General Music Chat

Knowing that, I might write a song called Mayonnaise. Are you with me so far? Eager for Action!

Knowing that, I might write a song called Mayonnaise. Are you with me so far? Eager for Action!

I contend that if a song cant handle a 4 dollar a jar of mayonnaise, It sure as sh*t cant handle a 1 million dollar mantra that the public might clap their hands to.

Never underestimate the power and appeal of mayonnaise... It will turn ordinary ham sandwiches into ordinary ham sandwiches that slide down easier..

I believe that anybody with some musical sense, can pull out a 'song' out of thin air. What most people cannot do, is pull one out, that makes the charts, sells records and earns millions in revenue, all within a single year.
I use that as a yard stick, because such a yardstick illustrates Mass appeal...

A lot of different things have to line up at the same time for that, which have nothing to do with the songwriter or the performer.

Someone who is well known has a better chance than someone who isn't, but there are no guarantees that a great song will be a "hit" and there are hundreds of not-so-great songs that we can all point to which were.

imo, the Producer is the most important person in the process of making a hit. A good producer can make any band or song sound better than they really are, and usualy knows what to do with a band/song once it's recorded.

So I write a song just to put the idea down in musical form without really caring what someone else might think about it. After you've got 40 or so, you can pare it down to an album of 10-12 songs that you're not afraid for others to hear.

you can't learn music unless you learn something someone else has already done,
where you get your information is pretty much up to you, or the people you want to hang out with.

PaperDog

Here is a song that tells a story. A special one for you Texas boys. Next on my list to record. I use a template for all my songs and it didn't stand up too will to this text based format...

Talbot

The Last Man Over the Wall (Louis Moses Rose)
M. Peirce (Talbot) Copyright © 2010
(Use clean preset #24 [Aussie]. A metal ballad – use a Bowie knife as a pick. The story of the one fellow who did NOT cross the line Colonel Travis drew in the sand with his saber)


Alamo Intro / Bridge
Amin C F
A lot of brave and stubborn men chose then to risk it all.
C G
Colonel Travis drew his line and told them go or fight and stay.
Amin C F
One had done it all before and chose to say farewell.
G
He chose to live.
g b c d e f# g a A C G A
(He was the) Last man o’er the wall!

VERSE 1
Cmin G#
I’d marched with the little Corporal when he rose to make his name.
Amin B
As Emperor of all the French, and most of Europe too.
Cmin G#
I followed him to hell in Russia - then the winter came.
Amin F G
We ate what and whom we had to, and survived, I always do.

Instrumental Interlude

VERSE 2
Cmin G#
The Cossacks ran us down or was it Santa Anna’s lancers?
Amin B
As I grow old it runs together in my mind.
Cmin G#
The mood then was to spend my life; to make a stand and stay…
Amin F
G But I’d not come these many miles to throw my life away.


CHORUS
Amin Cmaj Gmaj
In the end the one who lived would tell the story,

Dmaj C G D
And that was who I was to be.

Amin Cmaj Gmaj
The one who lived and spoke but was denied the glory!
Dmaj C G D
Yet I was there! Those thirteen days.
Dmaj C G D
Yes I was there! Those thirteen days.

Instrumental Interlude

Verse 3
I’d fought in fights like end times and I’d walked away unscathed.

I’d braved the guns in front of Moscow, watched as my friends were swept away.

How easy - it would have been to die.

My comrades did and they were better men than I.

CHORUS

Alamo Bridge

Final
The one who lived and spoke and but was denied the glory.

He was the last man o’er the wall.
End.

PaperDog

Here is a song that tells a story. A special one for you Texas boys. Next on my list to record. I use a template for all my songs and it didn't stand up too will to this text based format...

.

Mike, That nails what I was saying about the tale. In this Case, I get the following impression

- Alamo, The place and environment which sets the tone of the song. (Even if the Alamo was intended as metaphor, (Which I do not believe it was), it clearly lays down a layer of mood and imagery. As a listener, I would know precisely the context of the song, right up front.

