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#150987 by Jahva
Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:10 pm
This is where "ONLINE COLLABORATION " may become the new priesthood. I'm seriously thinking about doing my entire CD project with players from all over the world.. God knows I ain't having any luck with meeting anyone in my own damn town... So I'm actually drafting up some ideas /requirements to pull it off.

Maybe Bandmix should add another forum called On-line Collaboration.
Then you just post what you're looking for and your software requirements and see what schticks!

#151063 by MikeTalbot
Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:07 pm
Jahva

A friend of mine has done that very thing. He is a rather average level keyboard player but has creativity and drive out the wazoo. Wrote some music based around Kipling's IF and gradually assembled the exactly right players from all over the country.

Heard a first track (mastered) last week. It sounds pretty darn good.

Wouldn't work for me - I want to smell the other guy's bad breath when I'm playing with him but the product was certainly nice.

Talbot

#151079 by PaperDog
Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:52 pm
MikeTalbot wrote:Jahva

A friend of mine has done that very thing. He is a rather average level keyboard player but has creativity and drive out the wazoo. Wrote some music based around Kipling's IF and gradually assembled the exactly right players from all over the country.

Heard a first track (mastered) last week. It sounds pretty darn good.

Wouldn't work for me - I want to smell the other guy's bad breath when I'm playing with him but the product was certainly nice.

Talbot


LOL!
memo to self: Stock up on mentos for gigs in close quarters

#151080 by PaperDog
Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:23 am
Jahva wrote:This is where "ONLINE COLLABORATION " may become the new priesthood. I'm seriously thinking about doing my entire CD project with players from all over the world.. God knows I ain't having any luck with meeting anyone in my own damn town... So I'm actually drafting up some ideas /requirements to pull it off.

Maybe Bandmix should add another forum called On-line Collaboration.
Then you just post what you're looking for and your software requirements and see what schticks!


I'd go for that....

To Pull this off, it would take the cooperation and willingness of each member's prescribed home town professional studio(s) to support industry standard file formats, and a system/ chain of 'file custody'. (I.e secure-sites online, etc).

1) Studios would have to be willing to base fees on Per-song basis, as opposed to billable hours.

Case scenario:

1) The project lead (Aka the primary songwriter or partners alike) writes a song and runs it to a prescribed studio, arranges the contract fee (per song basis) for lead's contribution to the song. He/she pays whatever fee. Note its the blueprint, rough draft, scratch track , what ever you want to call it. The important thing is that the production quality is not the focus at this stage. rather, its to give the other musicians a starting point for the song idea.

2) The lead submits the song idea (upload ) to a venue like Bandmix. Includes instructions. (See my current profile for example) Bassists, Drummers, Leads, vocalists Whom ever the pre-arranged collaboration agreement includes... all pick up the song and use it to practice their contribution. Its important that a deadline be set to achieve song familiarity by all members.

3) Then, the drummer takes the work to the studio, and lays down production quality track.. Uploads the track, so members can continue the practice. The bass follows,lays down his/her track. The lead follows ...and so on..until everyone has their parts in.

4) Then a review of core product by all members, followed by emails, with suggestions for augmented, enhanced tracks,etc.

Then the final product mix and master is the responsibility of the project lead

Then if were really cool, we have been saving money for tickets to meet at a location and throw a release party.

#151081 by gbheil
Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:37 am
:shock:
It is hard enough to get it done in studio with all the members sitting right there.

I just don't see how this could even work without someone sitting in the drivers seat.

Great idea ... but some up front contractual work to establish whom will be making the final decisions would be necessary.
Provided of course that the end result has a financial, not just artistic purpose.

#151094 by PaperDog
Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:59 am
sanshouheil wrote::shock:
It is hard enough to get it done in studio with all the members sitting right there.

I just don't see how this could even work without someone sitting in the drivers seat.

Great idea ... but some up front contractual work to establish whom will be making the final decisions would be necessary.
Provided of course that the end result has a financial, not just artistic purpose.


