United States

That's a wise strategy for starters, Dog, and your music is good so you'll get more contacts from those places as you go. Your approach is start small and let it grow, and it will if you are diligent and patient. If you didn't believe in your songs and ability, you wouldn't be investing in it at all, would ya?

Since this is a thread about producers, I will repeat that spending a few thousand more on a (real) Producer could have advanced your career farther and faster than the strictly DIY approach to save cash.

The right Producer can even make a "dead horse" live again. I think you'll have a good product that represents you and sells well at concerts. But had you used the right Producer, you'd be negotiating opportunities he helped you get when he heard how good your CD ended up being.

Thanks YOD...what you've said here does give me hope, after all.. I will take this wisdom of yours and work it into the next project... I do think that this CD i'm working now, should offer a compelling case , when and if I should ask a producer to financially back me, up front..

So how would I go about hiring a producer? Would I just give him a CD with my crappily produced song ideas on it, and just let him have at it?

Since this is a thread about producers, I will repeat that spending a few thousand more on a (real) Producer could have advanced your career farther and faster than the strictly DIY approach to save cash.

Couldn't disagree with you more and it depends on certain factors.

If you're doing a genre that's not popular in your area no producer is going to touch it. This is also links into goals... such as... who's the target audience... WHERE would you like your music heard? How fast do you want to reach your goal? Would you still go on even if you have absolutely no resources?

If your goal is to be signed and get heard on the radio... then the above statement is true. I myself REFUSE to be signed because to make a long story short, I can't stand the thought of having other people make more money of my music than I do.

If you already have a vision... and you have resources to hone your vision then you don't need one. Not saying it's gonna be easier--it's not-- but the long term the money you make is YOURS (minus taxes of course).

Now in this thread I had heard about music sounding GOOD. That's not the producer's job. That's the mixing and mastering engineer's. If you have trained your ears-- or went to school for Audio Production-- you have a distinct advantage of making your vision sound GOOD. (Taste is subjective)

I'll give you a real life example: Henta Ellis. She is a Grammy Nominated artist who had her album, Laserium For The Soul, Produced by herself in her house. She didn't NEED a producer... but she had a Mastering engineer.

The only reason I'll refuse to say Dog is completely wrong is because there is NO one way to be successful. There isn't.

What I WILL say is this: Get a Mixing Engineer and a Mastering Engineer. Not a producer.

lol bumpity-bump-bump..

lol bumpity-bump-bump..

LOL!

Since this is a thread about producers, I will repeat that spending a few thousand more on a (real) Producer could have advanced your career farther and faster than the strictly DIY approach to save cash.

Couldn't disagree with you more and it depends on certain factors.

If you're doing a genre that's not popular in your area no producer is going to touch it. This is also links into goals... such as... who's the target audience... WHERE would you like your music heard? How fast do you want to reach your goal? Would you still go on even if you have absolutely no resources?

If your goal is to be signed and get heard on the radio... then the above statement is true. I myself REFUSE to be signed because to make a long story short, I can't stand the thought of having other people make more money of my music than I do.

If you already have a vision... and you have resources to hone your vision then you don't need one. Not saying it's gonna be easier--it's not-- but the long term the money you make is YOURS (minus taxes of course).

Now in this thread I had heard about music sounding GOOD. That's not the producer's job. That's the mixing and mastering engineer's. If you have trained your ears-- or went to school for Audio Production-- you have a distinct advantage of making your vision sound GOOD. (Taste is subjective)

I'll give you a real life example: Henta Ellis. She is a Grammy Nominated artist who had her album, Laserium For The Soul, Produced by herself in her house. She didn't NEED a producer... but she had a Mastering engineer.

The only reason I'll refuse to say Dog is completely wrong is because there is NO one way to be successful. There isn't.

What I WILL say is this: Get a Mixing Engineer and a Mastering Engineer. Not a producer.

I do agree many factors decide different fate... My approach will probably work in my town, but not in your town... for example. BTW, if you believe in world class success, you'll prolly have to drop that notion about holding on to 'all' the money.. Not gonna happen.. Songwriters are in the wholesale business, Labels are in the retail biz.. (promoters are in the HO-sale biz But If you can swing all three biziness , More power to ya... And of course the hospital will be glad to take it all away from ya..when you have a break down


Me, I 'd rather focus on my craft and let everybody else get crazy about it.. Long as I get my 2 percent or whatever...fine by me.

So how would I go about hiring a producer? Would I just give him a CD with my crappily produced song ideas on it, and just let him have at it?