- a first -Person narrative depicting the characters history, and how that person ( a warrior) evolved from one stance to another. The underlying message includes the rationale behind opting to stay alive

- Nice way to punchline the rationale (The one who lived to tell the story...but denied the glory)

I could go on...

Would like to compare some notes with Pierce G's lyrics on Calcutta.

- His song also provides the pastoral for Mood and Image, (Just the title of Calcutta " could pull it off )
- His song also provides evidence of conflict... In Your case Conflict is depicted as philosophical (Self-determined manifest destiny), In his case ,conflict is depicted as pragmatic... (Man Vs System).
-Yours has punchline, but I don't recall that his song did..
- Your references to accent the experience of the warrior, were expressed and enumerated in ordinal/ chronological fashion. They were cited as facts, which were indisputable, thus, supporting the sentiment of the warrior on the face of the experiences. His references, to accent the experience of the impoverished social victim were expressed more so with metaphor, which when aligned with his facts, implied a conflict in economic and social Ideology.

Both Songs are valid songs (PierceG's hitch-hiking on Bad Religion's musical structure, not withstanding... ) ,

One song is cerebral and less inspired , whereas the other song is more inspired and less cerebral. The distinction might be important, depending on the objective of each song.

PaperDog

I've thought from hearing demos that you or Klugmo are the singers for this one. I think it is in a category somewhere between Johnny Horton and Steve Earle with a metallic sort of background, subdued but straining at the leash.

I'd love to have a writing partner to work with. My drummer and I wrote a new tune called Daybreak. For a change of pace I wrote the music and he wrote the lyrics. Don't know where it will go from there. We are very different.

We are so damned lucky to have this. Or blessed? Whatever.

Talbot

PaperDog

You are spot on in your analysis. I have a friend who is a Latvian Jew with much background in literature and history. We constantly debate and are alway surprised by the other. Sadly, he is shocked by knowing an American who actually has read Shakespeare's plays.

He challenged me to to go home and write a song about something I knew about.

"Last Man" was the result.

My pal Misha is busily putting together a sort of rock opera based on Kipling's "If." He asked me to play bass but I don't do music that way - just reading sheets. (no offense, - I just don't read fast enough) With no experience at all he made it happen. Recruited musicians, figured out how to record etc.

We can do this thing.

Talbot

Pardon my historic ignorance, but with the reference to the French, I can only guess it is a reference to Napolean (Pulldiz) Bonapart. I did not know he was a corporal. Without the french reference, it could also be about Hitler. He was a corporal in the first world war. I was a corporal when I got out of active duty. Now, that being said, I can write a song on my John Wayne toilet paper. What's that? It's rough and tough and don't take no sh!t off nobody.

Crunch

Napoleon was never actually a corporal but was know among his men on the Italian Front as le petit caporal... He was small but he was tough.

And he ultimately drowned Europe in blood. Much like the other corporal you referred to - also know as the paper hanger...

Talbot

That helps... but I would say heart trumps syllable scheme and rhyme ... every time... Then, schemes are awesome when they are properly aligned with heart. (Ask any poetry slam master)

I'm sorry, Professor, but I flunk the class. That's the best I've got on the subject matter. I'd never even HEARD of Calcutta prior to your challenge, and in exactly two hours, I researched Calcutta, incorporated local crap into the lyrics, methodically crash-coursed myself on the culture and religion, and gave you serviceable lyrics meeting your stanza requirements...while at work and being interrupted!!!

I understand what you're saying about heart, but let me tell you, I've written five or six songs from the heart and all of them have been absolute worthless drivel except for one which is a funny song about me being p!$$ed because Hardee's took the curly fries off the menu.

I can't write about Calcutta from the heart because I don't care. I had literally never heard of it until your post. I tried to do better. I wrote three different songs and none of them are even close to the one I posted.

