General Music Chat

As you probably know, recording vocals in a home studio environment gets you a vocal track that sounds like it is sitting outside of the music...
Like a cardboard roll sitting on top of the song.

If you aren't aware, and you record vox, well, then you need to work on your awareness.

Anyone have any home remedies for this?
Is it a trade secret of the big studios or something?

It seems like you have to pay some moola, and go to a real studio in order to get a good vocal sound.

Please listen to Scotts song and vote/Comment... (I'm asking everybody)

As you probably know, recording vocals in a home studio environment gets you a vocal track that sounds like it is sitting outside of the music...
Like a cardboard roll sitting on top of the song.

If you aren't aware, and you record vox, well, then you need to work on your awareness.

Anyone have any home remedies for this?
Is it a trade secret of the big studios or something?

It seems like you have to pay some moola, and go to a real studio in order to get a good vocal sound.

To get righteous vocal quality, you really gotta sound proof the room you sing the tracks in... Some guys I know, pad up/wire their walk-in closets and convert them into bonafide "singing booths" for their home studio

The key to all microphone recording is and always has been HEADROOM.
the recorded signal consists of 3 parts.
at the bottom, the sound you want and want to hear, in the middle, the sound you don't want and really can't hear, and at the top the headroom; or the silence that is the available space for sound.

you want a full bottom and lots of room up top for amplitude, and ideally nothing in the middle.


having said that,
there are a myriad of cures for lack of headroom, and the easiest way to go about fixing it is to identify where you're drowning the signal.

when recording with a mic, you always have echos. sound that bounces off wall and objects in the room, when these sounds get really bouncing around they filter into the subsonic.
but they still are picked up and recorded.
squashing the signal you want to hear into a smaller and smaller portion of the recorded signal.
thus it requires greater and greater gain to give you a proper level.
mud and more mud is the result.

how to fix?
you could buy one of those autotune boxes, they are digitizers, they can give a chance of using noise reduction and you get to cheat with your vocal as well.
depending on your set up this could work some or not at all.
buying an expensive ,mic is the last fix to try.

1st and foremost build a vocal booth.
expensive but worth it.
if you can't do that
build a booth just for the mic
small 3" foam lined box 24x24 or so.
and sing into it.
this shielding will yield results right away, even if awkward.

you must work hard to get only the vocal signal to tape,
the enemy is the sound you can't hear eating up the headroom.

As you probably know, recording vocals in a home studio environment gets you a vocal track that sounds like it is sitting outside of the music...
Like a cardboard roll sitting on top of the song.

If you aren't aware, and you record vox, well, then you need to work on your awareness.

Anyone have any home remedies for this?
Is it a trade secret of the big studios or something?

It seems like you have to pay some moola, and go to a real studio in order to get a good vocal sound.

there was only an instrumental on your BM site so I couldn't really judge what's happening with the vocals

What JCP has said is good advice and you should absolutely heed it, but I'm not sure if it addresses the mix problem your asking about. Clarity on each track can't hurt, though.

I used to send mixes to the record company thinking the vocals were plenty loud and they would want another 3 or 4 db on the vocal. The first time I'd hear it that way, it would hurt my ears but no one else seemed to notice or complain. So it's not a bad thing if the vocals stick out from the music like that...unless you're trying to hide a horrible voice. If that's the case, by all means turn it down!!!

The "secret" to a good vocal sound is mics and compressors but the mix is a separate issue that also needs attention. While having the right gear and a sound-proofed booth will help the individual vocal track sound better, it won't help your mix if you continue mixing the instruments too loud.

Try this: mix like you usually do, putting the vocal about where you think it should be. Then turn every other tracks down until you can barely distinguish what you hear on an individual track. Guitar players usually don't realize how much sonic space a guitar (especially a distorted one) takes up in the mix. When you can barely even tell it's there, then it's probably mixed right.

Be sure to spread them out in the sonic field (panning) so each track that doesn't need to be in the middle (usually bass drum, snare, bass gtr, lead vocal) has it's own place in the stereo image. Even a 5 degree difference will cause separation and you can turn it down while still hearing it clearly where it should be heard.

You'll find that each instrument will appear to step out naturally in places as if you had planned it that way. The vocals will also ride above the music but you'll be able to hear it clearer and adjust it accordingly.

I pretty much hate recording so I'm not sure how useful this will be but I have studied the process and have done quite a bit.

Lead vocal tracks are the most critical and the toughest to get right when recording. Sometimes a dead vocal booth and compression works well. Sometimes all you need is a good voice, good mic, a good room, and a little technique. Tweakheads has a pretty good checklist to get you in the game:
http://tweakheadz.com/how_to_record_vocals.htm

When mixing I really rely on a reference track from a great recording and do A/B comparisons. Abbey Road is a good album for me. YMMV When my levels match the platinum records levels and balance the result doesn't totally suck.

All of the tracks currently up on my BM page were recorded and mixed very quickly in my home studio for a video project and were necessarily mixed in mono (no panning). Sorry if this makes you crazy. I promise my next tunes will be stereo with panning.

