General Music Chat

1.) I'm going to try.

2.) Calcutta doesn't have mass appeal.

3.) You kind of liked my lyrics to your song!

4.) I'm going to spend 71 hours researching Calcutta and an hour writing the song!!!

Ready for this s***?

This will be in the style of the verses of, "Punk Rock Song," by Bad Religion, to be sung the same way.

"Untitled"

Kali has descended upon us and now all has turned black,
The Maidan Lungs of Kolkata failed to breathe new life;
The Hooghly is ever-abundant yet I'm still at a lack,
For this so-called opportunity I left my kids and wife.



The Corporation is too worried about traffic to feed me,
Our buildings and our culture are designed to impress;
The denizens of the world bringing in all the money,
While the Repulbic's own are under great duress!

Let's Go!





The Haldia docks didn't have anything for me to do,
While men speaking no Bengali can feed their family;
The pride in my country is something I'm starting to eschew,
Because it looks as though my country has forgotten me!




The Corporation is too worried about traffic to feed me,
Our buildings and our culture are designed to impress;
The denizens of the world bringing in all the money,
While the Repulbic's own are under great duress!





Ultimately I know that Maa Durga will smile on me,
Determination and hard work makes us all who we are;
I've sworn myself to protect and watch over my family,
And my duties as Father are not completed by far.


_____________________________________________________________

If these lyrics don't pass, in your estimation, I'll try again.

Yod

I think you nailed it with "floating in the air." Songs seem to just be there, ephemeral, revealing themselves for a short time. Sometimes i don't move fast enough and only catch a phrase or two - into the notebook they go.

Sometimes a title appears and from that a song germinates. I confess that i love my tunes but don't feel like it was any big chore to write them - just a gift from God, the muse or perhaps, just floating around...

Talbot

Ready for this s***?

This will be in the style of the verses of, "Punk Rock Song," by Bad Religion, to be sung the same way.

"Untitled"

Kali has descended upon us and now all has turned black,
The Maidan Lungs of Kolkata failed to breathe new life;
The Hooghly is ever-abundant yet I'm still at a lack,
For this so-called opportunity I left my kids and wife.



The Corporation is too worried about traffic to feed me,
Our buildings and our culture are designed to impress;
The denizens of the world bringing in all the money,
While the Repulbic's own are under great duress!

Let's Go!





The Haldia docks didn't have anything for me to do,
While men speaking no Bengali can feed their family;
The pride in my country is something I'm starting to eschew,
Because it looks as though my country has forgotten me!




The Corporation is too worried about traffic to feed me,
Our buildings and our culture are designed to impress;
The denizens of the world bringing in all the money,
While the Repulbic's own are under great duress!





Ultimately I know that Maa Durga will smile on me,
Determination and hard work makes us all who we are;
I've sworn myself to protect and watch over my family,
And my duties as Father are not completed by far.


_____________________________________________________________

If these lyrics don't pass, in your estimation, I'll try again.

LOL! Pierce, Not Bad for a first pass, However....

They do not meet the two criteria I asked for. (Hint, If you master one, you'll nail down the other).

STRUCTURE:
BAD PARTS
- You repeated one of the stanzas... So you gave me 3 outta 4
- You did not create the meter or the rhythm. Instead, you borrowed from an existing Song. Therefore, it is technically a shared inspiration and innovation...Not entirely yours. (You grand sampler, you! ) Note: The song/music you picked might get lost on anybody who doesn't listen to that band's music.... If they are to get lost, better if its cause of new original work

GOOD PARTS
The fact that you can adapt your own set of words to an existing structure is itself a talent...In fact, it is awsome, because if you ever team up with a musical ace, you can rip through lyrics for his/her music ...with full chops... Then you guys could do some serious damage out there... I might add your phrasings were cohesive and gosh darn ...as I predicted..., you had a few clever rhymes...
-Interesting, how your lyrics took that direction .... Lends to capturing some attention... (HEY! That rhymes!)