I just wrote a Christmas song that I think is pretty funny, I posted it.

Anyway, if you can explain HOW someone writes from the heart well, I'm all ears.

That helps... but I would say heart trumps syllable scheme and rhyme ... every time... Then, schemes are awesome when they are properly aligned with heart. (Ask any poetry slam master)

I'm sorry, Professor, but I flunk the class. That's the best I've got on the subject matter. I'd never even HEARD of Calcutta prior to your challenge, and in exactly two hours, I researched Calcutta, incorporated local crap into the lyrics, methodically crash-coursed myself on the culture and religion, and gave you serviceable lyrics meeting your stanza requirements...while at work and being interrupted!!!

I understand what you're saying about heart, but let me tell you, I've written five or six songs from the heart and all of them have been absolute worthless drivel except for one which is a funny song about me being p!$$ed because Hardee's took the curly fries off the menu.

I can't write about Calcutta from the heart because I don't care. I had literally never heard of it until your post. I tried to do better. I wrote three different songs and none of them are even close to the one I posted.

I just wrote a Christmas song that I think is pretty funny, I posted it.

Anyway, if you can explain HOW someone writes from the heart well, I'm all ears.

Love this thread..

When I write, it is like engaging the autopilot.
I look down, I start to write rhythm figures.
As I am finishing with some basic lyrics so I can remember the melodic line of the vocals, I start to look up and it's over.

I write from the heart. I don't always understand it but I feel to write about something you feel passionately about is a secret ingredient to a good tune. (shhh don't tell anyone) lol

NOW recording that same song is yet another process...

That helps... but I would say heart trumps syllable scheme and rhyme ... every time... Then, schemes are awesome when they are properly aligned with heart. (Ask any poetry slam master)

I'm sorry, Professor, but I flunk the class. That's the best I've got on the subject matter. I'd never even HEARD of Calcutta prior to your challenge, and in exactly two hours, I researched Calcutta, incorporated local crap into the lyrics, methodically crash-coursed myself on the culture and religion, and gave you serviceable lyrics meeting your stanza requirements...while at work and being interrupted!!!

I understand what you're saying about heart, but let me tell you, I've written five or six songs from the heart and all of them have been absolute worthless drivel except for one which is a funny song about me being p!$$ed because Hardee's took the curly fries off the menu.

I can't write about Calcutta from the heart because I don't care. I had literally never heard of it until your post. I tried to do better. I wrote three different songs and none of them are even close to the one I posted.

I just wrote a Christmas song that I think is pretty funny, I posted it.

Anyway, if you can explain HOW someone writes from the heart well, I'm all ears.

Aw shucks Pierce, no worries..You didn't flunk anything...you did pretty good, actually... Just had to drive home some points... about song writing approach. If anything, this exercise just illustrates that 'formulations and schemes' say..based solely on syllable agreement etc, are ok, but should not be exclusively relied on for art sake... (doing so could coerce a work to sound mechanical or somehow, Unfulfilling)

I still believe that heart trumps methods...and You proved it....(With your Christmas song ) Tell me you didn't relish the journey in that piece...

check out George Harrison's song 'Bangladesh" lyrics and note the angle of his story. In an odd way, yours wasn't too different...(theme wise, both share a social injustice.) Just had a different line to work, is all..
Note that he personalizes a dilemma (the starving people, ) to reinforce his role as a spokesperson for the cause. . In fact he uses heartful language to appeal to us... Amazingly, it met the two Criteria, (Mass appeal, Commercially broad)

My friend came to me, with sadness in his eyes
He told me that he wanted help
Before his country dies

Although I couldn't feel the pain, I knew I had to try
Now I'm asking all of you
To help us save some lives

Bangla Desh, Bangla Desh
Where so many people are dying fast
And it sure looks like a mess
I've never seen such distress
Now won't you lend your hand and understand
Relieve the people of Bangla Desh

