General Music Chat

Wow . . . so much to absorb and comment on!
I'll just state two things;

1 Time doesn't exist, as every physicist is well aware of, it is subjective and exists only by individual perception.

2 Of course (as you all expected) . . . I agree, there is no such thing as the Abrahamic god (or any gods, devils, angels, demons, etc. for that matter).

it may not exist for you, but it exists for me

Time or God?

Geeze , you guys have gotten to deep for me . GOOD post DOG.

Same for all the other posts.

Now only if we had some leaders that used their brains also.

oh, mans you guys. I'm going to have to read all of this tomorrow sometime haha. I need sleep. but I wanted to ask another question to clarify...so what you guys are saying is that the ONLY way to salvation through God, is through Christ and to verbally ask him into your heart to be saved? I'm not saying I believe in one thing, but not the other. I want to believe in something that gives me purpose in life, which would be God, which would make heaven and hell a real place to me. I just have a hard time believing in something I don't have enough answers to. I believe in possibility. perhaps it is selfish of me, but if there is a heaven and hell, I don't want to go to hell for what I believe to be no good reason (just because I didn't go to church every sunday and didn't accept Jesus as my savior). I'm not sure if I can believe that love and faith are one in the same. love is an emotional feeling. faith is trusting in something that cannot be seen. but more on this when I am more awake lol.

April,

There are so many people on earth who believe they have some sort of monopoly on Christ's salvation and knowledge of.... Consequently, they spew out the hell-fire and brimstone, as though they were the right hand authority about God and heaven and Hell. The irony is they miss the most salient point about salvation and the gift of life.

I say, Ignore them and decide for yourself in your own pace, in your own way. God's got all the time in the universe

Having said that, here is my very short story to describe what it takes to make it to heaven:

Once upon a time a bearded man knocked on my door. When I answered it, he greeted me , saying: "Hey there Bro! Just wanted to give you this ticket." So, the man handed me the ticket. Then he said: " The ticket gets you into the biggest, bestest party you will ever experience... for the entire rest of your life! He paused...then continued, "Now here's the kicker,.. the entire rest of your life will last forever at this party... which really works out, 'cause you really wont wanna leave the party, once you get there!
We'll definitely expect you... and I look forward to seeing you there... Cio baby!"

The man turned around and started to leave...

Then I piped up, "Hey just a dang minute there, fella! Lemme wrap my head around this before you take off like that..." The man turned slowly and stood, patiently waiting, as I began to drum up some questions: I asked him, "How the heck do I get to this party? " He responded, "Take this...has all the directions" , and he tossed a small book at me. It was titled 'Holy Bible' on the cover. Then I asked him, "How much do I owe you for this ticket?" He smiled, and said.. 'On The house, bro.. Don't even worry bout it". I responded with skepticism, "You're telling me You want me at this party, no cost to me, and i don't even know you dude...! The man gazed through my shoulder, and knocked out a fly that was behind me... Then he started, "Uhhh yeah...you're right....that might be a problem. Tell you what; When you get to the party, just be sure you tell the bouncer that It was me who sent for ya." The man smiled and continued, "He might even ask you a few questions about me...Just to make sure you aren't skankin' him to get in the door... But that's all in the book there. I will drop by from time to time to coach ya where you need it... " The man turned as he waved good-by, and headed around the corner until he was no longer in sight.
As I stood in my door way, I had a ticket, I had the Map-quest, Just need to figure out what train to take...and also, what the heck was that dude's name?

Dog,

We will simply have to agree to disagree on the bottom line.

I can totally respect that.

“Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8.”

I have a goal of someday reading the Bible and the Qur'an and any other sacred text out there. I used to have a copy of both and I had a hard time getting into either of them. I've tried going to church, presbyterian and baptist. No luck there either. Reading about indigenous religions now and a lot of the foundation of it seems to fit my beliefs, but then there are some rituals and other beliefs that don't fit at all. Hmmmm.

I have a goal of someday reading the Bible and the Qur'an and any other sacred text out there. I used to have a copy of both and I had a hard time getting into either of them. I've tried going to church, presbyterian and baptist. No luck there either. Reading about indigenous religions now and a lot of the foundation of it seems to fit my beliefs, but then there are some rituals and other beliefs that don't fit at all. Hmmmm.

Save your energy and just read Carl Jung's psychoanalytical explanations of religion.

I have a goal of someday reading the Bible and the Qur'an and any other sacred text out there. I used to have a copy of both and I had a hard time getting into either of them. I've tried going to church, presbyterian and baptist. No luck there either. Reading about indigenous religions now and a lot of the foundation of it seems to fit my beliefs, but then there are some rituals and other beliefs that don't fit at all. Hmmmm.

You get the full text of the Bible online for free if you don't want to buy a hard-copy. Biblegateway.com is one of those resources - just an fyi.

Here is an excellent article on why we need a savior and who that savior is. It is the gist of the Christian doctrine.

http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt047.htm

It's a bit long, but at least outlines the message.

April

Read a chapter of the new Testament and a Psalm everyday. You'll start to get it pretty quick.