Be sure to spread them out in the sonic field (panning) so each track that doesn't need to be in the middle (usually bass drum, snare, bass gtr, lead vocal) has it's own place in the stereo image. Even a 5 degree difference will cause separation and you can turn it down while still hearing it clearly where it should be heard.

Everyone should be doing this.
Thank You yod.

About 10 years ago, I bought what I thought was "everything" needed to have a great home studio. I had equipment on top of equipment. The one thing I let slip by was the building in which I would be recording within. Initially, the "Thin" sound of everything along with the constant battle with volume level mixes and the lack of ability to use a rich array of effects were a constant thing. I was so completely frustrated. I bought the best instrument mics I could afford such as the sennheiser E609, etc. It got better but still lacked that studio quality sound. I got online and spent about a week studying material on recording technics and properties and it was then that I realized my error. The error was in the building.
I started out by removing corners, leaving no 90 degree angles. I had already sound-proofed the room but in a basic and general way. I built angles along the walls and ceiling. I built a plexi booth for the drums and a small plexi cubical for the vocals. I learned ways to mic amps, also how to record vocals which I might add is a tricky business. First of all you need some sort of tube driven mic preamp, the next thing is learning the functions, what they do, etc., etc. of this preamp. Then you must understand that each person has a different voice with different vocal properties or attributes. In other words, some people having bigger mouths than others...LOL. Seriously, some have louder voices than others. This information is what you can use to choose the choice of Mic or Mic setting along with the Trim function. You also have a need of a compressor, and a noise gate. I personally get the vocal recording completed before using effects such as reverb, delay, etc. The vocals are tough to dial in, so to speak, to the mix but with time I finally was able to succeed. I tested my recording ability by performing a cover tune, think it was "Wish You Were Here" by Incubus. I allowed people to listen to the recording and they couldn`t tell the difference between the original and the real thing. I considered this a successful adventure.

In summary, recording is a skill that it simply takes time to achieve. Study all the info that you can about this skill. Experiment. Be patient and you will probably gain the ability. Be careful of what you practice and avoid bad habits or shortcuts. Good luck.
"Keep The Funk Alive!"

1. Get a good track laid down.
2. Once you have all the tracking done and you are ready to mix. This is where I get the vocals to set in the MIX.

When mixing I try to imagine a field in that field you have to separate instruments that compete with the vocal e.q spectrum. This is where the pan controls come in very handy. Imagine it as left, center right. Mixing usually takes me several attempts. I have seen it done in studios. Sugar Hill is one and they NEVER had the singer in a booth. It is about getting the Mic. to match the singers voice. Of coarse the room has to be dead (no natural room reverb)! After you get those two things accomplished and a good track the rest is in the mix! Good luck I hope this helps!

I discovered an interesting technique for expediting the recording process...

1) Play and sing on multi-channels, one track with the aid of a click.
2) Drop the Click, lay down guitar tracks with the aid of the track in step 1
3) Drop the track in Step 1 and lay down the vocals track with the aid of the tracks in step 2

Of course, the fastest way is to have your band do their respective tracks all at the same time....twice.

About 10 years ago, I bought what I thought was "everything" needed to have a great home studio. I had equipment on top of equipment. The one thing I let slip by was the building in which I would be recording within. Initially, the "Thin" sound of everything along with the constant battle with volume level mixes and the lack of ability to use a rich array of effects were a constant thing. I was so completely frustrated. I bought the best instrument mics I could afford such as the sennheiser E609, etc. It got better but still lacked that studio quality sound. I got online and spent about a week studying material on recording technics and properties and it was then that I realized my error. The error was in the building.
I started out by removing corners, leaving no 90 degree angles. I had already sound-proofed the room but in a basic and general way. I built angles along the walls and ceiling. I built a plexi booth for the drums and a small plexi cubical for the vocals. I learned ways to mic amps, also how to record vocals which I might add is a tricky business. First of all you need some sort of tube driven mic preamp, the next thing is learning the functions, what they do, etc., etc. of this preamp. Then you must understand that each person has a different voice with different vocal properties or attributes. In other words, some people having bigger mouths than others...LOL. Seriously, some have louder voices than others. This information is what you can use to choose the choice of Mic or Mic setting along with the Trim function. You also have a need of a compressor, and a noise gate. I personally get the vocal recording completed before using effects such as reverb, delay, etc. The vocals are tough to dial in, so to speak, to the mix but with time I finally was able to succeed. I tested my recording ability by performing a cover tune, think it was "Wish You Were Here" by Incubus. I allowed people to listen to the recording and they couldn`t tell the difference between the original and the real thing. I considered this a successful adventure.

In summary, recording is a skill that it simply takes time to achieve. Study all the info that you can about this skill. Experiment. Be patient and you will probably gain the ability. Be careful of what you practice and avoid bad habits or shortcuts. Good luck.
"Keep The Funk Alive!"

Yep, when you finally figure out all that goes into a great recording, the pro studios with highly trained engineers and lots of album credits start to look very reasonable.

