General Music Chat

A 4 piece band gets hired... They are asking $600.00 for the night.

Suppose the avg Specials well drinks in a bar sold @ 2.00 per glass, and call drinks @ 4.25 per shot.

And lets say, that the house capacity is full (@ 225 people , IAW code) ... Because many of us are so damn cheap, we'll say that 80 % drink the Well drinks, and 20% drink the Call drinks. (Not calculating for double shots)

Code: Select all225 * .80 = 180 Well
225 * .20 =  45 Call


If everybody only drank one drink all night long, the base units sold would be:

Code: Select all(180 * 2.00 = $360.00)  +  (45 * 4.25 = $191.25)  =  $551.25

Now, Lets say that most reasonable folks, who go to the bars average @ 4 drinks (min) in two hours.

Code: Select all($360.00 * 4 =$1,440.00 )  + (191.25 * 4 = $765.00 ) = $2,205.00  from 7pm- 9pm

.

AFter peaks, the sales start to diminish to two drinks per 2 hours (avg):

Code: Select all$2,205.00 / 2 = $1,102.00

So in 4 hours, the bar has earned $2,205.00 + $1,102.0 = $3,307.00 from 7pm to 11pm

Now add in the 1102 again for the next two hours ...

So, in 6 hours, the bar has earned $2,205.00 + $1,102.0 + $1,102.0 = $4,409.00 from 7pm to 1:00am

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Now lets pay the 4 waitresses and two bartenders , the two bouncers and the doorman ...an the band that busted their asses all night for the animal kingdom...

Code: Select all@ 7.25/hr  (I'm guessing here)  * 6 * 4 =  -  $174.00 Waitresses
@ 7.25/hr  (I'm guessing here)  * 6 * 2 =  -  $130.00 Doorman & Bouncers
@10.00/hr (again, guessing here) * 6 * 2 =  $120.00 Bartenders
@25.00/Hr (based on 600.00) * 6 * 4 = $600.00 Band


So far, the bar still walks away with over 3K
What I am cluelesss about here is the COD for Beer deliverys etc... Feel free to jump in here...

'Just numbers', I know, but you are not going to get 225 people drinking 6 drinks (or staying for 4 hours) - if the patron turnover keeps that many people in the place for that long, they got a good thing going. Most places have a 'hot time' of about 2 hours. It might be 11 until closing, or 9-11, etc.
Even if they are making way more money on the booze, it probably is not adding up to as much as you calculate.
expenses not considered:
taxes - income tax on profits, real estate tax on the building. SS, insurance and any other employee-related expenses, including the mandatory annual employee booze-serving training required in most states now. Insurance on the building. Booze and entertainment licenses (usually annual fees). Music royalty fee - not all clubs are paying these yet, but the big guys BMI/ASCAP, etc are cracking down.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending clubs that want bands to play for nothing or almost nothing.

You didn't figure on any cover charge getting in - that's more usually the band's money, rather than what the bar makes on booze.

'Just numbers', I know, but you are not going to get 225 people drinking 6 drinks (or staying for 4 hours) - if the patron turnover keeps that many people in the place for that long, they got a good thing going. Most places have a 'hot time' of about 2 hours. It might be 11 until closing, or 9-11, etc.
Even if they are making way more money on the booze, it probably is not adding up to as much as you calculate.
expenses not considered:
taxes - income tax on profits, real estate tax on the building. SS, insurance and any other employee-related expenses, including the mandatory annual employee booze-serving training required in most states now. Insurance on the building. Booze and entertainment licenses (usually annual fees). Music royalty fee - not all clubs are paying these yet, but the big guys BMI/ASCAP, etc are cracking down.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending clubs that want bands to play for nothing or almost nothing.

You didn't figure on any cover charge getting in - that's more usually the band's money, rather than what the bar makes on booze.

Very good points... I was using canned scenarios... I totally forgot about the cover...

I imagine the band's asking price will evolve to royalty fees included (much easier for all) SO even after taxes (and remember this is just one night out of 7) ...I'm thinking that even on slow biz nights, the club can still afford a band once or twice a week... If they played it right, the band would help the club build a rep...which means more rev...etc.

I have a friend that owns a very small but popular bar 175 people MAX. He told me he is doing gross sales of 50K a week!

I have a friend that owns a very small but popular bar 175 people MAX. He told me he is doing gross sales of 50K a week!

Wow, that's an avg of 7K per night (7days a week) ...So My numbers were slight Over HALF OFF! lol!

Im pretty good friends with the folks that own our local bar that my band plays a lot, they average $2200 a day is what hes told me.

I personally think a bands pay should be based on the draw they bring, but thats just me.

These folks used to pay every band the same thing, $400 per night. We always brought a pretty good crowd, but when I went in there on off weekends, a band might be there at midnight with less than 20 people there, I didnt like that.