CONTENT:

CRITERIA ONE: (MEANINGFULNESS) - First, Let me disabuse the notion that Calcutta has no Mass Appeal. Calcutta is Indian, and India has a 400 year history with the British... In 1960's, the introduction of the Sitar, by the world's leading band (from UK) took listeners by storm... My point here is that Calcutta is synonymous with a tonal-texture that is ethereal, mystical, spiritual and beautiful. There is no Country in the world that disputes this. It is a key signature of that culture. Ok, so There is your Mass Appeal...
In your first pass here, your story is way too broad of an overview... As a story goes, its not telling me anything distinct or profound (yet)...But it does invoke some imagery, which is a good start... Gotta give us a tale , bro!

Some other things to consider: Find character(s), find common denominators that are acknowledged politically, religiously , socially (any and all) by anyone from cowboys to serial killers to aliens ...Cause the common denominators are credible and widely accepted regardless of their level of controversy When you got those down, then throw your twist in there, including 'moral of the story', message, mood, etc

CRITERIA TWO: (Commercially broad... (Resonates with mass appeal)
If you get Criteria One down, then this part kind of falls in place (when the timing is right) . The key thing here... If you dont have a bit of criteria one in your song, its awful hard for the promoters and agents to push your work out there...
No matter what your genre, style, taste of technical capability...In the Music business.., It seems you have to invoke woodies out of the audience to get your work noticed...There is no other way to put it.

Ok, Professor Paperdog is getting thirsty now... Beer Call!

LOL! Pierce, Not Bad for a first pass, However....

They do not meet the two criteria I asked for. (Hint, If you master one, you'll nail down the other).

STRUCTURE:
BAD PARTS
- You repeated one of the stanzas... So you gave me 3 outta 4
- You did not create the meter or the rhythm. Instead, you borrowed from an existing Song. Therefore, it is technically a shared inspiration and innovation...Not entirely yours. (You grand sampler, you! ) Note: The song/music you picked might get lost on anybody who doesn't listen to that band's music.... If they are to get lost, better if its cause of new original work

I did no such thing. The repeated stanza is the chrous, there are five total stanzas and four of them are independent.

To your second point:

1.) That's what I do. I either write lyrics to go with the music, or I write lyrics independent of music and then music gets put to those lyrics.

2.) I don't have to use, "Punk Rock Song," you could do something Type O Negative style and go slow, clearly enunciated and deep with the entire thing and it will work.

3.) Influences are impossible to avoid. Almost all of my lyrics, with rare exceptions, start off with the line and tune of another song. Eventually, my lyrics kind of take on their own tune. I could make no less than a dozen arguments for what could be done with these.

GOOD PARTS
The fact that you can adapt your own set of words to an existing structure is itself a talent...In fact, it is awsome, because if you ever team up with a musical ace, you can rip through lyrics for his/her music ...with full chops... Then you guys could do some serious damage out there... I might add your phrasings were cohesive and gosh darn ...as I predicted..., you had a few clever rhymes...
-Interesting, how your lyrics took that direction .... Lends to capturing some attention... (HEY! That rhymes!)

I appreciate your compliments with respect to that. I've always maintained that the most important fundamental elements to good lyric writing are just maintaining a consistent syllable scheme and rhyme scheme.

CONTENT:

There is no Country in the world that disputes this. It is a key signature of that culture. Ok, so There is your Mass Appeal...
In your first pass here, your story is way too broad of an overview... As a story goes, its not telling me anything distinct or profound (yet)...But it does invoke some imagery, which is a good start... Gotta give us a tale , bro!

I'll give you that, which is why I incorporated no less than four specific Kolkata (proper name) references and two references to deities in the Hindu Religion.

Kali-God of darkness.

Maidan Lungs of Kolkata- Opulent area of Kolkata that hosts sporting events.

Hooghly- River that runs along Kolkata.

The Corporation- NOT A GENERALIZATION. The Corporation is a Government entity that handles the majority of public welfare programs and Kolkata's road system.

The Republic: Republic of India

Haldia Docks- Docks along the Hooghly in Calcutta, no jobs available.

