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#170661 by J-HALEY
Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:18 am
PaperDog wrote:
Vampier Wrote: I firmly believe that this is true and as such makes the entire affair even more complex and important while explaining a bit the ""why"" it is occuring and the attention and overall weirdness that pervades throughout. I do not understand it completely and only "feel" I do in part. It is a good subject and I am very interested to see what posts result.


Vampier, and others... here is some food for thought... (Strictly my speculation)

The leader of cartel: "Los Zetas" is Alejandro Trevino. At one time he was a soldier for the Mexican Elite Army . He received Special Ops training right here, in the US, courtesy of Uncle Sam, and the U.S.Mexico alliance treaties that exchange military training.

This man is an expert in Explosives, Communications, Prisoner rescue, warfare tactics and is responsible for ordering thousands of killings in and around Nuevo Laredo (which appears to be is Zeta HQ) and Juarez.

Never mind that this is the work of a sociopath... Here is the real kicker... What we have been calling illegal immigration on our side, is more or less an 'exodus" from their side.

The real war in Mexico began as a Class warfare. In Mexico, you are either wealthy or poor...there is no middle class. In Mexico @15% of pop is actually wealthy (maybe 2 % are not govt) ...The rest are poor.
In Mexico, A rich man views a poor man as an 'undesirable' So, he stabs the undesirable man in the back by kicking him out of the social circle. Enter Colonias...Here, the down trodden shall gather... The next step...America! For years We have been absorbing the rejected of Mexico.

Now, Along comes an undesirable, who has a mind and talent for destruction, sociopathic tendencies, and a vile hatred against his castigators (The Mexican Wealthy and the Mexican Govt (who is in bed with the wealthy) ). Fully armed and trained, this guy has turned class warfare into a civil warfare. It became evident when Mexico's very corrupt police force started dropping dead from copious amounts of assassinations.

When we read about a dozen decapitated torsos getting dug up, this is no longer about serial killing and its not about deliberate target discernment on somebody's hit-list... It is a grand sweep against an entire movement.

The war consists of a four-fold adversarial components and context:
1) Cartel Orgs Battling each other for control over key strategic geographical turf, for the purpose of drug sale & distribution
2) Civil forces (i.e Police) who burned political and economic candles at both ends... They extorted the Cartels for years under the Protection of the Mexican Govt. After bleeding the Cartels, they betrayed them further by taking sides and alliance (cooperation) of the Cartels... Today, no police officer in Mexico is safe (nor his family)
3) The Mexican Govt, also betrayed the Cartels and took sides , showing generous support to the Highest Bidders... The Zetas, Sinolio cartels ... One is a rebel force, the other is an Empire force... metaphorically speaking... Thus the fight now extends beyond drug corridors and is a geo-political war as well.
4) Civilian population, currently unarmed and not allowed to own weapons... This has spawned some fringe groups, who add gasoline to the existing fire. Anybody remember the group "Anonymous"? Those guys are the hackers who threatened and IT /Communications war against the Zetas. They backed down...

Out of Diplomatic and alliance protocol, The U.S. Government will naturally support the Mexican Government. If the Mexican Government opts to support the Zetas, then Guess who the US Government will be supporting?

Fast and Furious was a botched delivery from the US. I have no doubt the Mexican Govt requested those weapons, and I have no doubt it was for the cartel they are supporting.


AGAIN I SAY mexico SUCKS! :twisted:

I don't need Jack Sh!t from that part of the desert I think we should turn to glass!

#170662 by PaperDog
Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:29 am
AGAIN I SAY mexico SUCKS!

I don't need Jack Sh!t from that part of the desert I think we should turn to glass!


Well, Jeff... Tell us how you 'really' feel. LOL! :lol:

#170678 by Slacker G
Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:27 pm
I did a search. Do not go here if you are squeamish. This page has some follow ups on the cartels, along with the pictures that would send a rather strong message to anyone. But it could be Photo shopped. (Near bottom)

However these articles give a real indication of the violence in Mexico.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/
#170688 by Vampier
Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:36 pm
...this is a very good thread and quite interesting to hear the various posts. I for one find it very impressive ... good one PaperDog.