They pay all bands $150 just to show up, then give them the door minus $40 for the doorman. As I said in another post we made $580 this past weekend, so we had 94 people come in and pay the cover charge, these is one other band that does well there, but they havent made anymore than us. Of course the people that work there have said there are bands that still dont get anymore than the $150. I like this arrangement. Weve made up to $800 in a night there and its not that big of a place.

We can discuss this til we are blue in the face, cause I know we already have, but to me, grow a crowd and work the door, thats the best way to make extra money in a bar situation, you aint gonna get no big pay from a bar, it is what it is.

thanks Jw what you say makes sense . In other words Be a good rockin Band, and expect yer crowd to carry you... (If they like you)

Dawg, I think JW is closer to being on the money.
I would hate to talk about those slow nights that you have to stay open and hope you break even. That includes nights that take loyal patrons away to lets say watch a fireworks show. You still have to pay the help, even if you are the main bartender.
Then you have another biggie, Insurance, the majority being liability. and another biggie after that is rent or taxes paid out on the property.
Licensing can get to be ridiculous too. After complying with all the local codes to run a gas station, with a repair shop, with a small snack shop,,,, With compliance to everyone in government enforcement.... HE HAD $40,000 worth of permits.
No wonder why he just said F it and bailed.
Dawg, I know you have some great thinking abilities and this might raise the awareness of some people. There is always the other side that people don't see. (LIKE MY BUDDY FROM LAST NIGHT, THAT DIDN'T WANT ANY 40 YEAR OLD WEIRDOS.)

Any way just something to think about.

Folks the bar biz is the same as any other. It is a law of averages and risk! I have dealt with these club owners for more years than I would like to admit. Booking a gig with them folks is the same as dealing with a pawn shop. They will talk negatives EVERYTIME! I really don't blame them because they are the ones taking the risk (from their perspective)! They don't want to take a risk with a band that hasn't worked for them before or one that has no track record. The problem I have with some of them is when you DO go in and do a good job they still want to keep you down! IMO once you have proven you are a good band and can keep their crowd plus bring your own folks well lets just say that intimidates them. At that point I say SHOW ME THE MONEY! Usually they understand where the money comes from. As JW has said many times you can ease their worries by just taking their minimum and taking the door!

My problem in my area is that most clubs pay somewhere between 200-400 a night, Ive tryed to do things that up that amount for my guys, weve been in and out of it for close to 25 years now, we have learned not to give free gigs unless its some sort of benefit and we all agree.

I know this has been discussed to death, but there are far to many new groups that havent played a gig and will play for next to nothing, I learned a long time ago to just say to club owners, well you get what you pay for, when you want a good group that does have some sort of following call me, we did try to break into a couple of new markets in my area and we didnt draw that well, of course we arent trying to make a living, just get paid a decent amount for what we do.

But the bar game is competition, period, its not about art, its not about how good you think you are, as Haley said from a bar owners side, if they expect you to bring in people, then you have to show them the money, and then its uphill to get extra.

As I said the bar we played a lot, I did complain about how they paid bands that didnt bring a soul in the same amount as us, we are willing to take the risk that we can produce people, to me if you cant produce a crowd then you just need to be a lounge act anyway, or just promote your own shows, Ive shared before where a couple of years ago, I got a car dealership, and a motorcycle shop to sponser us so we were getting extra bucks over what the bars paid us, that meant having a banner with thier name on it at every gig, mentioning them a lot during the night and handing out business cards for them. Making money in music is hard work, even harder than a normal job, and if you arent willing to work it for all its worth, if money is your goal, you arent going to ever be happy.

There are many ways to make money in music, you just need to realize its not the bars responsibilty all the time to pay you just to show up, show them the money, think outside the box for other ways to make money and you can succeed, but if you think just because you know 40 songs, have a pa, that you deserve some sort of top dollar, then as the old Judas Priest song says, "You got another thing comin!"

There are many ways to make money in music, you just need to realize its not the bars responsibilty all the time to pay you just to show up, show them the money, think outside the box for other ways to make money and you can succeed, but if you think just because you know 40 songs, have a pa, that you deserve some sort of top dollar, then as the old Judas Priest song says, "You got another thing comin!"

Its all true...Until a guy like Jeff Beck walks in...

I have a friend that owns a very small but popular bar 175 people MAX. He told me he is doing gross sales of 50K a week!

Hmmm, let's break that number down a bit. Nightly capacity of 175 X 7 days =1225 max capacity per week. If they fill that place every night and everyone spends $41 on average it could happen... or they offer lap dances. A bar selling drinks and cheeseburgers making that kind of scratch is possible but extremely rare.

We have a few really hopping bars around here of similar size and they do $50-100K per month. They also pay $20K/m in rent, have maybe 30 employees @ $20K, food and drink costs of $10K, and the California employer sucker fees of $10K/mo, light bill $5K/mo, ASCAP fees, license fees, etc. While they do fill the place every Fri-Sat night, they are pretty quiet with 30-40 people Sun-Thurs. These guys can make decent money if they watch their margins but they can also lose their shirts quickly. No wonder they drive a hard bargain with bands.