General Music Chat

Lynard

"...Play the minor pentatonic in a major mode.."

I'm not clear on what you mean. I had assumed that a pentatonic minor by it's nature would be a subset of the Aeolean (minor) mode. How would you overlay a major mode (like Ionian) without sounding discordant?

What would be the specifics of doing that? (I hate to miss out on good trick!)

thanks
Talbot

You don't learn that language in a garage!

Crunch, the Aeolean and Ionian are 2 of the 7 modes.

Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Lochrian. you should learn and memorize all 7. I use them as finger exercises. They are awesome as exercises because they teach your fingers to move independently of one another. If you practice them long enough they will train your ear to hear certain notes of a scale over almost any chord change. IMO these are the single most important thing you can learn as a musician to strengthen your solo abilities! They are the 7 ancient scales.

Hey Talbot,
!st off Mike the Aeolian scale is a major scale it is
the 6th mode of the major scale. The major modes
contain 7 notes while the pentatonic contain 5, penta=5.

The pentatonic minor scale is just like the blues scale
minus the blues note, since there are 5 notes in the pentatonic
minor scale there are 5 modes of the scale one mode starting
on each note of the pentatonic minor scale.

So what I'm saying is this, in the Key of G (but works the same
in all keys), the 1st note in the pentatonic minor scale is G,
3rd fret 6th string, the 2nd note is A# 6th fret 6 th string,
the nextnote is C 3rd fret 5th string, the next is D 5th fret 5th
string, the next note is F 3rd fret 4th string, these 5 notes
G,A#, C, D,F.are repeated as G 4th string 5th fret, A# 3rd
string 3rd fret, C 3rd string 5 th fret, D 2nd string 3rd fret,
F 2nd string 6th fret, and G 1st string 3rd fret, and I always
use the A# again, 1st string 6th fret. That is the pentatonic
minor scale 1st mode across 2 octaves. Not to confuse you
but that is also the 5th position of the A# pentatonic major
scale, anyway.

The 2nd positionof the G pentatonic minor scale starts on A#,
and the order of the notes is A#,C,D,F,G,A#. In the key of G
you would start on the A# on the 6th string 6th fret, then work
the notes out from there,ie.. C 6th string 8th fret, D 5th string
5th fret, F 5th string 8th fret, G 4th string 5th fret, and A# 4th
string 8th fret, C 3rd string 5th fret,D 3rd string 7th fret, F 2nd
string 6th fret, G 2nd string 8th fret, and A# is 1st string 6th
fret, and once again I sometimes pick up that C note at 1st string
8th fret. This is 2nd position pentatonic minor scale, if you take this
finger pattern or scale and move it to G, and start this 2nd position
scale with G 6th string 3rd fret, instead of starting at A# you have
1st position pentatonic major scale.

So the 1st position pentatonic major scale in the Key of G starts
with G 6th string 3rd fret, next will be A 6th string 5th fret,then
B 5th string 2nd fret, D 5th string, then E 4th string 2nd fret, then
G 3rd string 5th fret, A 3rd string 2nd fret, B 3rd string 4th fret,
D 2nd string 3rd fret, E 2nd string 5th fret, G 1st string 3rd fret,
and A 1st string 5th fret.

See the 1st position pentatonic major scale is the same fingering
as the 2nd position pentatonic minor scale, and all modes in minor and
major relate the same. It's there go try it.

You guys got me here, I just play what sounds good to me.

Need to brush up on modes!

These are finger patterns you know JW,
pentatonic minor scale is identical(as far
as finger patterns go as the pentatonic mjor scale,
the major gives you that sweet sound, I use it
in damn near all country tunes. Like I said you know this
JW, you just might not know it

Example G pentatonic minor scale 1st position same fingere
pattern as the 5 th position A# pentatonic major scale.
And so the 1st position A pentatonic major scale is the
same as the 2nd postion G pentatonic minor scales.

So you see Mike there are 5 pentatonic major and 5
pentatonic minor scales, just played in different positions
on the fretboard. And all scales whether major or minor
play on the "tops" and "bottoms of the neighboring scale.

Play that pentatonic major scale and you will hear the
Dickie Betts sound, or Gary Rossington's standard lick
(Gimme Three Steps, Whiskey Rock a Rolla) Rossingtons
lick (bend 1 play 3) is played out of the pentatonic major
scale 5th position. It's a sweeter scale and not as bluesy
or sad as the pentatonic minor scale.

