General Music Chat

But you're going to have to pay me for packing, unpacking, and setting up equipment.
Yeah - I know - we should do it for free, right?
But - hey - you don't work at that factory or office for free, so I guess that maybe it's ok . . .
See, I need cash for new strings; they wear out, and it's a slow and stready drain on my limited finances.
And have you ever priced replacement bass strings? I could fill my gas tank for the price of bass strings.
Oh, yeah, I'll need gas money to and from the gig, of course.
And when I get a pedal (so that I can perform more or better songs for you) I usually need another cord.
Hey, I've paid around $150 on cables alone! And - heck I'm solo! How much do you think it costs a full band, just for the cables?
And, you DO realize, of course, that the sound guy needs to be paid?
And - did you know that harmonicas wear out? They come in different keys, many harmonicists have a dozen or so, and they're about $30 each.
.
I could go on and on, but you probably don't want to hear about it.
.
But, yeah, I'll play for free.
Still - I'm not independantly wealthy; I have to PAY to entertain you.
So if you want me to play for you, you'll have to help me be able to afford it.




Note: feel free to copy and paste this on facebook or any other place you feel like it.

But you're going to have to pay me for packing, unpacking, and setting up equipment.
Yeah - I know - we should do it for free, right?
But - hey - you don't work at that factory or office for free, so I guess that maybe it's ok . . .
See, I need cash for new strings; they wear out, and it's a slow and stready drain on my limited finances.
And have you ever priced replacement bass strings? I could fill my gas tank for the price of bass strings.
Oh, yeah, I'll need gas money to and from the gig, of course.
And when I get a pedal (so that I can perform more or better songs for you) I usually need another cord.
Hey, I've paid around $150 on cables alone! And - heck I'm solo! How much do you think it costs a full band, just for the cables?
And, you DO realize, of course, that the sound guy needs to be paid?
And - did you know that harmonicas wear out? They come in different keys, many harmonicists have a dozen or so, and they're about $30 each.
.
I could go on and on, but you probably don't want to hear about it.
.
But, yeah, I'll play for free.
Still - I'm not independantly wealthy; I have to PAY to entertain you.
So if you want me to play for you, you'll have to help me be able to afford it.




Note: feel free to copy and paste this on facebook or any other place you feel like it.

The trouble with music is that we cant out-source the act... I cant convince a Club owner to pay me $6000.00 a night and then go recruit Eric Clapton to fill in for me...

I guess what I'm saying is if a musician wanna get paid seriously, he prolly needs to come up with some mind-blowing commercial material...Otherwise, he's stuck with those jack-ass bar-owners that would prefer to pay out in pizza and beer... (Of course, I'm not inclined to to turn away pizza

I love these low wage / no wage for musician rants.

No disrespect intended but either play free or don't.
I don't believe bitchin about it will ever change anything.

We play for free but most always get paid anyways.
Yes, our situation is different from that of a professional entertainer.
But I cannot help but wonder if the problem is the customers ?

My pay is based on my skillset and the length of the gig. I'm on the clock when I start loadng equipment until I unload equipment back home. If you offer to pay me minimum wage (or less) I consider that an insult and I'll probably refuse the gig. I'm not opposed to doing a benefit show once in a while to help somebody out. Too many people in Kansas city playing for peanuts or no peanuts are ruining it for people just wanting a fair wage.

Hey Bob.
I'll bet when you saw the title of this post, you started to go ballistic!

"Too many people in Kansas city playing for peanuts or no peanuts are ruining it for people just wanting a fair wage."

Wow. Never heard that before from musicians around here

We get those family hack bands that don't care what they get paid because it all ends up in the same pocket.

My point exactly ... for whom do you play?
Are they there for your music or are you background noise for skirt chasers and drunks?
Or perhaps bored yupsters imbibing too expensive coffee with unpronounceable names?

Again ... not my intent to be judge nor jury.

I just feel the problem is that musicians whom for the most part a fearfully competitive and fiercely independent must learn to work together and provide our own venues where music is the draw / drive for the crowd.
Not boredom or drunken sluts.

The question remains ... what are you / we willing to do to make that change?

Ive shared this before on here, but one of our local places to play pays the bands $150 to set up, then they get the door, minus $40 for the doorman.

I think its a good approach, at one point they paid all bands $400 a night, we would pack the place they would talk about how much the bar was making, then me and my wife would go in on a sat night when another band was there, and at midnite 20 people are in there, IM like WTF! You pay them the same as us, and we pack it from the start to finish.

Now when we play there we average around $700 a night, and the groups that only have 20 people at midnite, wind up with $200, makes sense to me.

