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#172929 by neanderpaul
Sun May 13, 2012 4:32 am
Alright, sorry for the delay. I gave it a listen a few days ago. I didn't like it. I wanted to give it a rest and come back for a thorough critique as you requested.

The first thing I heard was a dark opening. Nothing special but not bad. Kind of fusing grunge and metal. Could've gone either way. It went both ways. I didn't like the guitar tone. Too chorusy? And not enough tubes. Just sounds digital to me. The opening vocal "oohs" were ok. Cliched from twenty years ago. The vocals are pretty queensryche Geoff Tate. The immediate thing I notice are consistent pitch issues.

My opinion is that either a singer can hear pitch and has control or they don't. My opinion is that musicianship can honed and refined and grow and grow to greatness. I feel like vocals are not that way. Either they are good or they are not. There is an amount of refining that can be done but the bulk of it, the ear and control, has to be there from the get go in order for someone to be a "lead" singer.

For instance. the melody at :51 "dark of the night" is noncommittal and reckless. I can't even imagine the melody he was going for. He follows it up with a repeat of the melody at :58 "stares at the light" and I understand the melody he was attempting. It's a weak melody but I get it.

At 1:03 "As tears stream down (the?) face." The word "down" is WAY off key. He follows it up with the same melody "will she ever leave this place" and that whole melody is on key. the word "again" that ends the phrase is seriously weak.

The guitar on the chorus there is kind of digital hazy but the riff is pretty beast. I dig it in a primal adolescent way. It would sound way better cranked through a good tube amp with very little effects. Maybe a touch of reverb and the gain on the amp cranked. The riff is beast though.

The negative space is boss too. The clean guitar doing it's thing and the distorted one coming in and out is right on time.

The pitch issues are consistent. I won't continue to point them out.

Sounds like the vocals peaked at 2:37 - 2:39 "all have to place the blame"? Which brings me to another point. It's very difficult to make out his lyrics. He also needs work on phrasing and pronunciation.

The bridge that starts at 3:05 is a welcome change. Very appropriate. Some excellent guitar parts in there. Tense, intense harmony parts in the chords.

Solo started out strong. Still don't like the processing. And it was pretty dated. Fairly solid playing but no surprises. Some well executed bends. Some sharp, some flat. But the whole solo was just too stuck in the eighties for me.

I can't hear the bass. I'm guessing the bass just doubled the rhythm. Nothing stood out to me.

The drums sound good. That is amazing for home recording. Only the toms sound "home recorded". Do you have a drum kit mic set? I liked all the drum parts. Nothing was mind blowing but almost everything was solid. I hate to say it but that old saying "if you don't notice the drummer he's doing it right" is true for me. I didn't hear him screw up.

In summary. I dislike the vocals a lot. The song is too long for me. Keep in mind I love a perfect 3:00 - 3:30 minute song. I'd love to hear you through some simple tube gear. I like the chorus riffs and a lot of the guitar work.

And I could go the rest of my life without hearing another pinched harmonic. :evil:

#172972 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun May 13, 2012 10:52 am
Ok so it goes just beyond your control, I'm not going to say anything.....

Just so you and your buddies realize, anything posted online anywhere, that includes u-tube, can be taken down with total ease. Sometimes even made to sound better. Just so they know.
That doesn't mean anyone can steal the rights to use your music in a movie etc.

By the way, We have crossed swords before when you have jumped on the bandwagon of momentary commentary.
Thats alright, I wanted to say that you are on an interesting musical track.
There is a lot of good things to say about your project. KUDOS GT. :)

#172973 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun May 13, 2012 10:59 am
GEEEEEZ!!!!!
The next time I need a real critical critique I'm going to Roanoke. :lol:

#172976 by JCP61
Sun May 13, 2012 12:09 pm
seriously, neanderpaul
engineer Scott would be totally in love with you. :lol:

I'm surprised you didn't mention that Gt forgot to what his lucky rocket ship underwear.
:lol:

#172977 by neanderpaul
Sun May 13, 2012 12:15 pm
Zip and I are quite cool. We respect each others ear and talent. I've given him another similarly thorough critique. That's why he asked! :D

#172991 by GuitarMikeB
Sun May 13, 2012 2:24 pm
Nice work. Any pitchiness in the vocals is really un-noticeable with the music, however the vocal does not 'sit in' the mix very well. Pumping everything through the same reverb plug in might help.
The bass could come up a touch.
Drums are panned too much, bring the overall width in - the roll off to high tom sounds like it's way off to the right. Unless you're in a 6-ft wide room, the drums should be more in the 'center' of the mix/room.

#172992 by gbheil
Sun May 13, 2012 2:24 pm
gtZip wrote:I don't have the authority to let it be downloadable.
More than just me involved.
Sorry.


