General Music Chat

Depends on the band and genre. The Farleys have never used a click track, but I have used one on some of the Rui stuff. It's a must when you want to use MIDI, etc.

Heres a q: If the drum track is pristine time, and a guitarist cant keep in line...then would a click track be any use?

If the drummer is truly "in pristine time", he won't mind playing to a click. He'll probably be the musician most used to practising with one. I don't use the click if we're recording as a band or performing live.....but I do follow the drummer who is playing to the click.

The click gives everyone a standard to be precisely correct on beats/measures. Musicians can get off the click, if that's their style but as a producer, I wouldn't think of recording without one unless the band was just simply unable to follow it. There are lots of bands who can flow together but couldn't keep it within a 4/4 time signature to save their collective lives.

A producer is only trying to catch the passion in that case, but it doesn't mean that bands who play to a click can't do so with just as much passion.

"Betty Davis Eyes" is an example of a #1 hit that wasn't on the click...but there aren't many more.

Yes always use a click track. If you are serious about recording that is.A click is not "useful". It is essential if your goal is a refined professional recording. Maybe not in Jazz or blues so much, but any rock or pop track. Every drummer should practice to a click regardless as it will improve internal meter. Artists who play to a click while recording and get a robot feel or mechanical vibe get that vibe because they are NOT playing with feeling not because they ARE playing to a click. If the click has anything to do with it than it's because the performer is not comfortable playing to it. If you practice with one all the time, come recording it will just be a natural guideline you don't think about in the back of your mind. Every song you record should have a determined Bpm. A click keeps time but also sets the tone for the energy of the song. USE IT!!!

Unless I'm working solo, with a single take, I always use a click track.

One of the things that separates a great performance from a sterile performance is that human imprecision. Home work assignment, go back and listen to your favorite tracks, and tell me how many are actually perfect.

Then dump them on your computer and see how far the timing is off. Don't get excited, sometimes we are talking about micro beats. BUT that can be enough to make it sound really good.

Timing should always be developed around the ability to maintain within one or 2 BPM, unless the music calls for accelerando or de accelerando. Conductors take notice, us live guys do this without a baton.

Fortunately this can all become a learned trait, with the use of a metronome.

Nothing I love more in music than a drummer that understands this because it opens the door to solos that are punctuated by drummer greatness.

Well my best answer is... it depends. I have recorded both ways and the music style and quality of players matters a lot. I would probably never use a click track on the blues. It demands a little ebb and flow to the tempo as long as there is not too much drift. Led Zeppelin were pretty famous for ebb and flow in their recordings and it was part of their groove.

On a more technical piece like Satriani, Dream Theater, or Al Dimeola, I think a basic click track is required. The goal is technical precision here instead of feel and groove. No room for variation.

I have thrown out tracks that we invested a lot of time and effort in, only to get into mixdown and realize the tempo drift is unacceptable. My fault for not checking tempo carefully during the basic tracks. I have also thrown out tracks that were completely sterilized by strict adherence to the mighty click. We could never find the groove.

Of the tracks currently up on our site, none were recorded with a click and you can hear some ebb and flow. They were recorded quickly as live demos in our rehearsal studio with only vocal and a few solo or percussion overdubs. These tracks were intended to sound as live as possible and not to represent precise, polished studio recordings. So far they have served their purpose well.

So yes, click tracks can be useful but it depends on the music and the players.

Yes it depends on the calibre of the players. As a drummer I've practiced with a click in my phones while behind the kit, so I've embraced it. I've also done the realtime tracks in the studio where as the drummer I was isolated, and we did scratch vocals. it turned out well. I've worked on my meter very hard so I am able to keep a band together as the timekeeper. But if you are doing studio sessions where you'll be doing editing, arrangement moves etc, playing to a click really helps. Most of the time if a person has a hard time playing to a click it's more about not setting up the monitors properly than them not being able to keep good time. Most people can keep good time and stay with a click if they can hear everything well. So it's important to set the monitoring up right. If a group is not going to use a click they should rehearse the heck out of the songs before they go into the studio, and be so tight that it doesn't usually require visual cues. Of course if there are ritards etc then one of the band members will need to visually conduct these slowdowns so everyone can stay together. Using a click doesn't have to mean sterile sounding tracks.

Well my best answer is... it depends. I have recorded both ways and the music style and quality of players matters a lot. I would probably never use a click track on the blues. It demands a little ebb and flow to the tempo as long as there is not too much drift. Led Zeppelin were pretty famous for ebb and flow in their recordings and it was part of their groove.

On a more technical piece like Satriani, Dream Theater, or Al Dimeola, I think a basic click track is required. The goal is technical precision here instead of feel and groove. No room for variation.

I have thrown out tracks that we invested a lot of time and effort in, only to get into mixdown and realize the tempo drift is unacceptable. My fault for not checking tempo carefully during the basic tracks. I have also thrown out tracks that were completely sterilized by strict adherence to the mighty click. We could never find the groove.

Of the tracks currently up on our site, none were recorded with a click and you can hear some ebb and flow. They were recorded quickly as live demos in our rehearsal studio with only vocal and a few solo or percussion overdubs. These tracks were intended to sound as live as possible and not to represent precise, polished studio recordings. So far they have served their purpose well.