That is really the big question, right? Before I attempt it, let me speak to this statement from our brother joining the conversation

If you're doing a genre that's not popular in your area no producer is going to touch it.

That assumes I'm talking about being a local band with a good CD. Anyone who has a grammy-award winning CD has a great producer, even if it is themselves. I'm not saying a self-produced project can't be great, but that artist would need more than dumb luck, or have someone who understands production. In the case you mention, it could be that the Mastering Engineer is a great producer but not charging for that service. Hard to say without knowing the situation but I don't think we should assume they didn't have Producer experience on that project.





OK the answer Jazz, is that there is no one answer. Chances are that they don't live in Danville, but you might be surprised. It will take some investigation but anything worth doing takes time, right?

Do you have guys you play with regularly that you want to work with that are truly studio-level? By that I mean they are so professional that they can hear an idea once and play a useful part on the first or second take.

If not, it would be better to hire musicians, imo, but as long as your drummer's meter is perfect you can hide other weaknesses in a band.

I don't really know you very well but a jazz keyboard player can probably program a full-band on a midi-keyboard all by himself, and just dump the whole thing during pre-production. Then later you could have live musicians add a part here & there as you feel necessary. If that was what you wanted to do, then you only need an engineer to work with and could produce a very nice demo that will get you working immediately for a low price.

If, however, you could locate a Producer within an area you are willing to be in for the duration of a recording (like 2 or 3 weeks at least) that has worked with groups you respect and can show consistent ability to produce a sound you're going for, then that person ought to have real-world contacts that can help you when it's done.

Often the time they save you by knowing the ropes offsets the amount of money you'd spend making mistakes in a cheaper studio. In other words, you could ultimately get a great project done cheaper using a Producer at a place that perhaps even charges more per hour because he knows how to be efficient.

Again, it depends on whether you're going for a product to get you working locally and start building a foundation for something greater...or you're really going for the brass ring right now. Spending a lot of money doesn't necessarily guarantee you will have a great album, but having a great Producer puts you ahead of 90% of the music being made pretty quickly.

How far you want to go, and how fast, is no one's decision but yours.

Since this is a thread about producers, I will repeat that spending a few thousand more on a (real) Producer could have advanced your career farther and faster than the strictly DIY approach to save cash.

Couldn't disagree with you more and it depends on certain factors.

If you already have a vision... and you have resources to hone your vision then you don't need one. Not saying it's gonna be easier--it's not-- but the long term the money you make is YOURS (minus taxes of course).

Now in this thread I had heard about music sounding GOOD. That's not the producer's job. That's the mixing and mastering engineer's. If you have trained your ears-- or went to school for Audio Production-- you have a distinct advantage of making your vision sound GOOD. (Taste is subjective)

What I WILL say is this: Get a Mixing Engineer and a Mastering Engineer. Not a producer.

+1 vote best of bandmix.

I love producers but not if they don't share your vision.
And if you can write a tune that is decent, the mixing/mastering engineer finishes the product like applying icing to the cake.

Once the proverbial cake is finished, I am right back in the dark again but I only really ever cared about the music/performance to begin with.

The mixing and mastering engineer(s) do their thing.

Finding a producer who shares your vision - or who wants to craft your vision into something bigger/better - is the challenge.

The producer will listen to your song and say 'make that lead guitar part twice as long' or ' shorten up those verses, they go on too long, but add another chorus at the end, and liven it up with some backing voices' - those types of things that improve a song without changing it fundamentally.

The mixing and mastering engineer(s) do their thing.

Finding a producer who shares your vision - or who wants to craft your vision into something bigger/better - is the challenge.

The producer will listen to your song and say 'make that lead guitar part twice as long' or ' shorten up those verses, they go on too long, but add another chorus at the end, and liven it up with some backing voices' - those types of things that improve a song without changing it fundamentally.

That's one very small aspect of what a Producer does. A great Producer knows everyone's job and can usually do them as good or better.

But if you really want to go for the brass ring right now, find the studio(s) in the larger cites around you with the most successful track record. If they don't impress, go to a bigger city and repeat until you've found someone who gets what you do and has some skins on the wall.



OK...just spent less than .o6 nanoseconds doing a search for "most successful music producers" and it has a list of contacts (for sale, of course) of the biggest names in the business. If any one of these people were to produce your project and you have the slightest amount of talent, you would most likely be signed before it got through mastering.

http://www.allmusicindustrycontacts.com ... oducer.htm

It wouldn't take much work to track them down without buying that list, btw, just wanted you to see what caliber of Producer I'm talking about.