DANGIT !

#172995 by gbheil
Sun May 13, 2012 2:29 pm
neanderpaul wrote:Alright, sorry for the delay. I gave it a listen a few days ago. I didn't like it. I wanted to give it a rest and come back for a thorough critique as you requested.

The first thing I heard was a dark opening. Nothing special but not bad. Kind of fusing grunge and metal. Could've gone either way. It went both ways. I didn't like the guitar tone. Too chorusy? And not enough tubes. Just sounds digital to me. The opening vocal "oohs" were ok. Cliched from twenty years ago. The vocals are pretty queensryche Geoff Tate. The immediate thing I notice are consistent pitch issues.

My opinion is that either a singer can hear pitch and has control or they don't. My opinion is that musicianship can honed and refined and grow and grow to greatness. I feel like vocals are not that way. Either they are good or they are not. There is an amount of refining that can be done but the bulk of it, the ear and control, has to be there from the get go in order for someone to be a "lead" singer.

For instance. the melody at :51 "dark of the night" is noncommittal and reckless. I can't even imagine the melody he was going for. He follows it up with a repeat of the melody at :58 "stares at the light" and I understand the melody he was attempting. It's a weak melody but I get it.

At 1:03 "As tears stream down (the?) face." The word "down" is WAY off key. He follows it up with the same melody "will she ever leave this place" and that whole melody is on key. the word "again" that ends the phrase is seriously weak.

The guitar on the chorus there is kind of digital hazy but the riff is pretty beast. I dig it in a primal adolescent way. It would sound way better cranked through a good tube amp with very little effects. Maybe a touch of reverb and the gain on the amp cranked. The riff is beast though.

The negative space is boss too. The clean guitar doing it's thing and the distorted one coming in and out is right on time.

The pitch issues are consistent. I won't continue to point them out.

Sounds like the vocals peaked at 2:37 - 2:39 "all have to place the blame"? Which brings me to another point. It's very difficult to make out his lyrics. He also needs work on phrasing and pronunciation.

The bridge that starts at 3:05 is a welcome change. Very appropriate. Some excellent guitar parts in there. Tense, intense harmony parts in the chords.

Solo started out strong. Still don't like the processing. And it was pretty dated. Fairly solid playing but no surprises. Some well executed bends. Some sharp, some flat. But the whole solo was just too stuck in the eighties for me.

I can't hear the bass. I'm guessing the bass just doubled the rhythm. Nothing stood out to me.

The drums sound good. That is amazing for home recording. Only the toms sound "home recorded". Do you have a drum kit mic set? I liked all the drum parts. Nothing was mind blowing but almost everything was solid. I hate to say it but that old saying "if you don't notice the drummer he's doing it right" is true for me. I didn't hear him screw up.

In summary. I dislike the vocals a lot. The song is too long for me. Keep in mind I love a perfect 3:00 - 3:30 minute song. I'd love to hear you through some simple tube gear. I like the chorus riffs and a lot of the guitar work.

And I could go the rest of my life without hearing another pinched harmonic. :evil:




I respect Paul a lot ...

I'm also glad that I am just talented enough to just enjoy music without trying to squeeze it into a box or butcher it's intent.


No offense intended of course. I realize you asked him ( Paul ) in particular for a critique.
And he is definitely one of the men for the job around here.

#173021 by neanderpaul
Sun May 13, 2012 4:52 pm
None taken George. :D
I still enjoy music more than any other hobby. I can also listen just for the feel of it. I also remember when I was unable to break it down into its parts. Before I could really hear it. Now I have both options. I can also hear all the parts of a song in my head before any of it is recorded or even played.

#173030 by gtZip
Sun May 13, 2012 6:03 pm
I greatly appreciate the breakdown and the time you spent with this, Paul.

That was exactly what I asked for, kids, and I got it.

Also, thank you Klugmo, paperdog, jsantos, and even Glenny for your lengthy replies.
Hell, thank you to everyone in general.

Me and neanderpaul are cool, and most of what he had to say was dead on.
singer woes are the name of the game around this area. At least for rock music.

#173031 by gtZip
Sun May 13, 2012 6:07 pm
Oh, and thanks to guitarmike.

And... Yes its a drum mic kit, Paul.

#173081 by jw123
Mon May 14, 2012 12:58 pm
GT, it sounds like Queensryche to me, the way the vocals go from spoken to singing. Vocals I would at least suggest some comp/limiting to make it sit in the mix better.

I like the initial guitar riff, but the crunchy guitar isnt what I wanted to hear, I cant put my finger on it, but it just sounds too processed to my ears. Play around with the guitar eq some.

Good song, good arrangement, other than like others said, maybe a better mid 8 or bridge to it, the song does sound dated, but good job.

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