Well that's my lecture on scales, I hope it helps.
There's more to it but that's the bare bones
explanation. Practice those pentatonic major scales,
and you'll be playing like Dickie, and Gary and
3/4's of the country players out there.

Thanks Lynard for the therapy, er er I mean theory lesson.

I actually studing music in college, but since then Ive been on a delearning quest, in my case for solos, I just sorta hum an idea in my head and play without really thinking in therotical terms.

Kinda funny, I do know these things but they are just second nature to me these days, Sometimes I visualize solos in shapes on the fret board, or move up a string at a time moving the root note 2-3-4 steps, when I get to the hi end of a solo I love little chromatic things.

But its good to read and brush up on sometimes so thanks!

And oh yeah you are much cheaper than my therapist! LOL

I hear you JW, I usually just play wherever
my fingers take me. I heard someone talk about
"finger memory" I believe it's what they called it,
kinda what I do. I decide whether to play the major or
the minor scale and let my fingers takeoff, they know
what sounds good.

Ilove the pentatonic scales, it's just so much easier
to make 5 notes sound good against a melody or a
chord progression, then say 7 notes of the major
scale, or the 12 notes of the chromatic scale.

Your right, any note you can play will fit and sound good.
And stepwise(or 1/2 stepwise) always sound good. When I
hit a "wrong" note I'll sometimes go back 2 to 20 times on that
note and you'll think I planned it that way, instead I'm really
trying to cover my azz, then again sometimes that "wrong"
note is the best part of the solo.

I've worked and run around all morning, I think I'll spend
some quality time in my rehearsal studio this afternoon,
at least till the little woman gets here.

OMG,LOL, I don't even know what an IMO is but I'll use it here!

Listening to 08 THE DAY JESUS DIED. Good enough to be national spotlight. I kinda' get a feel as if Steve Miller were to play Helter Skelter. Your rythm has that rare Steve miller quality. Makes me want to sit and cuddle up with my bible and a beer!

Thanks Crunchy, that one is kinda straight out of the bible, I did another one called When The Lion Roars, basically I took the story of Daniel and the Lions den and turned it around from the perspective of the lions in the den, what they were thinking when Daniel came in the den, and the head lion holds the other lions off keeping Daniel safe. Then of course King Darius sends in Daniels accusers, plus being old testament, King Darius throws the men, women and children in there. The Old Testament storys are very harsh.

Just a side note, my son and I raced motocross for a number of years, before we started that we were very involved with church, I complained to track owners that no one was being a minister at the races, as most of them were on sundays, SO I got elected and was the motocross preacher for 5 years.

Crunchy if you like the intro to The Day That Jesus Died, that was an old finger exercise I used to do.

Basically you put your ring finger on the low G on the fat E string, 3 downstrokes there and then use your pinky finger to pull off the 3rd fret on the G string and let it ring, then move to Bflat with your first finger 3 downstrokes then pull off the 3rd fret on the G string, then your ring finger on the C on your A string 3 downstrokes and then pull off the 3rd fret on the G string.

Its a great exercise for me to seperate what my fingers are doing, plus letting an open string ring, gives it a nice feel. The key is being able to just let the G string ring while you go thru the walk. I used to go up and down the G scale and do this letting the G string ring, I think I upstroke the pull offs on the G string.

you can do things like this on the hi E String, B String and the G String to add a nice effect, almost chorusy.

I think things like this little exercise allow you to articulate your notes better.

Jw, I finally got the chance today to experiment with the Phase 90 pedal OMG! If you want the Van Halen sound with your Phase 90 put it right after your tuner before every other pedal! I swear I have finally found the HOLY GRAIL of guitar tone (A LA Van Halen) Now when I play Eruption it sounds just like Eddie! While watching Southern Miss. Beat my beloved Cougars (during commercials and Half time) I just could not put the guitar down! I am so Frikken EXCITED!

Bump

Hey JW, I didn't mean to take over your
thread with my rant on pentatonic scales.
The guy asked how to play a major in a minor
mode so I told him. I thought about what he
said "hate to miss out on a good trick", and after
thinking abouit it the only good trick I know of
is practice.

I'm going to have to come out there and take
a lesson on pedals one day when Ain't Your Mama
is playing. You strike me as a real pro, and pedals
are my weak point, gotta get me one.

Hope your stomp the hell out of your new pedal.