Yeah, that part never changes... (Same in life as in virtual...gotta figure out monetary vs Artistic.

ARTISTIC (Another way of saying 'pay us if it sells') : TERMS:
Everyone pays their own studio accordingly. Contribution to the master CD is the work produced. Royalty Compensation is based on the work produced and success of CD distribution. In this scenario its hard to collect fees to pay costs , so the project lead assumes/fronts Final Mix and Master costs (and is compensated later, accordingly).

WORK FOR HIRE:
Project Lead pays the cost of everything, including the musicians for their time and talent. In this scenario, fees per song (not hourly). Work For hire (law) means that the funding agent typically owns the rights to all work submissions, by default.)
Royalty Compensation is based on Successful distribution and sale of CD..and must be agreed upon in advance, in writing. Big agents probably advance money before production...and payments are usually final except where a contingency arises. Note: I ainna no beeeig agent mahn!

#152362 by Greg Bullock
Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:26 pm
Online Collaboration is not rocket science, and is not complicated. I do it all the time ...

I find someone to collaborate with.

If they have a home studio capable of recording WAV files at the same bit -rate and resolution I use, they do ... if not, they can go to any studio, use the same format/bit-rate/resolution as I (or you) use, record their tracks, and send them via Send Space, You Send It, or others.

Typically, on first go round, I'll have them send me an MP3 of their parts mixed with the tracks I sent them to work with ... If I like it, I ask for the files, if not, I talk to them about what I do or do not like about what they did. When they have tracks to my liking, they send me the files.

It's pretty simple really ...

Not everyone has the capabilities of a good home studio, or the funds to go into a professional studio ... find someone else with a home studio if you can. Or, use the free versions of Cubase or Pro-Tools that are out there on your home computer. Any system that you can record files compatible with your collaborator will work.

If you want to get your music out there, and you have a hard time finding people locally to work with, you'll find a way.

#152513 by Jahva
Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:06 am
UmbraMusic wrote:Online Collaboration is not rocket science, and is not complicated. I do it all the time ...
.

Umbra,
"Stop the time" is really good... was that a collaboration?

#152516 by PaperDog
Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:01 am
UmbraMusic wrote:Online Collaboration is not rocket science, and is not complicated. I do it all the time ...

I find someone to collaborate with.

If they have a home studio capable of recording WAV files at the same bit -rate and resolution I use, they do ... if not, they can go to any studio, use the same format/bit-rate/resolution as I (or you) use, record their tracks, and send them via Send Space, You Send It, or others.

Typically, on first go round, I'll have them send me an MP3 of their parts mixed with the tracks I sent them to work with ... If I like it, I ask for the files, if not, I talk to them about what I do or do not like about what they did. When they have tracks to my liking, they send me the files.

It's pretty simple really ...

Not everyone has the capabilities of a good home studio, or the funds to go into a professional studio ... find someone else with a home studio if you can. Or, use the free versions of Cubase or Pro-Tools that are out there on your home computer. Any system that you can record files compatible with your collaborator will work.

If you want to get your music out there, and you have a hard time finding people locally to work with, you'll find a way.


I hear ya...

But in my case, I really don't care at all to be my own engineer. Truthfully, I just don't have the patience for it...
I once owned A Fostex 4 track , had equalizers, Effects boards, pedals the works... and I realized that 90 percent of my musical efforts went into trying to understand how to record properly, trying to figure out the right levels, mixing , mastering, etc... good levels, etc...
I couldn't stand it.. I would rather pay somebody for their expertise, so I can focus on my songs... If push came to shove I can slap down a track, ok...just really would rather have a real engineer handle it.

Having said that, my challenge with Online collab would be two fold: (Simple issues really) 1) Find the musicians willing to follow through, and 2) Finding the common format that could be shared between studios. (I.e 4 musicians, = 4 studios if no one presumes to engineer their own tracks)

#152815 by Greg Bullock
Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:00 am
Jahva wrote:
UmbraMusic wrote:Online Collaboration is not rocket science, and is not complicated. I do it all the time ...
.