3-Haley ...your answer would no doubt "solve" the problem on one level. I do not dispute that. I do feel however that such a solution will never be put into action for a great variety of reasons. I hear you loud and clear and respect that you know what you are talking about since you are in the thick of it and have been for quite some time. The "government" will never allow the "mess" to stop being a mess until they are ready to bring the heel of the totalitarian jackboot down. It is the oldest strategy in the world ... keep your potential or declared enemies fighting amongst themselves. I readily admit that there is something to be said for your simple and direct approach.

Sanshouheil ... you give an excellent appraisal and in eloquent style.

Mike Talbot ... I find the entire thing quite creepy and un-nerving as well. I lived in Sonoma for well over a decade and there were many "illegals" from Mexico working there ... in the wineries mainly in Napa and Sonoma. When I lived in San Francisco there were many there in the city as well. The older generations were actually very nice as a general rule. But I witnessed with much of the younger often American born offspring something much different...gangs etc. not very nice people ... male or female. These are general statements and obviously there are many exceptions but there is also great truth in them.

Everywhere I have seen this "mess" and continued Exodus as PaperDog puts it so well ... after a period of time the nest becomes fouled and a social/economic/environmental problem develops ... often of great proportions, Resentments and hatreds result and it just gets worse and worse along with everything else.

I believe that similiar situations have and are occurring in Germany with the Turks for instance, England with many of their former colonies ...the Greeks ... the French ... much of Europe are plagued with immigrants from the Middle East. I have witnessed this with my own eyes many times in many places.

3-Haley ... what film with Charlie Sheen ? I would very much like to see it.

PaperDog ... you have the best grip on this entire affair that I have ever heard. I think that many on each side of the Border would agree with you, if not completely then generally. Clearly everyone involved are mere puppets, some with more strings than others. I believe they are all being manipolated to create discord and to propogate greed and other highly valued objectives by the very few "Puppet Masters". This is all very very creepy and frustrating.

Pretty much all anyone desires is to live a good life and not be a puppet or a victim. Most do not mind working or being somewhat charitable but do mind being taken advantage of, manipulated, played and being thwarted at every turn while watching "what is" become "what was".

Slacker G ... The press in Mexico like the newspapers and mags have often the most graphic full colour photos in them. They are everywhere and it is one of the first things to "hit" you when you live there. Ta

#170689 by Starfish Scott
Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:38 pm
Can we arm the locals and form a "Militia" yet?

(you the ugly one, you're on .50 cal) lol

#170690 by PaperDog
Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:39 pm
Slacker G wrote:I did a search. Do not go here if you are squeamish. This page has some follow ups on the cartels, along with the pictures that would send a rather strong message to anyone. But it could be Photo shopped. (Near bottom)

However these articles give a real indication of the violence in Mexico.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/


Its gone back to the 12th century in Mexico... ,And Slacker, every stitch of it is real...(.No Photo shop...) There are a slew of videos filming many of these executions...It's immensely heart-wrenching, intensely sad, and an illustration of just how close evil resides within the human species.

As angry as I am about immigration issues...I am currently surrounded by innocent people here, who have fled Juarez... I cant look them in the eye and tell them to go back to their own country... Not like this...

I pray that soon, things will turn around and these evil people behind the murders get whats coming... The Sooner..the better...

#170696 by Starfish Scott
Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:53 pm
It'd be cool if we could go to Mexico for the day and shoot up a shitload of people and then quick come back across the border for dinner and a beer.

RELOAD.. "So whatcha' doing tomorrow?"

lol

#170705 by JCP61
Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:42 pm
don't tell me secession has been postponed in favor of a revisit to the spanish-american war?
we damn near lost that one, thanks a lot Mr Jefferson!

#170713 by gbheil
Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:21 pm
I resent being called "the ugly one" ( on the .50 ) :wink:

#172086 by Prevost82
Thu May 03, 2012 11:03 pm
J-Haley wrote:


The real war in Mexico began as a Class warfare. In Mexico, you are either wealthy or poor...there is no middle class. In Mexico @15% of pop is actually wealthy (maybe 2 % are not govt) ...The rest are poor.
In Mexico, A rich man views a poor man as an 'undesirable' So, he stabs the undesirable man in the back by kicking him out of the social circle. When we read about a dozen decapitated torsos getting dug up, this is no longer about serial killing and its not about deliberate target discernment on somebody's hit-list... It is a grand sweep against an entire movement.


