General Music Chat

Hey Bob.
I'll bet when you saw the title of this post, you started to go ballistic!

Not exactly ballistic but I've heard the same crap from bands/musicians in this town. One guy had started a blues/rock jam on a Wednesday evening at a bar that previously had no live bands. A "friend" of his owned the bar, so he started the jam for free. Two years later they were pretty much packing the place every week. Then this guy lost his day gig and called me up looking for a paid gig. I said "wait a minute aren't you getting paid for your blues jam you're hosting?" He said he "can't ask to be paid because he does it as a favor for his friend." I told him I don't want to play with somebody who in effect is stabbing himself and MYSELF in the foot by playing for free.

So a guy loses his job and you basically say F off because he had the nerve to run a open mic for free ?
Like he was stealing money from you because he played for free ?
Damn that is twisted.
Make sure you add that to your list of rules !

. No, I didn't say F off because he had the nerve to run an open mic for free and he wasn't stealing money from me because he played for free. I said F off because he was RIPPING HIMSELF off by not demanding his FAIR SHARE of the money he was earning for the bar. He wasn't "stealing" money from me, he was making it harder for me and others like me who DESERVE a fair wage for all the HARD work we do. The irony is when he lost his paid day gig he realized that he SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID all along for his successful jam session.
I know another muscian who started a jam session for free and built it up, and then when he asked for a SMALL amount of pay the bar owner GOT SOMEBODY else to do it for free. Idiots are lined up, desperate to play and willing to do it for nothing. Owners/managers know it and take advantage, it's a shame.

No, I didn't say F off because he had the nerve to run an open mic for free and he wasn't stealing money from me because he played for free. I said F off because he was RIPPING HIMSELF off by not demanding his FAIR SHARE of the money he was earning for the bar. He wasn't "stealing" money from me, he was making it harder for me and others like me who DESERVE a fair wage for all the HARD work we do. The irony is when he lost his paid day gig he realized that he SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID all along for his successful jam session.
I know another muscian who started a jam session for free and built it up, and then when he asked for a SMALL amount of pay the bar owner GOT SOMEBODY else to do it for free. Idiots are lined up, desperate to play and willing to do it for nothing. Owners/managers know it and take advantage, it's a shame.

Bob... At the end of the day, that guy was probably only good enough to make a few patrons thirsty... , where as I'm sure you and your band could have raised the roof off the house. As you know, You probably demand (and deserve) a premium... and the club-owner always seeks to cut the corners...So you know its no surprise if that club-owner hires the little guy for free... Its not that guy's fault per se, its the club owner and the patrons fault, who refuse to pay or support a cover charge. My guess is the bigger clubs would never cheapen themselves by hiring amatuers...They would stick with and pay for the big leagues...Am I right? Therefore, It should NEVER be a contest between you and an open mic participant... If it is...you gotta switch clubs...right?

No, I didn't say F off because he had the nerve to run an open mic for free and he wasn't stealing money from me because he played for free. I said F off because he was RIPPING HIMSELF off by not demanding his FAIR SHARE of the money he was earning for the bar. He wasn't "stealing" money from me, he was making it harder for me and others like me who DESERVE a fair wage for all the HARD work we do. The irony is when he lost his paid day gig he realized that he SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID all along for his successful jam session.
I know another muscian who started a jam session for free and built it up, and then when he asked for a SMALL amount of pay the bar owner GOT SOMEBODY else to do it for free. Idiots are lined up, desperate to play and willing to do it for nothing. Owners/managers know it and take advantage, it's a shame.

Bob... At the end of the day, that guy was probably only good enough to make a few patrons thirsty... , where as I'm sure you and your band could have raised the roof off the house. As you know, You probably demand (and deserve) a premium... and the club-owner always seeks to cut the corners...So you know its no surprise if that club-owner hires the little guy for free... Its not that guy's fault per se, its the club owner and the patrons fault, who refuse to pay or support a cover charge. My guess is the bigger clubs would never cheapen themselves by hiring amatuers...They would stick with and pay for the big leagues...Am I right? Therefore, It should NEVER be a contest between you and an open mic participant... If it is...you gotta switch clubs...right?