Umbra,
"Stop the time" is really good... was that a collaboration?


I wrote Stop The Time. I used collaborators to add elements to songs I'm writing/recording.

The violinist recorded his tracks at his studio, and sent them to me via an upload service. I passed the violin tracks, along with my drum/percussion, bass, keyboard and the vocal tracks (hired vocalist) recorded at my studio, to the engineer that mixed the song ... via an upload service.

The musician/engineer I worked with added guitar tracks, played the piano part and mixed the song in his studio ... returned the masters via an upload service.

I worked that way with most of the songs on my profile ... not all.

#152821 by Jahva
Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:13 pm
I wrote Stop The Time. I used collaborators to add elements to songs I'm writing/recording.

The violinist recorded his tracks at his studio, and sent them to me via an upload service. I passed the violin tracks, along with my drum/percussion, bass, keyboard and the vocal tracks (hired vocalist) recorded at my studio, to the engineer that mixed the song ... via an upload service.

The musician/engineer I worked with added guitar tracks, played the piano part and mixed the song in his studio ... returned the masters via an upload service.

I worked that way with most of the songs on my profile ... not all.[/quote]

Are all of the players using the same software, like Pro-Tools? Does the software matter or just the file type?
Are you using Drop Box to get the files transfered to the other players?

#152825 by Greg Bullock
Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:16 pm
Jahva wrote:I wrote Stop The Time. I used collaborators to add elements to songs I'm writing/recording.

The violinist recorded his tracks at his studio, and sent them to me via an upload service. I passed the violin tracks, along with my drum/percussion, bass, keyboard and the vocal tracks (hired vocalist) recorded at my studio, to the engineer that mixed the song ... via an upload service.

The musician/engineer I worked with added guitar tracks, played the piano part and mixed the song in his studio ... returned the masters via an upload service.

I worked that way with most of the songs on my profile ... not all.


Are all of the players using the same software, like Pro-Tools? Does the software matter or just the file type?
Are you using Drop Box to get the files transfered to the other players?[/quote]

The software does not matter. I use Cubase 6, they use various ProTools versions. As long as you can export and import the file types into and out of your system, you should have no problem ... I record WAV files at 24 bit, 44 Khz. My collaborators record using the same. When we share files, as long as they have been consolidated properly, and all start at "0", based on the stems I sent them to use as the tracks to record "to", all works fine.

I'll typically send them stems containing what they want to hear for recording respective parts. The violinist wanted a drums track, a vocals track, and my synth string arrangements on a third track. He then mixed them as he wanted ... after he got the idea of the string arrangement and found his parts, he recorded without hearing the string parts.

The guitarist wanted everything, so I sent him a stereo stem of everything but the "ear candy".

#152826 by Jahva
Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:42 pm
Umbra,
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. 8)
So what methods have you used to find the players?

#152883 by Greg Bullock
Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:53 am
Jahva wrote:Umbra,
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. 8)
So what methods have you used to find the players?


The person I work with most (guitars/piano/engineering) has been a friend for over 20 years ... the violinist I've known for 5+ years. The singers were both "hired guns", and I searched through CraigsList. To find two vocalists, I went through hundreds of "vocalist" adds, over many months.

Finding a singer has been most challenging. Everything else I have covered. Keyboards, Bass and Drum/Percussions by myself. Guitars (and piano), and violins are handled by people I've known for years.

I do have a singer currently, who is doing some sessions for me in a few weeks ... our collaboration looks promising (fingers crossed).

#152885 by MikeTalbot
Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:07 am
umbra, jahva

I appreciate your comments on this thread. I bought some new equipment recently to improve my ability to record and manged to screw it all up so all this information is helpful as I put humpty back together again.

Good stuff umbra - fidelity is great.

Talbot

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