General Music Chat

I remember watching Wyatt Earp with Kevin Costner (the real story, not that bullshit Tombstone that everyone likes), and Doc Holiday is talking to Wyatt about his then girlfriend and her Laudunam problem. "For some people this world just ain't never gonna be right."

I always remembered that line when I saw Amy. She was a well known singer before she became the train wreck that you see. Her jazz album was great IMO, but it never made it over here. America only embraced her after she recorded Back to Black and was well into her drug addiction, public erratic behavior, all tatted up. Everyone was going on about what a "tortured artist" she was, already turning her into a martyr back then. It's like America doesn't give a f**k anymore unless you're doing something to bring attention to yourself in the press, then everybody wants to jabber about how talented you are.

I've known a lot of addicts, but some of them I feel, and I felt her. She was a artist and she let herself go and the press ate it up.

I understand addiction and how some people just can't control themselves. Everybody's an addict in some way, either TV, coupon clipping, religion, the Internet. I think the Internet is the worst addiction of them all. It may not cost one their lives, but it costs marriages, friendships, jobs, self-respect.

It's easy to sit up puffed up in a bit of self-righteousness and look down at drug addicts, but I really feel sorry for them. I understand what drove them to it. Their are times when I can't stand living here sometimes. Reality is a joke.

RIP, Amy.

Chaeya

Like a lot of the other artists mentioned, Amy walked that fine line between genius and madness. On Saturday madness won.

I think the Internet is the worst addiction of them all

Either that or TV, and I have no doubt TV is definitely the worst thing to happen to humanity since Attillah the Hun...

Anywho...I don't know a thing about her, never even heard the name till I read this, but let's look at it from a slightly different angle.

Clapton - Heroin addict several times, finally got cleaned up and made it out. Still a great player, still performing as far as I know and over 60 years old.

Steven Tyler - He and Joe Perry of Aerosmith were known as the "toxic twins" until the rest of the band dragged him, kicking and screaming, into rehab. Looks a bit rough now, but still a great singer, and I haven't seen him on the stupid talent TV show he's involved in, but I understand doing a fairly good job at that too.

Pete Townsend - Same story, heroin addict for years, finally cleaned up and judging by the Who at the Superbowl a couple of years ago, still able to rock with the best of them.

Point is, it can be done. The ones I mentioned are not the only ones to see the bottom of the barrel and come back up fighting, then show the world they can do it clean too.

But it takes guts and determination. If you don't have the internal fortitude, it ain't gonna happen. Maybe she didn't have that.

A lot of good comments here, but the best point made was that she let it happen to herself. Nobody made her go off the deep end, nobody twisted her arm, although nobody around her took a firm stance and tried to get her back on track long ago.

But...Nobody could either, I've known for a long time you can't help a person until they want your help. I've known people with drug and alcohol habits, sad as it is I can't do a thing until they admit they have a problem and want help with it. Usually that doesn't happen, you hear nothing but excuses..."well, my dad was an alcoholic, I can't help it." BULLSHIT...

Sorry if I sound a bit cold, but that's the way it is. SHE made her choices, same as I did. I quit alcohol and drugs except for those funny looking cigarettes many years ago, still don't touch any of it after over 30 years. I drank 2-3 six packs a day (at 120 pounds that's a lot of beer), then switched to whisky and tequila, full bottle every night for several years, and was doing speed, downers, acid, mushrooms, coke, everything but heroin and morphine at the same time I drank all that booze. Stayed wasted for years, nobody ever saw me play straight till I was almost 30 because I never was.

After I quit I found out I could still play, and just as well, and I don't regret quitting for a minute. If I can do it anyone else can, anybody who thinks otherwise is a fool. I have to give her credit, she went into rehab and tried to clean up, maybe it would have been different if she had been able to take some time and get her act together before doing a big show. That had to suck, being booed off the stage right after coming back from hell...but like I said, it takes guts and determination to come back and keep fighting. Maybe it just wasn't there...

And maybe I'm rambling too much...I'll get off my soapbox.

paleopete

Yep...

I won't mention my own pathetic life but Dave Mustaine is a great example. When he finally got off the smack he canceled all his feuds (many), forgave all his enemies.

An interviewer asked him why - "I really don't remember what I was mad about and it seemed kinda silly..."

Doctor John was addicted for 30 years!

This kid just ran out of luck. Not everybody gets 30 years.