We own a beach house in Mexico by Progreso on the Yucatan ... yes there are a lot of poor people there, they aren't starving to death and are getting by, but there is a lot of middle class as well ... well over a million people are middle class just in our area .. driving middle class cars and living in middle class homes and working middle class jobs.

Merida (1 million) is an hour away from us they had 1 murder last year ... no big city in Canada, or the US, can boost those numbers ...

I think you're painting Mexico with to broad of bush

#172087 by MikeTalbot
Thu May 03, 2012 11:09 pm
you can do a search on "Fred Reed" who is a pretty good writer (and former editor of my turgid prose for Soldier of Fortune) and find out much about life in Mex.

He loves it there but is finally starting to worry a bit. The violence is starting to expand to where the laughter may stop and the crying begin.

God bless them - it's tough times south of the border. (and not so sweet here anymore either)

George - I have a great deal of faith in the .50 MG from personal experience. But where to get one? Only the Euros and Liberals believe you can pick them up at a gun show!

Talbot
#172103 by Vampier
Fri May 04, 2012 12:20 am
The Frontier ... the area of Mexico that borders the States, also called imaginatively "The Border Zone". The rules in this area are different than farther south. I call this area Vichy-Mexico. Along the Texas Border it is brutal and no one on here is exaggerating I feel. Yucatan is far different and your appraisal is also correct. Mexico is huge and varied and it is impossible to generalize in this respect I feel. NAFTA is quite possibly the real danger and the border situation is being fueled to a great extent by the US Government along with the Cartels. Very soon everything will drastically change on both sides .....FM 3-39-40 Ta

#172104 by PaperDog
Fri May 04, 2012 12:24 am
MikeTalbot wrote:you can do a search on "Fred Reed" who is a pretty good writer (and former editor of my turgid prose for Soldier of Fortune) and find out much about life in Mex.

He loves it there but is finally starting to worry a bit. The violence is starting to expand to where the laughter may stop and the crying begin.

God bless them - it's tough times south of the border. (and not so sweet here anymore either)

George - I have a great deal of faith in the .50 MG from personal experience. But where to get one? Only the Euros and Liberals believe you can pick them up at a gun show!

Talbot


Mike, My current girlfriend owns a ranch down in the interior. She cant lease it and collect rent on it, and cant sell it... cause the Cartels get wind of the property sale, and kill anybody that refuses their terms. So it sits quietly in the desert, lo profile, until Mexico gets it act together...
I normally dont blame victims who sit at the brunt end of evil like this... But a whole FN country is on its knees at the hands of a few... At first, we point and say that The people don't fight for anything... But then we realize, this is proof -positive of what happens to a nation that bans guns and keeps weapons from its citizens. Mexican Army knows its the only way to keep distinctive power over citizens..
I cant stand the "Hefe" mentality of Latin Culture. I'm sorry, but that mentality is the phucking root of all evil..
#172122 by Vampier
Fri May 04, 2012 5:47 am
PaperDog ...I find myself in complete agreement with you and especially regarding the gun issue. If they had guns then they could protest themselves, their families and their property. It is a very hard thing to get used to, having the Militaire roam about armed to the teeth with their black ski masks on and not having a gun yourself. It makes it easy to understand how the single white glove thing can happen.

I know of several Mexicans with guns but they are geared for hunting promarily and not well matched in firepower to the military or the Cartels which are armed way better than even the military. Positive proof that under no circumstances should the American people let themselves get disarmed and it illustrates that the Constitution should be reclaimed and the filthy politicos and corporate scums along with their "puppets" should be tried and imprisoned for not only their crimes but also where applicable for their treason. Ta
#172124 by Vampier
Fri May 04, 2012 5:55 am
You are also completely correct about the Jefe mentality. It fits right in with the macho pig attitudes that seem to riddle the culture. The odd thing about that is that it seems that the Mother's are responsible for that more than anything ??? Ta

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