I trust the Bible - I don't trust most churches.

Since I'm a Lutheran I can recommend a real cut and dried approach to Christianity - Wisconsin Synod (see WELS on the Web) or Missouri Synod in a pinch.

Talbot

It is impossible for carnal man to understand the things of God. You must be born of the spirit to understand the things of the spirit.

I'm not even reading the whole thread cause I'm burnt on wrangling pointlessly on a online forum over religion, but I'll put in my .02 and just say:
well said lad!

Don't believe the hype . . .


In Jungian psychology, the Collective Unconscious has roots in the deep ancestral past of the entire human species. These include distant ancestor’s experiences with universal concepts like God, mother, water, earth, that are transmitted through the generations so that people in every time have been influenced by their primate ancestor’s primordial experiences. The contents of the collective unconscious are the same (more or less) for people of every culture! This is what creates our myths, legends, and religious experiences.

Archetypes are ancient images that derive from the collective unconscious. They are similar in that they are emotionally toned collections of associated images. The Hero is one of the many archetypes and is represented in mythology and legends as a powerful person, sometimes part god, and one who fights evil.

Don't believe the hype . . .


In Jungian psychology, the Collective Unconscious has roots in the deep ancestral past of the entire human species. These include distant ancestor’s experiences with universal concepts like God, mother, water, earth, that are transmitted through the generations so that people in every time have been influenced by their primate ancestor’s primordial experiences. The contents of the collective unconscious are the same (more or less) for people of every culture! This is what creates our myths, legends, and religious experiences.

Archetypes are ancient images that derive from the collective unconscious. They are similar in that they are emotionally toned collections of associated images. The Hero is one of the many archetypes and is represented in mythology and legends as a powerful person, sometimes part god, and one who fights evil.

In Freudian Psychology, Sigmund asks... What is it that Carl wants?

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Here's the thing about Psychology... The experts would all agree, that to some extent Jung was on to an interesting phenomonon about the human mind.

Have you ever noticed though, how many wealthy people, for example, don't share the same archetypes that extremely poor people hold on to? That alone, places the Jung theory at a grave risk of discredit. Here is why...

1) Jung could not substantiate any of his original claims about ancestral pasts. In fact, his ideas parallel an earlier theory from classical philosophers surrounding the concept of "Apriori" (or "Prior Knowledge") They contended that humans have this Apriori. (Kant would try to explain some of this by citing that there are "universal imperatives", which we innately follow. SO Jung's ideas weren't entirely new, and in fact he did simply try to build on existing tenets (for the sake of Psychology) .

2) Archetyopes go all the way back to Plato, who wrote about master forms and how we were:"... but poor copies of these forms"


3) Sociologists Used the concept of Archetype to help identify and explain driving motivators for many human belief systems. It could be described by stating that we all operate on symbolization, and as such we engineer our lives around these symbols to define our roles, and obtain status. (All this to avoid pain, mind you.) They state that everything we see, feel, touch... is represented in symbol to which we assign a name. Example: 'Apple'...describes a fruit...but what exactly "is" an Apple? (Kant would argue that we can never know the essence behind anything...thus we don't really know what an apple is, except by some apriori, which we take comfort in and we rely on to accept what we see as an apple. ) The point here is that Symbols precede Human interactions, reactions, (Mentally, Emotionally, other) and ultimately drive our behaviors. Note that pain and death ten thousand years ago is the same as it is today.

If you think about spirituality...Its just another state or domain about us, where we choose to abandon one set of symbols for a different set of symbols. However , none of this negates the "imperatives".

If I worship Christ, then as a frail, weak, imperfect manifestation of human being, My conscience is the only thing I have to help me seek, detect, read and decipher the symbols, which compel me to believe in my salvation.

I look around the world of symbols, and many of them tell me I am in grave danger. Occasionally, I see symbols that tell me how to escape that danger.

If I replace the word Christ, for the word, hope or love, would you construe me as an agent of Myth?. Hope and Love, cannot be described with any physical symbol I know of. As Slacker suggested earlier, Carnal man can't really know how to describe Hope and Love. But in our world of Symbols, I can attach an Alias and call Hope and Love, GOD.

It is impossible for carnal man to understand the things of God. You must be born of the spirit to understand the things of the spirit.

I'm not even reading the whole thread cause I'm burnt on wrangling pointlessly on a online forum over religion, but I'll put in my .02 and just say:
well said lad!

The thread aint about religion./.. (Perhaps you should read the whole thread...

.If I worship Christ, then as a frail, weak, imperfect manifestation of human being, My conscience is the only thing I have to help me seek, detect, read and decipher the symbols, which compel me to believe in my salvation.

I'm not saying that we all shouldn't move in the spiritual direction that compels us, but I am saying that we need to understand where these religious psychodramas start and end.

Where I'm coming from it is essential to allow every and anyone to enjoy their paradigm, but being somewhat of an anti-theist I will not stand by and listen to proselytizing with out some kind of retort.


** by the way, great info on Jungian archetypal philosophy . . . thanks.