Bengali- Native language of Kolkata, white-collars speak English.

Maa Durga- Mother Goddess who redeems in times of utmost distress.

-Hard work and family values, in general, are central to all Indian culture.

Some other things to consider: Find character(s), find common denominators that are acknowledged politically, religiously , socially (any and all) by anyone from cowboys to serial killers to aliens ...Cause the common denominators are credible and widely accepted regardless of their level of controversy When you got those down, then throw your twist in there, including 'moral of the story', message, mood, etc

The moral of the story is just to keep your faith and not give up because Maa Durga will always be looking out for you. Regardless of the Religion, both spirtuality, hard work and determination are extremely important apsects of the Indian culture. In the meantime, there are many amongst the lower classes of India who are against the widespread use of English in favor of other Indian languages.

I don't know what you mean by characters, I think I have found common denominators. The singer is the narrator and is the character, hence the first-person. These are definitely Punk Rock style lyrics.

I thought that was a great song, bro.

Couldn't understand it but that goes for most Beatles songs too.



And mass appeal? I think there are more people in Calcutta than in the whole USA so there ya go.

Yod

I think you nailed it with "floating in the air." Songs seem to just be there, ephemeral, revealing themselves for a short time. Sometimes i don't move fast enough and only catch a phrase or two - into the notebook they go.


Talbot

Ain't that the truth? I've forgotten a lot more songs than I've written just because I didn't get a pencil and paper fast enough.

I've started a lot of songs...but have never finished one without sitting down with a pencil. I also find that having most of an idea is enough to start recording a demo, and it gets finished as I put the demo together and hear what I've got.

I did no such thing. The repeated stanza is the chrous, there are five total stanzas and four of them are independent.

My Bad I miscounted.

3.) Influences are impossible to avoid. Almost all of my lyrics, with rare exceptions, start off with the line and tune of another song. Eventually, my lyrics kind of take on their own tune. I could make no less than a dozen arguments for what could be done with these.

I gotta wonder where the first song writers got their influences from...Whose songs did they start tunefully similar to? I guess this is where you and I may part ways... Not saying your way is wrong... But When I write and vocalize a line, I'm striving to make it me from the very beginning. In fact I am trying to achieve a level of tunefulness that falls out as easily as if I simply held a conversation...(Dramatic overtones, effect and embellishments not withstanding) , In Short, I try to be as honest in essence of the phrase as possible. Now, I will agree that its almost impossible to avoid influences...so yeah, its reasonable to expect some margin for that... but I try to avoid gratuitous use of it.

I've always maintained that the most important fundamental elements to good lyric writing are just maintaining a consistent syllable scheme and rhyme scheme.

That helps... but I would say heart trumps syllable scheme and rhyme ... every time... Then, schemes are awesome when they are properly aligned with heart. (Ask any poetry slam master)

I thought that was a great song, bro.

Couldn't understand it but that goes for most Beatles songs too.



And mass appeal? I think there are more people in Calcutta than in the whole USA so there ya go.

YOD, are you telling us you absolutely never understood that... Paul, walking barefoot on Abbey Road was a sign that he was replaced by a double, cause he was dead? Have you not played Strawberry Fields Forever Backwards?

I seem to spend most of my time de-composing.


For many years I worked on the craft and learned how to put words together on any subject, then attach music. Sometimes I'd come up with a cool riff and hear a melody...then just fill in the blanks.

But these days a song has to start with a good idea or strong inspiration. Then the words and music seem to be floating low in the air and easy to grab.

I think there is a difference between 'Ideas" floating around and a system of well planned ideas floating around.. In Other words, simple melodies, versus entire finished songs in one's head.

Any and all songs are just aural constructs , derived out of the minds of individuals , who maintain an infinite combination of perspectives, distinct from the next mind, and so on... As such, I believe that anybody with some musical sense, can pull out a 'song' out of thin air. What most people cannot do, is pull one out, that makes the charts, sells records and earns millions in revenue, all within a single year.
I use that as a yard stick, because such a yardstick illustrates Mass appeal...