Here is a list of the top 10 for 2010
http://top40.about.com/od/top10lists/tp ... f-2010.htm

These folks don't work cheap...and they're worth every penny because you'd get a life-long career out of working with them, as opposed to making a local record that you have trouble selling even locally.

Not many Producers will work with people whom they don't think are ready for prime time, but could point you to someone else they know who may, if asked.

You might be surprised at how many Producers would give you a return phone call to see what you're about. The ones on these lists are probably booked for the next couple of years though.

The mixing and mastering engineer(s) do their thing.

Finding a producer who shares your vision - or who wants to craft your vision into something bigger/better - is the challenge.

The producer will listen to your song and say 'make that lead guitar part twice as long' or ' shorten up those verses, they go on too long, but add another chorus at the end, and liven it up with some backing voices' - those types of things that improve a song without changing it fundamentally.

Heh... and honestly sometimes you don't need a producer to do that.

I do agree many factors decide different fate... My approach will probably work in my town, but not in your town... for example. BTW, if you believe in world class success, you'll prolly have to drop that notion about holding on to 'all' the money.. Not gonna happen..

Says who? The mainstream labels? They're the LAST ones I trust.

Songwriters are in the wholesale business, Labels are in the retail biz.. (promoters are in the HO-sale biz But If you can swing all three biziness , More power to ya... And of course the hospital will be glad to take it all away from ya..when you have a break down

Only if you hadn't researched and jumped in being naive. Make no mistake, not everybody can do all three... I wouldn't be able to after a certain point, but until then it's possible.

Me, I 'd rather focus on my craft and let everybody else get crazy about it.. Long as I get my 2 percent or whatever...fine by me.

And this is what the old industry is banking on. Currently I'm about to research how money from sales overseas might not totally reach the artists and the labels might be double dipping. This is important to me because half of my sales come from overseas.

It's understandable honing your music... but you're in the music Business. Me, I get concerned if anybody's making more money off of my hard work than me.

(end topic derail; sorry )

So how would I go about hiring a producer? Would I just give him a CD with my crappily produced song ideas on it, and just let him have at it?

1. I have to ask... how long have you been practicing? Usually one is said to be good in his craft when they had devoted seven years practicing as such.

2. Do you know what your vision is? I say this because during the time you were honing your craft... by the time you were confident in what you're doing your vision should already be mapped out in your mind.


3. It would be best if you know how to mix. Even though I had some schooling--and practicing since '96-- you should learn things about the recording chain and different effects. Personally, as an Electronic Artist/Musician, actually learning that helped define my style. In your case it could polish up what you think is the rough spots.

This is just advice... I know people are gonna tell you one specific way of doing things in this business.. (I'd learned to be suspicious when people say that.) Do what you wanna do...

It's understandable honing your music... but you're in the music Business. Me, I get concerned if anybody's making more money off of my hard work than me.

(end topic derail; sorry )

That's entirely part of the topic, so no worries mate.


But EVERYONE is making more money on your music than you, if you are making any money at all outside of your own concerts.

When a CD is sold in a store, the stores get the lion's share, about 40%
The distributor gets 20-25%, leaving the labels with about 30-35% typically and then the artist gets their "points" out of that (anywhere from 3 to 15%) at the end of it all.

Problem is that the artists don't usually see that because the label claims "recoupments" on fees that they can invent. For example, most labels today have a "packaging fee" of at least 20k. Do you know what that is? That is what they charge for deciding what the cover should be.

Don't know about you but I did that AND had the cover graphically designed for $300 on my last indie project.

These hidden fees are not specifically detailed in an artist contract so the artist could sign thinking there will be some money at the end of the rainbow, only to find out that the label has come up with fees which have the artist oweing them huge sums even after significant sales.

Yod you are wrong about Mark Farner, my cousin's husband
was Marks best friend growing up in Michigan, he played drums
for Mark originally ( though he says he's played in bigger MI bands),
and got drafted to Nam. He always tells the story of coming
back from Nam and sitting in his Dad's house in Flint, with all the
blinds pulled and Mark pulled up to the house in a liumo they'd
hit it big, while he was in Nam.

I wonder what else your wrong about, Dick Dale says sign nothing
with nobody, I believe him.

It's a little rougher out here playing the honky tonk circuit than it is the
church circuit. The crowd is so much more unpredictable, I guess it's
the alcohol.

Producers don't produce anything, it's your product, and there is
a million ways to sell it, not all good musicains are great salesman.