. Sad thing is the guy in question is an excellent guitarist and he and other VERY good musicians and bands are doing the "I play for the love of music" B.S. tour.

The love of music is the primary reason to play music. All the rest are fringe benefits, including being paid. Yes many musicians get taken advantage of, but this is the price they pay for their love. The majority of those who play music never recoup their investment. So just do it and STFU

x2

LOL, Jimmy if your doing it to get paid and it doesnt work out then quit and do something else.

Everyone wants to blame it on people playing for free, or the club owners, its not that at all. Its all about drawing and entertaining an audience that will support you. Your in the entertainment business when you step out of the garage, its not Kansas anymore. If you can develop a consistent audience then you can ask to be paid. If you cant draw people then save yourself some grief and stay in the garage.

On a side note, last night my wife and I went out and saw this acoustic guitarist playing and singing, he was working for tips, he was mostly country, but he played a couple of originals, and a couple of them were great. I asked him why he played out for tips, he said Im mainly a songwriter and this way I get to work out my originals in public, he said sure I would like to get paid, but then I would have to stick to the standards, this way I can do my thing. His name was Nick Garrison, 20 something, nice guy and one hell of a songwriter, if he had demanded pay, I wouldnt have gotten to see him, cause I know the owner, he only hires guys that are established and draw a crowd.

These threads get very stupid to me, if you dont like what your getting paid or offered do something else, or figure out how to think outside the box. Like Jimmy said if you dont like the rules, step aside and STFU!

Just wanted to add a couple things to this after reading other comments I do read them and although one can cringe at times, other folks opinions are priceless.

Open mics: Like em and hate em who cares if the host gets paid. To me they're a ploy for bars to sell drinks and food when there is no sporting event to draw people who are usually annoyed with bands (musicians) anyhow.
Then you have the regulars that should learn or write a new song by a different artist. Hearing the same old Tom Petty-Bob Dylan-Bruce Springsteen performance of a Johnny Cash version of Bachman Turner Overdrive gets old.
To see one of the best drummers left to sit while the one of the regulars with no dynamics tries to bust the heads on the usually out of tune drum kit.
Drowning out the Bassist on the a usually weak Bass rig or worse yet plugged into the PA with poor monitors so he can barely hear what he's doing. To top all this off after the Regulars bore everyone to death they pick up and leave as soon as they're done.
By the time you get to the New Guy in the crowd the place is empty. There should be a rule you have to stay for an hour at least after your turn. No respect!
Then you have the host that is usually so over the top he reminds you of a DJ on 60's AM radio. Gets everyone fired up and then you play your soft love song to a crowd that resembles a lynch mob.
I did say I liked em too, but probably for the wrong reasons.
1. You might find that person for your band.
2. Size up the competition or to see what floats.
3. Might shock a few people (Play Neil Young's Alabama) you'd be surprised how many folks have never heard it. but they curse ol Neil anyhow.

Church Music:

If you want to make money do the Lutheran Churches my old church paid more for a single singer guitarist ( a Baptist at that) than many bands today get for a night at a club. Lots of money to be made. No offense intended.
Best part is you have fewer people hollering Freebird and don't have to deal with drunks or cheap club owners.

There are some excellent points here.
I was going to respond to one guy, and/but I kept reading, and saw another good point by someone else and then another . . .
Well!
I've seen the completion of many of my own-half-formed thoughts, which had been kicking around in the back of my mind.
.
I just gotta say that you guys are spot-on: there are some excellent points here; too many to aknowledge in even 10 minutes.
Kudos to you all.

These threads get very stupid to me, if you dont like what your getting paid or offered do something else, or figure out how to think outside the box. Like Jimmy said if you dont like the rules, step aside and STFU!