Bangla Desh, Bangla Desh
Such a great disaster - I don't understand
But it sure looks like a mess
I've never known such distress
Now please don't turn away, I want to hear you say
Relieve the people of Bangla Desh
Relieve Bangla Desh

Bangla Desh, Bangla Desh
Now it may seem so far from where we all are
It's something we can't neglect
It's something I can't neglect
Now won't you give some bread to get the starving fed
We've got to relieve Bangla Desh
Relieve the people of Bangla Desh
We've got to relieve Bangla Desh
Relieve the people of Bangla Desh

That helps... but I would say heart trumps syllable scheme and rhyme ... every time... Then, schemes are awesome when they are properly aligned with heart. (Ask any poetry slam master)

I'm sorry, Professor, but I flunk the class. That's the best I've got on the subject matter. I'd never even HEARD of Calcutta prior to your challenge, and in exactly two hours, I researched Calcutta, incorporated local crap into the lyrics, methodically crash-coursed myself on the culture and religion, and gave you serviceable lyrics meeting your stanza requirements...while at work and being interrupted!!!

I understand what you're saying about heart, but let me tell you, I've written five or six songs from the heart and all of them have been absolute worthless drivel except for one which is a funny song about me being p!$$ed because Hardee's took the curly fries off the menu.

I can't write about Calcutta from the heart because I don't care. I had literally never heard of it until your post. I tried to do better. I wrote three different songs and none of them are even close to the one I posted.

I just wrote a Christmas song that I think is pretty funny, I posted it.

Anyway, if you can explain HOW someone writes from the heart well, I'm all ears.

Love this thread..

When I write, it is like engaging the autopilot.
I look down, I start to write rhythm figures.
As I am finishing with some basic lyrics so I can remember the melodic line of the vocals, I start to look up and it's over.

I write from the heart. I don't always understand it but I feel to write about something you feel passionately about is a secret ingredient to a good tune. (shhh don't tell anyone) lol

NOW recording that same song is yet another process...

Yep You got that right..(recording)
Couple of my tunes, I started tracks , thinking 'enchilada' and wound up with a zig-zag esmerelda... Go Figure!
Its very tricky to capture the sounds that we imagine in our heads..

Aw shucks Pierce, no worries..You didn't flunk anything...you did pretty good, actually... Just had to drive home some points... about song writing approach. If anything, this exercise just illustrates that 'formulations and schemes' say..based solely on syllable agreement etc, are ok, but should not be exclusively relied on for art sake... (doing so could coerce a work to sound mechanical or somehow, Unfulfilling)

You proved your point very well. I might try to incorporate a more heartfelt approach. I'm not really into the Astronomy, but I will say that, as a Capricorn, I'm not very emotive.

You're right, though, style points will only get me so far.

I still believe that heart trumps methods...and You proved it....(With your Christmas song ) Tell me you didn't relish the journey in that piece...

I did, but the funny thing is, it hardly took me any time. It certainly took me less time than the Calcutta thing, actually it took twenty minutes.

The hardest part was finding a way to incorporate Reebok, but there were some terrific Reebok high tops that I wanted and didn't get when I was nine. I finally figured out that Reebok rhymes with c***, and then it was like, "You can't do that in a Christmas song, even in jest," but then the little devil on the left shoulder said, "The f*** you can't!"

check out George Harrison's song 'Bangladesh" lyrics and note the angle of his story. In an odd way, yours wasn't too different...(theme wise, both share a social injustice.) Just had a different line to work, is all..

Those lyrics are quite good, very emotive. I could have written something like that in response to the challenge, I think, maybe I was just trying to impress too much?

Note that he personalizes a dilemma (the starving people, ) to reinforce his role as a spokesperson for the cause. . In fact he uses heartful language to appeal to us... Amazingly, it met the two Criteria, (Mass appeal, Commercially broad)

Very true.