plays for a living and one that does it part time or as a hobbie. I think that is what is being missed by many new musicians that haven't been able to monetize their effert and didn't come throught the 60's to 90's when there was real money to be made and provided a decent life if you had, the chops, the right attitude, performace experience, volume control, business approach, and monster ears for a musical conversation with the other players

and Monti ... music is much more than running 3 chord arpeggios, which is probably a loop, for 3 mins and thinking it a great song ... sorry but my 6 year granddaughter can do that.

Dane do you see how you are?


Yod I'm retired I've already made it
ask DEA. I didn't do it in music, I was smart
enough to reconize their was easier ways of making
big money. I play music now and am working at it,
about 4 years, I've been retired for about 3 years.

I am having some difficulty in my relationships, since when
I was in busy I would buy you or walk over you whatever
it took to succeed. ( And Dane you were so inconsequential
in the business when it was big, that you have no idea of
who I am) This type of attitude isn't working for me in the music
business, it's something I have to work on.

But Mr Yod in all seriosness I'm 53 and been around the world,
ther's not a whole lot I ain't seen or done(better hold on to my
ass, somebody will dupe me tommorow). It's been a great life.
You play in church, the people come to worship God and Jesus,
you are just a sideshow(and you know it). You could say in the bars
there just coming to drink, and I'd agree with you. But when you
play a show doing your own music originals covers a mix, whatever
and they paid to see you that's music whether they serve
alcohol or not.

I'm not a drunk, yet I drink wine almost every night, I partake in
the hippie lettuce, other than that I don't even take aspirin,
I workout like a big dog, am a vegatarian in the best shape
of my life physically and financially, maybe I need to work a little
more on my mentality, but hey 2 out of 3 ain't bad.(Keep talkin
like that and I'm liable to die tommorow).

I really don't have a problem with anybody on this forum (except
maybe Dane and that Newfy). If you attack me I attack back
and I ain't backing down to anyone, I have my opinions, you
have yours, to say you feel sorry me shows how small and
conceited you are, it's for your benefit and you personna.

Dane you know what you are, and always have been, and always
will be, it's why your where your at in life, no matter what you
espouse about your self on this forum. I'm here where I've been
the last 50 years my actions speak louder than my words.

If a producer came along and wanted my music/soul, I'd just make sure he gets the SECOND million $$$!

NOW this thread is offically fuct. lol