WHy would you say these threads are stupid...? I love these conversations...Lot of insight comes from them...and as you well know...Musicians gotta gripe every so often...

Just wanted to add a couple things to this after reading other comments I do read them and although one can cringe at times, other folks opinions are priceless.

Open mics: Like em and hate em who cares if the host gets paid. To me they're a ploy for bars to sell drinks and food when there is no sporting event to draw people who are usually annoyed with bands (musicians) anyhow.
Then you have the regulars that should learn or write a new song by a different artist. Hearing the same old Tom Petty-Bob Dylan-Bruce Springsteen performance of a Johnny Cash version of Bachman Turner Overdrive gets old.
To see one of the best drummers left to sit while the one of the regulars with no dynamics tries to bust the heads on the usually out of tune drum kit.
Drowning out the Bassist on the a usually weak Bass rig or worse yet plugged into the PA with poor monitors so he can barely hear what he's doing. To top all this off after the Regulars bore everyone to death they pick up and leave as soon as they're done.
By the time you get to the New Guy in the crowd the place is empty. There should be a rule you have to stay for an hour at least after your turn. No respect!
Then you have the host that is usually so over the top he reminds you of a DJ on 60's AM radio. Gets everyone fired up and then you play your soft love song to a crowd that resembles a lynch mob.
I did say I liked em too, but probably for the wrong reasons.
1. You might find that person for your band.
2. Size up the competition or to see what floats.
3. Might shock a few people (Play Neil Young's Alabama) you'd be surprised how many folks have never heard it. but they curse ol Neil anyhow.

Church Music:

If you want to make money do the Lutheran Churches my old church paid more for a single singer guitarist ( a Baptist at that) than many bands today get for a night at a club. Lots of money to be made. No offense intended.
Best part is you have fewer people hollering Freebird and don't have to deal with drunks or cheap club owners.

I Love the open Mics... Honestly, they are a captured audience for guys like me. I mean , nobody else would listen to my crap.. Not at this stage of it anyway...

Paperdog, just remember that crap makes the best fertilizer.

Paperdog, just remember that crap makes the best fertilizer.

Oh Man!...Lot of folks going home with fertilizer strewn all over em from my last open mic

I enjoy these threads as well and PD your the kinda guy that makes open mics worth going to. We have some here in Memphis that are very professional Zack Bair a guy from Dallas puts a lot of effort into our music scene. There's the Stage Stop and some smaller ones. Some of the bands on Bealle Street let folks sit in too.

The Trains here behind the house run nonstop this last year and more this new year. To me that's a sign the economy's getting better, music being a industry that counts on disposable income should improve. Once a year Elvis sightings are unbelievable. But Elvis is performing somewhere every night in Memphis.

Nicely spoke John! Making the move from your garage to the stage is so much more than the nice gear you have, the fancy clothes you bought or the number of chords you know. Number one, if you don't make a connection with people when you play you will not be making any money. Number two, if you think you should be paid for moving equipment and tuning guitars you will be disappointed! Rock and roll pussies do not last long, only the strong survive!

well said. ^.-

The love of music is the primary reason to play music. All the rest are fringe benefits, including being paid. Yes many musicians get taken advantage of, but this is the price they pay for their love. The majority of those who play music never recoup their investment. So just do it and STFU

LOL NICE !!!!

If nothing else my reward is the art. ^.^

Everyday I play and write my own stuff, and I do it my way. I don't get paid for playing out, because I don't do it anymore. A painting of sound, at least to me lol... ^.-

It is a connection that will never falter, and a connection I don't believe I will ever be able to share because of business.

C'est La Vie.

I still have it for myself though.

I have another profession, but when I get home.... and see my laptop and my guitar waiting for my warm hands, it all pays off.

I think the best part is getting better as a musician, and learning more each day about how I can express myself.

Friggin sweet.... that is worth more than any amount of money.