Where's taylor Hicks when you need her?

My posted "Song" on the topic "What would Jesus do?" finds me guilty of ripping off another tune. I don't apologize for that. I did that for two reasons. 1) because I have no way of Uploading music- yet. 2) I wanted my message to be clear with the music already stained in your heads with a positive note. There's something sad, and unsure in the original which may not have been the original artist's intention. Paper, your post on this topic may help me develop as a writer if I can use your method. Although your Mission Challenge may have been easier if it were to write about Nantucket.

When you write, if your feelings don't get in the way,
how could it be part of you? Or any good?
I have no concerns for my audiences ( or lack of
audience) likes or dislikes when I write.
I write a song, 9 times out of 10 starting with
the music, because I find it much harder to be original
musically than lyrically. So I got a musical idea
and start singing to it, and see a concept, or idea,
or even message, starting to take form. Then I write,
and rewrite, and rewrite, with this concept, or idea,
or message, until it is fully incorporated into the
song.
It seems with many songs a idea is put forth, than
attacked, or looked at from a different angle,
than the idea is restated again from an unbeatable,
indefensible, mythical, or fantastical angle.

A part of a line in a song I wrote on songwriting goes
"waiting for the words to ignore", cause I get all these
words coming to me, I ignore most (write, rewrite, rewrite),
and then somewhere amongs all these words is the
song I'm looking for, or is being given to me, or both.

Musically when I write I just start playing, mainly guitar,
but lately have started composing on the piano. The current
bunch of tunes I'm working on, I'm trying to keep a
thematic continuity about them, each one lyrically (and
to some extent musically) plays off, or enhances the
other.
Musically I'm not above stealing from past masters,
this has been done for ages. One of the best songs I
wrote I took Stairway to Heaven lowered the intro a
whole step, increased the bpm dramatically, and then
crossed it? blended it with Goodbye Yellow Brick Road,
and this became my music for the verses. I really
had to work on coming up with good music for the
chorus to match or compliment the verses,
I really don't know how I do it I just do it, and can't
seem to stop doing it.
There's my 2 dollars worth.

Conversationally, I see total change ups in BPM on exact chord patterns Stolen from the masters, or that they themselves have stolen.Part of my perplexity with this subject is this...How many different ways can you do a series of chords before becoming part of the accused rippers. When you know what songs use those patterns you can then be an accuser, or not? I can think of a whole plethora of tunes that use the same chord patterns as in Classical Gas. Maybe Mason Williams was the origin of multi- finger Fnck on this chord pattern, I don't think it was the origin of the chord pattern. Add to that, reading sheet on said music says "With Feeling". Does that mean the feeling you have at a time of recent or impending divorce, that may be a constant reminder was your first demise, so to speak years and years after because of a song's success you won't be able to let it go. At what expense are we expendable. Money, yes. Time?

My posted "Song" on the topic "What would Jesus do?" finds me guilty of ripping off another tune. I don't apologize for that. I did that for two reasons. 1) because I have no way of Uploading music- yet. 2) I wanted my message to be clear with the music already stained in your heads with a positive note. There's something sad, and unsure in the original which may not have been the original artist's intention.

Nay Worries Crunchy... Its not a sin to 'borrow' another song in order to convey 'Its" message to listeners... DJ's have been doing that for a long time.
My whole point in this thread is to observe caution in the casual notion of pulling out songs from thin air, and/or constructing songs by formulated methods and schemes,( And even then I aint saying those methods are wrong) .. I'm just saying that the end product should strive to be naturally honest.. (essence before dress and presence). To that end, one should not solely rely on the aforementioned approaches, exclusively. NOTE I am talking about the 'art' in the crafting of artful songs.

Paper, your post on this topic may help me develop as a writer if I can use your method. Although your Mission Challenge may have been easier if it were to write about Nantucket.

Keeping it honest is the entire trick to it... Everything else is 'skill of embellishment'... (essence before dress and presence). It takes some of us a life time to achieve that...[/b]