So yes, click tracks can be useful but it depends on the music and the players.

Yes it depends on the calibre of the players. As a drummer I've practiced with a click in my phones while behind the kit, so I've embraced it. I've also done the realtime tracks in the studio where as the drummer I was isolated, and we did scratch vocals. it turned out well. I've worked on my meter very hard so I am able to keep a band together as the timekeeper. But if you are doing studio sessions where you'll be doing editing, arrangement moves etc, playing to a click really helps. Most of the time if a person has a hard time playing to a click it's more about not setting up the monitors properly than them not being able to keep good time. Most people can keep good time and stay with a click if they can hear everything well. So it's important to set the monitoring up right. If a group is not going to use a click they should rehearse the heck out of the songs before they go into the studio, and be so tight that it doesn't usually require visual cues. Of course if there are ritards etc then one of the band members will need to visually conduct these slowdowns so everyone can stay together. Using a click doesn't have to mean sterile sounding tracks.

I Have discovered myself, that I start off say at 86 bpm and without the click or some support meter... I wind up ending the song at 120 BPm... I call it "creeping up". So I need click.

Check the tunes on my profile. Now guess which ones we used a click track...

Check the tunes on my profile. Now guess which ones we used a click track...

The one on my profile used a click. I don't think it sounds sterile, but maybe others will.

If you have a good drummer you don't need a click. But he should be in on it from the beginning. If you do multi-track the drummer should do the first track. Or at least be in on the realtime.

Check the tunes on my profile. Now guess which ones we used a click track...

Bob I don't think you used a click on any of them. Great timing and feel so close it's impossible to tell. Great tracks!!!!!!!

Fred Jam, Great tune, great recording. Thanks for sharing. Perfect example where a click helps to put it all together.

Pretty tight Bob. Good blues... I dig ya! Thanks for the feedback peepsl

Check the tunes on my profile. Now guess which ones we used a click track...

Bob I don't think you used a click on any of them. Great timing and feel so close it's impossible to tell. Great tracks!!!!!!!

Fred Jam, Great tune, great recording. Thanks for sharing. Perfect example where a click helps to put it all together.

Correct. NO clicktracks. Here's how I record: work the tunes up tight, I mean tight with NO drugs or alcohol. STONE COLD SOBER. I've been playing with the same drummer for 15 years. At the recording studio we play the tunes LIVE with all the instruments isolated, each one has its own track, almost no sound bleeding through to the other tracks. Whoever is singing is doing it for timing only, a scratch vocal track. Everybody has headphones so we can hear everything. We usually run through each tune a few times, maybe three at most. Then each of us is handed a CD. We all go home and listen to it. Most of the solos are usually good enough that they don't have to be re-done. Minor glitches can be corrected by the producer/engineer. Additional solos are added in where we intentionaly leave gaps. Then the vocals are added last. Then we go back and listen to it again. Meanwhile the engineer listens also. We take notes. The exact places where errors/extraneous noises occur are noted. Go back to the studio and do a final mix. We recorded seven tunes in 13 hours,includes all mixing time. One of the tunes was discarded. For about $650 we got a CD worthy demo, less than $170 per person. It can be done, no clicktrack needed. You need dedicated SOBER people and an excellent sound engineer.

Recording to a click track makes it easier for the engineer, producer or whomever to edit the song. Whether it's tightening up a snare drum that's a few milliseconds off....or moving and rearranging whole arrangements of songs. Cut & Paste.

I've no problem with it and actually prefer it - either way - I'm ok with it.

Bob, you know I love your playing. The only thing is you just raised the bar.
Entry level players won't have a clue about the skills you have.
I think there would be shock and awe from a large crowd if they worked as hard at learning timing as hard as they work on scales.

Bob, you are one great musician, and if we sat down and just played three blind mice, it would smoke. Great timing opens the doors to great solos.
I get frustrated when I drag a drummer and a bass player so far off beat because I am using tempo and timing and split 64 notes to build some excitement.

I don't have any problem with click tracks. Hey whatever works. But I really do appreciate great musicians like you Bob.

Recording to a click track makes it easier for the engineer, producer or whomever to edit the song. Whether it's tightening up a snare drum that's a few milliseconds off....or moving and rearranging whole arrangements of songs. Cut & Paste.

I've no problem with it and actually prefer it - either way - I'm ok with it.

The people and dedication are the key. It was just a social thing with most of the bands I've worked with over the years. Just wanted to get buzzed, and didn't seem to have the attention span or dedication to work as a team. I was with one band back in the mid 80s that did just what you describe here. No clicks used (I was the drummer), and we only had to isolate the drummer, as the rest of the band were using direct boxes, so they were in one room and I was in the drum booth. Practiced it until we were totally sick of the songs, and could play them in our sleep. You are right that this works.

But since I've only been able to find people serious enough for me via the net, I've actually stopped working with local bands for the most part. Just got fed up with it. There are a lot of insincere people on the net too but it opened it up to the whole world, so I've been able to find some to work with. Doing the online collab thing, it's pretty much a given that a click will be used. If I were in the same room with the band as you are I'd no doubt be doing it the way you describe here Bob. As you say it works well.