General Music Chat

We are a product of natural selection, evolution through intelligent memetics.
Did you think some old, white bearded, dude in a gown put us here 6000 years ago or something?

It should be pointed out that many (if not most people) have a misconception about Darwin's actual theory. First, there is NO SUCH THING as NATURAL SELECTION. That term was coined to appease minds who did not understand true natural phenomenon of genetics and evolution... Laymen's terms if you will, Darwin knew this as he wrote about subjects surrounding "bio-diversity"

Having said that, Here's how Darwin's survival theories work...

1) A gene mutates. The mutation, in consort with its organic host's other attributes will either benefit the organism by giving leverage to that organism , allowing it to thrive in the immediate environment long enough to generate significant volume of offspring and pass the mutated gene on to subsequent generations... or it will lend nothing to the organism Either way the The organism eventually perishes, with or without a legacy

2) It is estimated that 'evolution' of a species, where change becomes self-evident takes @ 2000 years to establish a pro-generational line of Speciation. That means that for a specie's evolutionary attribute to take hold (i.e a third eye, or what have you) it must survive and thrive for that period of time. This is necessary, because evolution itself does not rest solely with gene mutation, but also must stand the test of various environmental anomalies, in consort with other genes at play. For example, immunity against Malaria in African communities of the Malaria belt... come with the price of Sickle-Cell anemia... That is, sickle-cell anemia is a mutation that circumvents the deadly effects of Malaria, allowing an otherwise doomed host to survive the belt an pro-generate, pass the mutation on, until a large community prevails and access to other genetic variation is diminished.


THIS is NOT NATURAL SELECTION. If Anything it is Natural ATTRITION. The distinction is important... because the odds of you getting a mutated gene that kills you (i.e cancer) are a lot higher than getting a gene that makes you a superhuman. Darwin's creatures simply "were NOT selected for extinction, rather than "selected" for survival... Even so, since Darwin's writings, we still witness extinctions every day.

After .25 million years, the species of man, has prevailed and come closer to 'super" than any other species... and yet, still falls short. After .25million years, it occurs to me that what separates us from every other species...is that little thing we call "rationale". Funny thing, however... There are NO GENE(S) to attribute that towards... There are structural chromosomes, which separate and define species form...and to some degree, function...but NOTHING to explain the leverage of Rationale....(We notice that a ratio of brain size in proportion to body mass differs than that of lower species. nevertheless, There are NO SPECIFIC GENES to script our intelligence....Just Wiring and structure....

When you look at this kind of leverage called Rationale, it encompasses all the randomness and order you can eat, to elevate your state of leverage over pretty much any enviornment in and outside of this planet.

You might say...what author of existence could dream this up? I might respond and say.. " Tell me how this is any accident, and how important evolution's role becomes at this stage? Alas the debate of Intelligent design over evolution begins...

JCP1: what is even more interesting, a great majority of musicians describe themselves as atheist or at worst agnostics...

Even worse than that is someone who pretends to know what agnosticism is.

"or at worst agnostics." Listen dude there is nothing wrong with taking your head out of your ass and seeing things for what they are! Blind faith is your worse enemy, dogma is your ball & chain, delusion your prison.

no worse than a person who says there is no knowledge and therefore he knows everything.

enlighten me,
how are things?
really.
not really interested in jive,
now that you have your head out of your particular ass
why don't you tell me, in the conflagration of cold and radiation of the universe,
how you came to be here.

We are a product of natural selection, evolution through intelligent memetics.
Did you think some old, white bearded, dude in a gown put us here 6000 years ago or something?

come now,
a self proclaimed mystic ought be able to do better than
"I was selected by an inert object" (somewhat a contradiction in terms)
selected by what? by who?

or perhaps you meant to say that you are a fluke, a completely random accident, and lucifer is less significant than warm sun beam.

not too much magic truth in that scenario, I must say.

Oh I get it, Atheism! I was selected, that means I'm important, but no one selected me, so I'm the most important...very nice
quite an ego booster I must say.
I think I kinda like that
ME is all, very good.
Much better than that agnostic junk,
Oh God (if there is one) save my soul (if I have one)
that's very grey...
no good at all.
care to dig a little deeper or is that all lucifer has got up his pajamas?

I guess an understanding of memetics would help in your case?

Given that what you say is accurate,
and I really don't have any reason to say it is not.
The argument for intelligent design would be this:

The leverage of Rationale is designed in, to offset the propensity to Natural ATTRITION.
which the scientific community calls entropy, The law that says all energy states move irrevocably form the higher to the lower, or from order to disorder.
No known formula can be described that will predict that a junk yard, with it's own initiative will produce an operating machine form the parts that are deposited in it.
with this one exception "life"
Life is the only thing in the known world that moves opposite to the laws of physics.
Unless you provide an source of motivation outside the laws of physics, to operate on it.

