General Music Chat

No actually Crunch you got it all wrong. Raise the taxes on the wealthy and you only raise the taxes on the non wealthy.
First exxon/ mobil is reporting record profits. Based on a devalued dollar oil ,food and all the convenient essentials seem to be left out of the consumer price index.
However, NO ONE IN WASHINGTON is talking about the record TAX revenues being brought in by these PROFITS. Not one Republican nor Democrat.
Now here is why every American should be really pissed.
Both parties keep saying the poor don't pay taxes,,, BS.
Those record taxes are payed by us, the average plumber Joe. In the form of an extra $35 a week,gas, to get to work, an extra $100 plus a month in our electric bills, an extra $ 2000 to heat our homes, rising food prices from these added costs, and the list goes on.( These are very conservative)
How long are we going to keep this lie alive?
Washington has become a den of thieves with no actual interest in the welfare of the American people. George want's his name back.

Obama as president has not impressed me with the exception of his latest move to lower the budget by increasing taxes on the very wealthy. Republicans say that will stunt employment growth. Hewwey! Oil companies pay less on each dollar earned than the dollars we get as hourly employees. Don't get your feathers ruffled Republicans, I am an independent voter so that I can vote on each issue or candidate as I feel is the best for my state/country. I don't understand voting across the board one way or the other. Independent candidates per say, have not been that impressive, and they don't get campaign contributions as dems or reps. I just don't think the multi-billion dollar corp.s should shrug their financial responsibility off on the blue collars. Either way, the feuding in Washington is only a stall tactic, with the winner of the debate as most likely to succeed in the next presidential election, with little time for cause and effect to raise it's head. No matter the president, we have to pray he/she get the knowledge and stature we need to (as a nation), keep our credibility and not go bankrupt.

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The saddest thing about this whole mess is that it proves too many Americans are easy to manipulate with envy/greed.

When companies are taxed, they pass that on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. They certainly don't just absorb it and lose profit. They may stop hiring to cut their costs which means fewer jobs and less income tax collected for the government.

Tax cuts has historically helped our economic climate while tax increases chill it, but that isn't how they sell this idea. No, they make you feel good about giving up more money to the government by making you think that the rich got socked even worse. It's a lie, and they are playing you like a tool if you believe it.


1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care
of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to
get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Sounds like the fall of Rome ...

Nice way to put it yod. Simple straightforward, truthful, but unfortunately way beyond simple comprehension.

Hey you want to join my party? I could use a good press secretary.
I may be forced to run against Obama if this is the best the tea party has.

T

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care
of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to
get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Damn YOD! The way you said this is absolutely brilliant and spot on!

No actually Crunch you got it all wrong. Raise the taxes on the wealthy and you only raise the taxes on the non wealthy.
First exxon/ mobil is reporting record profits. Based on a devalued dollar oil ,food and all the convenient essentials seem to be left out of the consumer price index.
However, NO ONE IN WASHINGTON is talking about the record TAX revenues being brought in by these PROFITS. Not one Republican nor Democrat.
Now here is why every American should be really pissed.
Both parties keep saying the poor don't pay taxes,,, BS.
Those record taxes are payed by us, the average plumber Joe. In the form of an extra $35 a week,gas, to get to work, an extra $100 plus a month in our electric bills, an extra $ 2000 to heat our homes, rising food prices from these added costs, and the list goes on.( These are very conservative)
How long are we going to keep this lie alive?
Washington has become a den of thieves with no actual interest in the welfare of the American people. George want's his name back.

What part did I get wrong? What about reality? The reality that you pay more for every item you buy because it costs more to get it to the outlet that you have purchased it from. Trucks have moved just about everything at one point of it's being. Diesel fuel is a low grade fuel made from petroleum, same as gasoline. Why does it cost more per gallon than gas? Because the blue collar pays taxes the oil companies aren't. Truth is, there are more ways the little guy pays, as the big guy lobbys for ways to shirk. States give tax breaks for big business to come in for the employment benefits. If it weren't on the table do you think they would close up shop and go home? BILLIONS are to be made and we pay the taxes. Truth is, you helped me prove my point.

