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hmmm....the board says "debug mode" and the post isn't showing up

there it goes again...

the boards did weird things....wish I could delete these last 3 (duplicate) posts but my only option is to edit them.

Yod you are wrong about Mark Farner, my cousin's husband
was Marks best friend growing up in Michigan, he played drums
for Mark originally ( though he says he's played in bigger MI bands),
and got drafted to Nam. He always tells the story of coming
back from Nam and sitting in his Dad's house in Flint, with all the
blinds pulled and Mark pulled up to the house in a liumo they'd
hit it big, while he was in Nam.

Here are the facts:

""Although the band won its freedom from Terry Knight in 1974, the price was steep. Besides a large cash settlement, Knight was awarded the rights and royalties to every Grand Funk recording made while he was the band's manager and producer. In addition, he received all of the publishing royalties and copyrights to all the songs that were written by Farner, Brewer, and Schacher while they were under his management.""


Your hearsay anecdotal evidence might be 100% correct, but that was either a rented limo or bought on record company money that is considered "recoupable" from any money the band would make. In other words, that limo was bought or rented with a loan in advance of royalties that Mark would never get.

It's a little rougher out here playing the honky tonk circuit than it is the
church circuit.

How much do you play out, Leonard? Have you done even a hundred concerts in your entire life?

I did bars for 15 years between 1975 and 1990 and played my first thousand gigs before I was 20. Had a house gig in Beaumont TX doing 4 hours nightly, 6 days a week, for 3 years starting when I was 17, the whole band needed parental releases to get in!?! We were doing mostly original music I had written even then. Got bored with it and started touring with a country band before finding a touring rock band from Dallas and moving there in 1981 to continue playing bars in the big city for the next 9 years. I know a little bit about it, bro.

There has never been a time in my life when I wasn't playing professionally except for a couple of years in the early 90s when I wanted it that way.

Some things are universally true, no matter what genre or venue you're playing. If you think I'm leading you astray, you can always ignore me.

Producers don't produce anything, it's your product,

Tell that to Grank Funk or the Beatles....

Yod you are wrong about Mark Farner, my cousin's husband was Marks best friend growing up in Michigan, he played drums for Mark originally ( though he says he's played in bigger MI bands), and got drafted to Nam. He always tells the story of coming
back from Nam and sitting in his Dad's house in Flint, with all the
blinds pulled and Mark pulled up to the house in a liumo they'd
hit it big, while he was in Nam.

WTH has Farner/Grand Funk got to do with talk about TODAY and producers? Terry Knight was the brains behind Grand Funk.

I told that to you Yod.

And I'm sure evrything you read is more accurate than what the
people who lived it say.


Sh#t Yod I could care less about your musical career,
we all have stories, hell my band won the talent show in
6th grade (about 1970) we weren't worth sh#t, but we rocked.

You talk as big of sh#t on here as anybody Yod, still I'm not impressed.
The only correaltion between rock n roll and praise music, is that praise
music is sh#tty "produced" rock n roll by lesser talented players. If it
was enjoyed by the mainstream we'd here more of it outside the
church.

I'm not into your religous bullshit, live it don't talk about it.
Or live the wildlife, but don't talk about it.

Well guess I'll search thru here again in a couple of weeks or
so, or not.

Too many on this forum hide behind their religion, I've been into
numerolgy lately, listen to it's influence on Bach's music.

Hearsay that's all this forum is, isn't it? I don't care if you believe
me or not, or Mr Yod what you think about me, at phukking all.

Have a Nice Day

well before I go Mr Yod I read that remark about my playing
out over a 100 times. What's it to you, you'd just call me a liar,
and I got nothing to prove to nobody, but myself.

Your sure a good talker, probably not much of a doer.
You fit well with the other good talkers. A 100 times ain't sh#t Yod,
you probably should have found a way to make some real money,
that way you could play music on your own terms now that your
in your 50s, and not have to worry about the money.

So keep on running your mouth at me Yoad, and I'll get off this
forum for a few weeks and go back to living the goodlife, looking at the world from the top down.

well before I go Mr Yod I read that remark about my playing
out over a 100 times. What's it to you, you'd just call me a liar,
and I got nothing to prove to nobody, but myself.

Your sure a good talker, probably not much of a doer.
You fit well with the other good talkers. A 100 times ain't sh#t Yod,
you probably should have found a way to make some real money,
that way you could play music on your own terms now that your
in your 50s, and not have to worry about the money.

So keep on running your mouth at me Yoad, and I'll get off this
forum for a few weeks and go back to living the goodlife, looking at the world from the top down.

It's you who keeps running your mouth, when you should be working on your reading comprehension.