We are a product of natural selection, evolution through intelligent memetics.
Did you think some old, white bearded, dude in a gown put us here 6000 years ago or something?

It should be pointed out that many (if not most people) have a misconception about Darwin's actual theory. First, there is NO SUCH THING as NATURAL SELECTION. That term was coined to appease minds who did not understand true natural phenomenon of genetics and evolution... Laymen's terms if you will, Darwin knew this as he wrote about subjects surrounding "bio-diversity"

Having said that, Here's how Darwin's survival theories work...

1) A gene mutates. The mutation, in consort with its organic host's other attributes will either benefit the organism by giving leverage to that organism , allowing it to thrive in the immediate environment long enough to generate significant volume of offspring and pass the mutated gene on to subsequent generations... or it will lend nothing to the organism Either way the The organism eventually perishes, with or without a legacy

2) It is estimated that 'evolution' of a species, where change becomes self-evident takes @ 2000 years to establish a pro-generational line of Speciation. That means that for a specie's evolutionary attribute to take hold (i.e a third eye, or what have you) it must survive and thrive for that period of time. This is necessary, because evolution itself does not rest solely with gene mutation, but also must stand the test of various environmental anomalies, in consort with other genes at play. For example, immunity against Malaria in African communities of the Malaria belt... come with the price of Sickle-Cell anemia... That is, sickle-cell anemia is a mutation that circumvents the deadly effects of Malaria, allowing an otherwise doomed host to survive the belt an pro-generate, pass the mutation on, until a large community prevails and access to other genetic variation is diminished.


THIS is NOT NATURAL SELECTION. If Anything it is Natural ATTRITION. The distinction is important... because the odds of you getting a mutated gene that kills you (i.e cancer) are a lot higher than getting a gene that makes you a superhuman. Darwin's creatures simply "were NOT selected for extinction, rather than "selected" for survival... Even so, since Darwin's writings, we still witness extinctions every day.

After .25 million years, the species of man, has prevailed and come closer to 'super" than any other species... and yet, still falls short. After .25million years, it occurs to me that what separates us from every other species...is that little thing we call "rationale". Funny thing, however... There are NO GENE(S) to attribute that towards... There are structural chromosomes, which separate and define species form...and to some degree, function...but NOTHING to explain the leverage of Rationale....(We notice that a ratio of brain size in proportion to body mass differs than that of lower species. nevertheless, There are NO SPECIFIC GENES to script our intelligence....Just Wiring and structure....

When you look at this kind of leverage called Rationale, it encompasses all the randomness and order you can eat, to elevate your state of leverage over pretty much any enviornment in and outside of this planet.

You might say...what author of existence could dream this up? I might respond and say.. " Tell me how this is any accident, and how important evolution's role becomes at this stage? Alas the debate of Intelligent design over evolution begins...

Are we going to argue our cases here? Because I am not a scientist (are you?) and I would not be the best proponent for natural selection, evolution and intelligent memetics.

That said, natural selection certainly IS a theory that is STILL a feasible, and rational explanation, especially when combined with intelligent memetics and evolution in the modern sense (Darwin has been revised in case you haven't heard).

Can you give me any rational explanation for why we are here? Have you read Dawkins by chance? He has very good and rational theories that step up Darwinism.

If you want to debate this that is fine, let me just brush up on everything and will gladly discuss this with you. There is no God, there is no Shaker & Mover.

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

Given that what you say is accurate,
and I really don't have any reason to say it is not.
The argument for intelligent design would be this:

The leverage of Rationale is designed in, to offset the propensity to Natural ATTRITION.
which the scientific community calls entropy, The law that says all energy states move irrevocably form the higher to the lower, or from order to disorder.
No known formula can be described that will predict that a junk yard, with it's own initiative will produce an operating machine form the parts that are deposited in it.
with this one exception "life"
Life is the only thing in the known world that moves opposite to the laws of physics.
Unless you provide an source of motivation outside the laws of physics, to operate on it.

Quantum Mechanics is a lovely theory and explanation as to how Intelligent Memetics works.

Our cell structures are replenished in very short times, the kind of person we allow ourselves to become will perpetuate the next generation of cell structures, in other words healthiness begets healthier genetic structures and moves in a positive direction.

This in essence is what intelligent memetics and evolution/natural selection is doing . . . naturally finding the better course towards survival of the organism.

Of course we can screw that up and often do with terrible habits and life choices.