No actually Crunch you got it all wrong. Raise the taxes on the wealthy and you only raise the taxes on the non wealthy.
First exxon/ mobil is reporting record profits. Based on a devalued dollar oil ,food and all the convenient essentials seem to be left out of the consumer price index.
However, NO ONE IN WASHINGTON is talking about the record TAX revenues being brought in by these PROFITS. Not one Republican nor Democrat.
Now here is why every American should be really pissed.
Both parties keep saying the poor don't pay taxes,,, BS.
Those record taxes are payed by us, the average plumber Joe. In the form of an extra $35 a week,gas, to get to work, an extra $100 plus a month in our electric bills, an extra $ 2000 to heat our homes, rising food prices from these added costs, and the list goes on.( These are very conservative)
How long are we going to keep this lie alive?
Washington has become a den of thieves with no actual interest in the welfare of the American people. George want's his name back.

What part did I get wrong? What about reality? The reality that you pay more for every item you buy because it costs more to get it to the outlet that you have purchased it from. Trucks have moved just about everything at one point of it's being. Diesel fuel is a low grade fuel made from petroleum, same as gasoline. Why does it cost more per gallon than gas? Because the blue collar pays taxes the oil companies aren't. Truth is, there are more ways the little guy pays, as the big guy lobbys for ways to shirk. States give tax breaks for big business to come in for the employment benefits. If it weren't on the table do you think they would close up shop and go home? BILLIONS are to be made and we pay the taxes. Truth is, you helped me prove my point.

You are both correct in your own ways;
Paraphrasing Yod's sayings, you cant lead the poor into wealth by leading the rich into poverty (and that is what taxes (AKA fiscal policy) can do in America, if left unchecked.

I have a theory... I could be wrong, but...One assumption about Blue Collars workers (especially on the east coast and the upper Midwest) is the "guilt by association" with unions. The US govt wants to beat the crap out of unions, and they do so by attacking the blue collar workers at home (higher taxes) ... In retaliation, the Unions are coercing their Blue collar members to pay stringent dues (Higher fees, less benefits) to counter the cost of doing business in America. Neither the govt or the Unions actually take those extra revenues or savings toward the benefit of the Blue Collar workers. Yeah you'll have a job most of the time...but you will NEVER get rich, NEVER be in the position to innovate (As Non Union corps can) . Finally...Union wage demands always insist that unions make and sell 20 dollar products to people who can only earn 10.00 dollars. The higher the wage demand, the higher the tax revenue for the govt, which is why they don't fight unions that hard about it. (Strike violations/National security not withstanding)

I'm laughing every-time i hear Reps & Dems getting blamed for the economic strife in America. Congress persons of both parties are guilty as sin of wanton spending (to support their own constituencies) Guess who the biggest constituents on the table are? Private Sector! Guess who the ones "under the table are...Unions! Whoops maybe I got that backwards...no wait... They are both under the table! My point being... Americans at large need to stop being such greedy assed mother f**k -ers and start waking the the hell up. I'm not suggesting that we turn into a bunch of altruistic zombies... I'm saying...alittle self control, common sense and decency here! That's all.

The point you missed Crunch , is the fact that the little guy is paying the taxes that are just passed on down the line. The record profits are also generating record tax revenue. All payed by us. The Tax laws are so screwed up that GE was able to write off tax losses against overseas income.

The alternative is to watch all these American companies, JUST LEAVE.

I didn't see how the vote turned out on Incandescent light bulbs,,, passed in 2007,, all the new bulbs come from China.

Well, then, I guess there's no reason I should repeat myself, how truckers and their industry are paying a lopsided a mount on their daily operations to move what goes. A truck driver has a job. Owner ops invested into themselves to be business owners. With gross amounts of cash being raked in by the oil companies, why is it the trucking industry pay so much more to operate? I suppose you're right. Why have a job that pays unexcusably more in taxes? Maybe the taxes are there only because that is a job they can't send to China. Could your job be sent to China, or because it can't be, then would you take it graciously laying down. When it happens in your industry, should I look the other way and say "well, at least the rich are safe!"

Crunch, you have to get over this idea that the rich are the responsible culprits.
The wealthy in this country are not the individuals, but the corporations that are owned by the individual. Evil corporations are owned by individuals. This has to be clear. When Obama went after BP for their spill and was looking to confiscate their profits, he failed to realize how many municipal pension funds were counting on that dividend, to pay retired police, firefighters, teachers, etc. It is a very difficult system to understand and far more difficult to control. It is about the freedom human spirit.

At this point in time all I can say is that the economic policies we are following, are close to being absolutely treasonous to the the very tenants that built America. This is not the America, I grew up in.
The America I grew up in understood AMERICAN SPIRIT.

Though I will be one of the first to bemoan unjust business practices.
I must admit.
I've never been employed by the poor.