General Music Chat

whats a curly bulb?

Really? Those spiral bulbs that this regime wants us all to purchase. You know, the ones that require you to call the EPA to get cleaned up if you break one. The ones that make you feel like a bat when you try to read something in the light that they give off.

oh...

i knew that

I'll point out that there is no such thing as bad publicity.
This new "holier than thou" mindset of businesses loses my business.
People are people, and the first amendment is to be honored.

Guys, there's an important point that seems to have been missed there. It always amazes me that musicians are so reluctant to "play the game". The original post had to do with marketing, not necessarily compromising your beliefs.
Hey, I'm 100% behind any artist that sticks to their guns...except I'm not handing you money when you are starving, knowing that you've blown oppurtunities because of ego. And please, don't get on that first amendment kick again-too often the people that use that argument are the same ones that can't figure out why no one wants to play music with them or hire them. That is not a shot at anybody, it's just to point out that while you have the constitutional right to say anything you want, a prospective employer has the same right to turn you down-and they don't have to justify it.
"No, this guy isn't right for the job". That's what he's saying.
"This guy is a loud mouthed tool, and probably going to be a problem." That is what he's thinking.

I believe music is always 50/50. On stage, it's 50% sonic and 50% visual. On the business end, it's 50% art and 50% marketing...

Any such thing as bad publicity? You bet. Destroy your reputation on the business end and they'll stop answering your calls.

AirViking, I usually agree with you on most things, but I think you missed themark this time. Businesses can afford that "holier than thou" attitude because you need them more than they need you.

Crazy...I started out on the other end of this, but after a few people posted responses, I realized how valid the statement really was.

Think about it: Is the common attitude "They'll love me for who I am, or screw 'em?" Oh, but I'm still gonna expect them to invest in me." ??

It's 50/50 folks...the fine line is keeping your integrity AND succeeding. NO ONE succeeds without compromising to some extent.

Let me better define my point.

I can usually convey my message in such a way that it is inoffensive and informative (something I usually dont do on the internet.)

While I can have ideas that aren't the majority popular (ie end the fed) I usually have done enough research to make my point without having to input my own "experience". This usually goes well with people.

So let me redefine my point.
Bad publicity? Nay. Getting your name out to a wide amount of people does not do damage to sales, only your reputation. (See Lindsey Lohan, Brittney Spears, and Kim Kardashian.)
Not knowing how to market to a demographic that you appeal to can be a bullet to the foot. This all of course is the 90's mindset.

Also, I fought for my right to say whatever I want whenever I want. Plus it wouldn't hurt to end up in tabloids for some small, untimely remarks.
Getting your name out to millions of people cannot hurt you, IF (and I mean if) you learn how to was adapting marketing skills.

If anything, marketers today are lazy and would much rather have the same drab dribble fall out of their mouths than say something new.

I can't really argue with that...and it's true, however unfortunate, that "scandalous behavior" can be very beneficial. The very names you mentioned are perfect examples of the point. Keep in mind, though, that for every success story that was based on that bad publicity, there are just as many stories that go the other way...Dixie Chicks, Howard Dean, etc. It's kind of a russian roulette theory of business.
For the record, your statement is completely true, but I personally will never figure out how Britney, Kim and Lindsey (and Paris) have managed to do it. Most of the people I know can't stand to hear those names mentioned...who's buying into this crap?

Also, my first amendment rants tend to ruffle some feathers, and I apologize if I've done so. There seems to be a translation to the freedom of speech that everyone misses. You CAN say whatever you want.

However, it doesn't make you right, people don't have to agree with you, and you are still responsible for the consequences. If people hate you for what you say, it's not their problem, it's yours. If people don't hire you because they've found some inflammatory statement you've made on the internet, that's your problem, not theirs. No one is obligated to support you in any way. Most people miss those points.
I'm not directing any of this at you, personally, BTW.

Besides, I think you would have to agree that there is a certain DEGREE of that kind of publicity that you can withstand as an artist. "Publicity" covers a wide range of things-anything from untimely remarks to arrests and worse. I'm certainly not making light of this, but try it. (Please don't). Start making negative comments about rape or child molestation and see how many people line up to buy your music. You have the right to say anything you want right? And there's no such thing as bad publicity, right?

I'm beating this to death now, but the original post was about how you handle yourself in the public eye.

Let me sum it up this way: There is a local singer who has tried for twenty years to get noticed by the "industry". He has finally quit music-because he has nowhere to play...Every time he's played a gig, he's got liquored up and verbally abused the audience. Nobody wants him back. But guess what, he got to say whatever he wanted, right? He burned bridges everywhere he went and now he's got nowhere left to go. Doesn't sound like much of a success story to me.

You guys all have valid points...But at the end of the day, a competent promoter, listens to your 'goods"...and then He/She will decide whether it delivers, has revenue potential or not... If it doesn't, all the courtesy and decorum on a blog isn't gonna help that.

Likewise, If you got the goods, and he/she believes its hotter than hot cakes... money making prevails.... and short of a deliberate press conference to expose the industries shortcomings...that promoter wont give a rats ass what you post... Ya;ll goin to da bank.

imho

Code: Select allLet me sum it up this way: There is a local singer who has tried for twenty years to get noticed by the "industry". He has finally quit music-because he has nowhere to play...Every time he's played a gig, he's got liquored up and verbally abused the audience. Nobody wants him back. But guess what, he got to say whatever he wanted, right? He burned bridges everywhere he went and now he's got nowhere left to go. Doesn't sound like much of a success story to me.