Talbot

Jahva,
really enjoyed your music. I can not contact you, my, premier, ultra fancy membership has expired and I'm broke. But keep on writing!!!! And you are wrong, your voice is just fine.
- The original idiot

It's a shame to see anyone at 27 drop dead from drug abuse, plenty of my friends never even made it that far and I've witnessed how drugs & alcohol stake their claim in the music biz.

Can some of you point me towards a few of Whinehouse's good stuff, so far I haven't found anything I consider 'genius' or even outstanding.

It's a shame to see anyone at 27 drop dead from drug abuse, plenty of my friends never even made it that far and I've witnessed how drugs & alcohol stake their claim in the music biz.

Can some of you point me towards a few of Whinehouse's good stuff, so far I haven't found anything I consider 'genius' or even outstanding.

Listen to her early stuff... Frank and Back to Black before she fell off a drug cliff in 2006. I thought she was brilliant then and really drew audiences in, much like Billie Holliday. Recognize too that you may never "get" Amy W. She is definitely not for everybody. Millions never "got" Janis, Kurt Cobain, or Jim Morrison either. Musical taste is always subjective. One mans trash is another's treasure.

Millions never "got" Janis, Kurt Cobain, or Jim Morrison either.

Until they died. They didn't start noticing Amy until she started rolling downhill - then all of a sudden you're an "artist." When you die, you become a legend.

Chaeya

Millions never "got" Janis, Kurt Cobain, or Jim Morrison either.

Until they died. They didn't start noticing Amy until she started rolling downhill - then all of a sudden you're an "artist." When you die, you become a legend.

Chaeya

I believe both the doors & Nirvana were pretty successful when the two leadmen died.

Seems like the words 'genius' & 'brilliant' get tossed around easily these days, I know it is subjective but I like to reserve those words for people like the J.S. Bach's, John McLaughlin's, and John Coltrane's.

Few contemporary / pop artists would I personally refer to as a genius (perhaps Lennon/McCartney).

Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin, Mama Cass - all were hugely successful when they passed. But their deaths magnified their legends, and increased their estates (Hendrix is worth well over $100 million now).

Millions never "got" Janis, Kurt Cobain, or Jim Morrison either.

Until they died. They didn't start noticing Amy until she started rolling downhill - then all of a sudden you're an "artist." When you die, you become a legend.

Chaeya

I believe both the doors & Nirvana were pretty successful when the two leadmen died.

Seems like the words 'genius' & 'brilliant' get tossed around easily these days, I know it is subjective but I like to reserve those words for people like the J.S. Bach's, John McLaughlin's, and John Coltrane's.

Few contemporary / pop artists would I personally refer to as a genius (perhaps Lennon/McCartney).

Yes, never forget that beauty is in the eye (ear) of the beholder. If you don't get Amy W.... no sweat. We all like different stuff. Defining genius and brilliance are equally subjective and come in many different sizes, shapes and colors. To hold others to our own subjective views is rather pointless. With 5 Grammy awards she certainly had something... call it what you wish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Winehouse

I agree that McLaughlin and Coltrane are brilliant but I can't listen to either of them. Their music just annoys me. I need more theme and melody. Now JS Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Ravel, Verdi... I can get all over that.

Vincent Van Gogh was an equally tortured soul who never really sold any of his paintings during his lifetime. Nobody wanted em. He was the poster child artistic loser. Now, long after his death they are some of the most sought after paintings in the world. Go figure. There is no accounting for taste.

Genius: something or someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight.

In the philosophy of Arthur Schopenhauer, a genius is someone in whom intellect predominates over "will" much more than within the average person.

“ Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.” —Arthur Schopenhauer

In the philosophy of Immanuel Kant, genius is the ability to independently arrive at and understand concepts that would normally have to be taught by another person.


So, would everybody say that Miss Winehouse fits these definitions?

For me shes dead, Im sorry for the family that was left behind, they are the ones in the most hurt from this right now.

It's sad that we all saw this coming but there was nothing we could do...

It's sad that we all saw this coming but there was nothing we could do...

Hmmm . . . not to sound cold or anything, but really, did you personally know her? Hundreds of people died that day, are you filled with sorrow for all of them too?

I didn't know her, don't care for her music, have no respect for her demise, and do not consider any of her recordings to be missed.

I've known (as I'm sure many others here have) far greater artists that never were as successful that are dead.