About 10 years ago, I bought what I thought was "everything" needed to have a great home studio. I had equipment on top of equipment. The one thing I let slip by was the building in which I would be recording within. Initially, the "Thin" sound of everything along with the constant battle with volume level mixes and the lack of ability to use a rich array of effects were a constant thing. I was so completely frustrated. I bought the best instrument mics I could afford such as the sennheiser E609, etc. It got better but still lacked that studio quality sound. I got online and spent about a week studying material on recording technics and properties and it was then that I realized my error. The error was in the building.
I started out by removing corners, leaving no 90 degree angles. I had already sound-proofed the room but in a basic and general way. I built angles along the walls and ceiling. I built a plexi booth for the drums and a small plexi cubical for the vocals. I learned ways to mic amps, also how to record vocals which I might add is a tricky business. First of all you need some sort of tube driven mic preamp, the next thing is learning the functions, what they do, etc., etc. of this preamp. Then you must understand that each person has a different voice with different vocal properties or attributes. In other words, some people having bigger mouths than others...LOL. Seriously, some have louder voices than others. This information is what you can use to choose the choice of Mic or Mic setting along with the Trim function. You also have a need of a compressor, and a noise gate. I personally get the vocal recording completed before using effects such as reverb, delay, etc. The vocals are tough to dial in, so to speak, to the mix but with time I finally was able to succeed. I tested my recording ability by performing a cover tune, think it was "Wish You Were Here" by Incubus. I allowed people to listen to the recording and they couldn`t tell the difference between the original and the real thing. I considered this a successful adventure.

In summary, recording is a skill that it simply takes time to achieve. Study all the info that you can about this skill. Experiment. Be patient and you will probably gain the ability. Be careful of what you practice and avoid bad habits or shortcuts. Good luck.
"Keep The Funk Alive!"

Yep, when you finally figure out all that goes into a great recording, the pro studios with highly trained engineers and lots of album credits start to look very reasonable.

Exactly! I started down that trail but caught myself before I spent too much time and money. I have nothing but major respect for sound engineers, after I wrestled with trying to figure out the correct ways to balance levels, and program in various functions etc. I have no love or desire to tweak knobs, whatsoever...
When I bought my first four track (Fostex), I spent nine hours taking and re taking a track.... I actually lost sight of the song I was trying to record...
NEVER AGAIN!...LOL! I have since sworn off of ever playing with equipment ((aside from very basics) . Ido admit I like effects panels...But I couldn't tell you whats right or wrong in any of it.

Yep, when you finally figure out all that goes into a great recording, the pro studios with highly trained engineers and lots of album credits start to look very reasonable.

Amen!

I have a friend who is an incredible guitarist that started a studio in late 80s. He got so involved in building a decent studio that he ended up not being a guitarist anymore. That was an eye-opener for me.

We each have a gift that we are passionate about. If we lose sight of what we're called to do, we'll get distracted. If you want to be an engineer, that is a life-time pursuit to do it right. It's just better to hire that person than to become that person, if you want to be a musician.

There's nothing wrong with learning the basics for a home studio, but I would never consider a home recording "serious". I do pre-production at home ONLY for scratch tracks.... and then let someone whose life ambition is recording help me make a CD.

Yep, when you finally figure out all that goes into a great recording, the pro studios with highly trained engineers and lots of album credits start to look very reasonable.

Amen!

I have a friend who is an incredible guitarist that started a studio in late 80s. He got so involved in building a decent studio that he ended up not being a guitarist anymore. That was an eye-opener for me.

We each have a gift that we are passionate about. If we lose sight of what we're called to do, we'll get distracted. If you want to be an engineer, that is a life-time pursuit to do it right. It's just better to hire that person than to become that person, if you want to be a musician.

There's nothing wrong with learning the basics for a home studio, but I would never consider a home recording "serious". I do pre-production at home ONLY for scratch tracks.... and then let someone whose life ambition is recording help me make a CD.

I agree YOD, some folks on here have critiqued my recordings of my originals on here. I have a small home studio. The only thing I ever considered it for is to get the best recording I can for copyright of my work! I have never thought about recording an album from it!

Lots of good tips here! I think that if you have a problem of the vocals sitting 'on top' of the instrument mix, you need to look at the mix process itself, not just the tracking process. If you are mixing all the instruments, then adding the vocal tracks its going to sound that way every time. Instead, you need to mix all the tracks at once, sculpting EQ in the instruments to give 'room' for the vocals whenever needed.
Recording vocals in an isolation chamber can sound good or bad, depending on what you do for processing. I tried the 'isolation method' using heavy comforters, hard foam panels, etc, and the vocals sounded dead. Now I move the mic into my living room which is about 14' x 18', with lots of odd angles, furniture and carpet, but also sheetrock, etc, and have the mic near one side, with me facing into (at an angle) the long dimension of the room.
Another way to get all the tracks to sound 'as one' is adding a quality reverb (minimally!) to all the tracks - this can make them sound they were recorded at one time in the same room.