Ive shared this before on here, but one of our local places to play pays the bands $150 to set up, then they get the door, minus $40 for the doorman.

I think its a good approach, at one point they paid all bands $400 a night, we would pack the place they would talk about how much the bar was making, then me and my wife would go in on a sat night when another band was there, and at midnite 20 people are in there, IM like WTF! You pay them the same as us, and we pack it from the start to finish.

Now when we play there we average around $700 a night, and the groups that only have 20 people at midnite, wind up with $200, makes sense to me.

Makes sense BUT there should be a base pay that takes into account a minimum pay scale. Some gigs no matter how hard you try people just don't show up. You shouldn't have to play for less than minimum wage EVER.

Hey Bob.
I'll bet when you saw the title of this post, you started to go ballistic!

Not exactly ballistic but I've heard the same crap from bands/musicians in this town. One guy had started a blues/rock jam on a Wednesday evening at a bar that previously had no live bands. A "friend" of his owned the bar, so he started the jam for free. Two years later they were pretty much packing the place every week. Then this guy lost his day gig and called me up looking for a paid gig. I said "wait a minute aren't you getting paid for your blues jam you're hosting?" He said he "can't ask to be paid because he does it as a favor for his friend." I told him I don't want to play with somebody who in effect is stabbing himself and MYSELF in the foot by playing for free.

If you want to play original music there will be indeed some nights where you play for free. If you play in a cover band you will get paid but there's a lot of competition so you might not work a lot. These are the facts of life.

Hey Bob.
I'll bet when you saw the title of this post, you started to go ballistic!

Not exactly ballistic but I've heard the same crap from bands/musicians in this town. One guy had started a blues/rock jam on a Wednesday evening at a bar that previously had no live bands. A "friend" of his owned the bar, so he started the jam for free. Two years later they were pretty much packing the place every week. Then this guy lost his day gig and called me up looking for a paid gig. I said "wait a minute aren't you getting paid for your blues jam you're hosting?" He said he "can't ask to be paid because he does it as a favor for his friend." I told him I don't want to play with somebody who in effect is stabbing himself and MYSELF in the foot by playing for free.

So a guy loses his job and you basically say F off because he had the nerve to run a open mic for free ?
Like he was stealing money from you because he played for free ?
Damn that is twisted.
Make sure you add that to your list of rules !

I'm with you Tenn,

A jam or open mike is a far cry from a disciplined band booking a gig.

Jams usually have a line of iffy musicians who find "open mikes" their only place to show off their chops, or the lack of them.

Listening to a bunch of guys playing the same old tired chops for 10 minutes at a time per song at ear splitting volume drives me to drink. ... And where would I go first? Someplace that has a real band playing.

All I will add is if you cant draw people then you arent worth much to begin with.

Bars are business's, plain and simple, most use bands to drive people into drink, or at least thats the understanding Ive gotten over the past 30 years or so. The musicians that consistently bring people and have talent tend to get most of the "true" paying gigs, as in a bar that just pays so much for entertainment, in my area that is 3-400$ per night.

I dont think someone should get paid that much for a jam night. 100-150 dollars max. Ive done these at different times, they can be a great place to meet other musicians to play with, but as a money maker, no way!

This is a tired subject on this board, but its a serious one, I think there are way too many bands that will just play for free to get a gig, however I found thru the years that if I did this once, then they always expected it too be free. But there is nothing you can do about this side of it, it is what it is.

The cure, build a loyal following that will support your band then you have some leverage.

All I will add is if you cant draw people then you arent worth much to begin with.

Bars are business's, plain and simple, most use bands to drive people into drink, or at least thats the understanding Ive gotten over the past 30 years or so. The musicians that consistently bring people and have talent tend to get most of the "true" paying gigs, as in a bar that just pays so much for entertainment, in my area that is 3-400$ per night.

I dont think someone should get paid that much for a jam night. 100-150 dollars max. Ive done these at different times, they can be a great place to meet other musicians to play with, but as a money maker, no way!

This is a tired subject on this board, but its a serious one, I think there are way too many bands that will just play for free to get a gig, however I found thru the years that if I did this once, then they always expected it too be free. But there is nothing you can do about this side of it, it is what it is.

The cure, build a loyal following that will support your band then you have some leverage.

Seems to me its a viscous cycle... I agree that if you cant draw them in... prolly aint worth any pay... But A starting Musician/perform, should expect to start off playing for free or for very small stipends... I reckon... it would take a year or two to get to a place where a venue would pay a professional rate (i.e 4-500 for the band to play a 2-4 hour set.)

From a business point of view I would call that "getting" promoted and gettin a raise. Like everything else, it takes time. Too many new musicians think its al supposed to happen immediately, overnight.