Frankly, if you're going to be an arrogant a**hole, it doesn't matter what you think. You're unprofessional in every way possible and driven by envy.

I've told you the truth about the music business that you wish you were part of. Deal with it. I'm done trying to help you.

talking about a topic derail...

talking about a topic derail...

It happens all the time... Its what makes this site so cool... I tend to believe it keeps prima-donnas in check, newbies (to music) in a challenge and growth mode, and a reason for the vets to wake up another day.... hee hee!

WTH has Farner/Grand Funk got to do with talk about TODAY and producers? Terry Knight was the brains behind Grand Funk.

It is relevant because, unfortunately, this practice isn't only in the collective past.

There are still Producers, Managers, and Record labels who will only work with people that are willing to sign away their life and livelihood.

Nowadays they are offering what is called the "360 deal". Basically what that means is that they produce a record for you and then get their cut of EVERYTHING you make in the entire circle of your musical life.

In other words they not only own a part of your record sales but now also your t-shirt sales, your pay from the venue, your songwriter royalties, etc.

They are taking a management cut without managing you.


Terry Knight was a music-biz crook, imo, but at least he managed Grank Funk into fame before screwing them out of their music and money.

WTH has Farner/Grand Funk got to do with talk about TODAY and producers? Terry Knight was the brains behind Grand Funk.

It is relevant because, unfortunately, this practice isn't only in the collective past.

There are still Producers, Managers, and Record labels who will only work with people that are willing to sign away their life and livelihood.

Nowadays they are offering what is called the "360 deal". Basically what that means is that they produce a record for you and then get their cut of EVERYTHING you make in the entire circle of your musical life.

In other words they not only own a part of your record sales but now also your t-shirt sales, your pay from the venue, your songwriter royalties, etc.

They are taking a management cut without managing you.


Terry Knight was a music-biz crook, imo, but at least he managed Grank Funk into fame before screwing them out of their music and money.

There really is only one way to stop that terrible practice... Go into the Labels locations and open fire with an automatic weapon...Maybe toss in a few grenades... What do ya think? LOL!

I think I am glad for once, it's not me with the "Martini w/ Extra Belligerence".

"Put them both in a barrel and whoever comes out is the winner". lol

WTH has Farner/Grand Funk got to do with talk about TODAY and producers? Terry Knight was the brains behind Grand Funk.

It is relevant because, unfortunately, this practice isn't only in the collective past.

There are still Producers, Managers, and Record labels who will only work with people that are willing to sign away their life and livelihood.

Nowadays they are offering what is called the "360 deal". Basically what that means is that they produce a record for you and then get their cut of EVERYTHING you make in the entire circle of your musical life.

In other words they not only own a part of your record sales but now also your t-shirt sales, your pay from the venue, your songwriter royalties, etc.

They are taking a management cut without managing you.


Terry Knight was a music-biz crook, imo, but at least he managed Grank Funk into fame before screwing them out of their music and money.

There really is only one way to stop that terrible practice... Go into the Labels locations and open fire with an automatic weapon...Maybe toss in a few grenades... What do ya think? LOL!

Heh. This is why I'm wary of anybody shopping around for a producer... So I don't do it. And to be perfectly honest, with information and tools online, only somebody incredibly lazy would let somebody rob them at this point.

Not all producers "rob" people, so that's not a fair statement.

I realize the independent nature of musicians who want to "do it yourself" and it's not a bad thing to educate yourself on the process of producing.

But my point is that those who specialize in any area are going to be better at it than those who dabble once in a while. While you are spending hours upon hours rehearsing those amazing guitar licks, dealing with a band, getting gigs lined up, working on songs and arrangements, etc, there is someone else who is spending their entire life learning all the aspects of being a producer.

If you think you (not any person specifically, but anyone) can produce as well as George Martin because you've got some gear and read some books then you're delusional. A REAL producer is light years ahead of the jack-of-all-trades who does his own album. If all you want is a demo to get out and play locally, then who needs a producer? Any engineer will do.

But what I'd really like people here to understand is that a REAL producer works with all aspects of the music business and has contacts that the REAL artist needs when the album is finished. Hiring a REAL producer can shorten the process of becoming a full-time artist quicker than any other factor, which makes it worth the price of having one.

And yes, I also understand that adding a few thousand to the price of a recording can mean it doesn't get done quickly. But if you're truly going for world class it's still the fastest way to get past the recording stage and into the touring one. How much time/money you spend on making your product GREAT says a lot about how far you deserve to go in the biz.

Assuming that someone/anyone here has the goal of being more than local yokels?


Otherwise, it's no crime to just go have fun and try to learn something....