This illustrates my point: This local individual, whom you speak of... parallels Amy Winehouse, (who, professionally, and by all accounts was an ass to the audience) But...she had the chops, and the work to back it up. Needless to say, audiences recognized and got past the caustic dimension of her act, cause they paid for and could rely her music ...and that is ultimately what she delivered. Her promoter had grief to be sure,,,but managed to get past it as well.

Great point PD, and one that works both ways. I've probably taken this thread to heart a bit out of frustration...

There are many knds of musicians, but for sake of argument, I put them in one of three classes:

The fun musician-These guys are the people that love music, love the atmosphere and the experience. If that experience is less than enjoyable, however, they will move on or worse, hold up progress in order to maintain the status quo-the "fun" experience. These are the folks that show up with a 12-pack and kill your rehearsal time talkng about anything OTHER than the job at hand. They are sometimes good musicians, but rarely work to get beyond the point they are at-I've even had guys that refused to learn new material-that would be like work.

The passionate musician-These folks are more dedicated, and understand that there is work involved in order to get anywhere. They take music seriously, and strive to make a statement. Yes, I do lump myself into this classification, and I am biased...

Then, there is the "artists". You described this group perfectly with the Amy Winehouse analogy. Difficult to work with, unappreciative of what they have, and yet, when it's time to bring it, they BRING IT.

The guy I referenced belonged in the first group, but thought he was in the third.

So, to me, the biggest question that any one individual HAS to ask him or her self is this: "Do I have the goods to back up/ overcome my actions?"
That's what bothers me the most about the subject...everyone seems to assume that the answer is always yes. There's a certain intangible that puts people on that level. I don't know what it is, and I don't have it. I'm amazed at how many people assume that they do have it.

If anyone on this site is looking to make contacts, hook up, form bands, get a job, or do business with other musicians. They might want to think about how others will interpret what they post.
I'm the type that researches people I do business with, the net is a closet full of information.
Me I'm here to network, share info, and actually have used this site to gather information on persons that I am working with now.

If you plan on only working with a small certain group of people, by all means flame away, discuss politics, religion, sexual preferences here it's a forum to commit professional suicide.

Sorry man, but you sound as someone that has had to live their life in fear.
What is so sad is that is becoming the norm in America. Don't say or think or act out on anything that may jeopardize the future. Funny ,thats the one thing I can agree with occupy wall streeters. At least they stood up for ,,,whatever
To maintain your freedom,,, You always have to reach down low and make sure you still have the balls to not give a damn about what some one else says. I know that will be misinterpreted,,,,, I don't care.

I really couldn't care less if they like Obama or not. It has no relevance, musically. AND, if I was going for a gig, and the venue owner looked me up and didn't agree with my political stance-leading that person to cancel our agreement, I'm probably better off in the long run, if that is the kind of unprofessionalism IMBT keng?t would be dealing with.

I've actually been one in the past that has pushed for "music only" topics. That being said, people are people, and they are going to express how they feel about a variety of topics. I think the idea that you damage your career oppurtunities by doing so is kind of silly. I'll agree that the personal flaming and the political rants go too far, but, in the end, i'd be more concerned about a potential employer who doesn't want me to have individual thoughts. That's kinda scary, in a way. http://www.mbtkengathinnatsuomi.com

This is all too funny, no it's not.

Lawrence Welk wrote a couple books some detailing how tough competition was to play in his band. Then there's Bob Dylan so disliked he couldn't even get a sandwich in his early days. Years ago you might have been unique, today everyone's an artist. Many here are seeking members for their band, at least that's what it says in their profile. Good luck with that, my phones ringing and sometimes I answer it lol. The three things I mentioned in the OP swing many directions. I enjoy reading the fiery back and forth, a lot of people don't know this forum exists. Ted Nugent might want to have a look. lol

I'm shallow... I simply read it as you become less attractive to possible prospect if you act like a dikhead for all the world to see. Regardless of your talent. Most folks don't like working with difficult blokes. But I commend those who at least aren't closet dikheads! Fly your flags proudly!

LOL

If you can control a crowd with what you say/sing/play, you can write your own ticket.

If you are well behaved and still lacking, you're probably going on back where you came from.

Everyone gets annoyed, the point is to maintain whatever composure you have.

Some people almost completely self-destruct before a show and then deliver a great performance. And if you do, as long as you deliver, that's what gets remembered unless you burn the place down etc.

No one ever says, "he/she/they were so well behaved that we'll have to invite them back to play again".

No, they say, "those people delivered x amount of dollars into our till and we made so much, we should have them back asap".
(Oh and the band was ok as well) lol

Lots of things to consider when you want to make money.

I ain't met Old Ted and have met people that fill stadiums they don't get into politics as a rule. Rarely do you meet successful musicians that aren't "Always On" when in the public eye.

Playing covers in bars is not fun for me, but a few of the folks on here do it professionally. The money some of these places pay is so bad that you have a hard time getting a truthful answer.

Used to read about how some bands were living (existing) on Food Stamps before they got signed.

Still meet musicians that want to make a DEMO lol

That train left a long time ago, show business looks seedier when your backstage, but on the stage ......... it's same old dancing chicken Tom Parker was selling.