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

That's even a more rational explanation than we are a product of a creator.

PaperDog said: 2) It is estimated that 'evolution' of a species, where change becomes self-evident takes @ 2000 years to establish a pro-generational line of Speciation. That means that for a specie's evolutionary attribute to take hold (i.e a third eye, or what have you) it must survive and thrive for that period of time. This is necessary, because evolution itself does not rest solely with gene mutation, but also must stand the test of various environmental anomalies, in consort with other genes at play. For example, immunity against Malaria in African communities of the Malaria belt... come with the price of Sickle-Cell anemia... That is, sickle-cell anemia is a mutation that circumvents the deadly effects of Malaria, allowing an otherwise doomed host to survive the belt an pro-generate, pass the mutation on, until a large community prevails and access to other genetic variation is diminished.

Here you are placing the importance on Humankind, yet you clearly are showing the power of natural selection and the survival of anemia based memes . . . which in your case has actually triumphed over man.

As a herd so to speak, these anemia memes discard what doesn't help them survive, and gang up on what does help them survive.

This is in essence how everything works.

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

That's even a more rational explanation than we are a product of a creator.

that's an extension not an explanation.

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

That's even a more rational explanation than we are a product of a creator.

that's an extension not an explanation.

How so? It would explain how WE became here on earth?

Besides, isn't this a thread on Sacred Music?

Given that what you say is accurate,
and I really don't have any reason to say it is not.
The argument for intelligent design would be this:

The leverage of Rationale is designed in, to offset the propensity to Natural ATTRITION.
which the scientific community calls entropy, The law that says all energy states move irrevocably form the higher to the lower, or from order to disorder.
No known formula can be described that will predict that a junk yard, with it's own initiative will produce an operating machine form the parts that are deposited in it.
with this one exception "life"
Life is the only thing in the known world that moves opposite to the laws of physics.
Unless you provide an source of motivation outside the laws of physics, to operate on it.

Quantum Mechanics is a lovely theory and explanation as to how Intelligent Memetics works.

Our cell structures are replenished in very short times, the kind of person we allow ourselves to become will perpetuate the next generation of cell structures, in other words healthiness begets healthier genetic structures and moves in a positive direction.

This in essence is what intelligent memetics and evolution/natural selection is doing . . . naturally finding the better course towards survival of the organism.

Of course we can screw that up and often do with terrible habits and life choices.

that maybe a description of ongoing operation, but not a description of origin.

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

That's even a more rational explanation than we are a product of a creator.

that's an extension not an explanation.

How so? It would explain how WE became here on earth?

Besides, isn't this a thread on Sacred Music?

it's no more a explanation of origin than saying your parents drove in from Delaware so you could be born in jersey.

this was a thread on sacred music but now it is not.
it can be again, I suppose, if the subject bothers you.

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

That's even a more rational explanation than we are a product of a creator.

that's an extension not an explanation.

How so? It would explain how WE became here on earth?

Besides, isn't this a thread on Sacred Music?

it's no more a explanation of origin than saying your parents drove in from Delaware so you could be born in jersey.

this was a thread on sacred music but now it is not.
it can be again, I suppose, if the subject bothers you.

Ok, you are right, on both cases. My agnostic self is coming out and I will have to agree that neither you, nor I, nor anyone as of yet, has the answer for origin of species.

I guess we can lay this to rest?

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

That's even a more rational explanation than we are a product of a creator.

that's an extension not an explanation.

How so? It would explain how WE became here on earth?

Besides, isn't this a thread on Sacred Music?

it's no more a explanation of origin than saying your parents drove in from Delaware so you could be born in jersey.

this was a thread on sacred music but now it is not.
it can be again, I suppose, if the subject bothers you.

Ok, you are right, on both cases. My agnostic self is coming out and I will have to agree that neither you, nor I, nor anyone as of yet, has the answer for origin of species.

I guess we can lay this to rest?

we are going to have to
that is, unless, you would care to hear a sermon.

Were descended from Aliens who visited
years earlier.

That's even a more rational explanation than we are a product of a creator.

that's an extension not an explanation.

How so? It would explain how WE became here on earth?

Besides, isn't this a thread on Sacred Music?

it's no more a explanation of origin than saying your parents drove in from Delaware so you could be born in jersey.

this was a thread on sacred music but now it is not.
it can be again, I suppose, if the subject bothers you.

Ok, you are right, on both cases. My agnostic self is coming out and I will have to agree that neither you, nor I, nor anyone as of yet, has the answer for origin of species.

I guess we can lay this to rest?

we are going to have to
that is, unless, you would care to hear a sermon.

Please, not that!