General Music Chat

Well I'm back and I CAN TAKE STICK unlike that nasty post by samsousiel. If you ask for it, then you need to take it and shake it off. This is not a kind business. It sucks. But only the strong survive. Now I type a lot of stuff, Fisherman Bob and Jimmy Danger probably know that. But this is a subject that warrants a closer look: my old lead singer, a gifted golden throat and DOMINATOR of the stage finally came clean about why he left such a promising band in 1996. I have never been in suck bands, ever. But they always break up! Now. I have been out of the club scene for decades, and I don't know what's hot and what isn't but one thing is clear: I write heavy rock songs with varied SUBJECT MATTER. I don't know of any band who is unknown when they form, and stis down to formulate a plan to pack any club on any given night by stating: "Right, we are gonna be this type of band and write songs that from the first riff, the first lyric will be geared towards THE CLUBS, not us. Sure, we'll do covers but our legacy will be permanetly recorded as a Southern Rock band or Rush or a Kings Of Leon. The latter put out FOUR CDs and got NOWWHERE for various reasons. But on their fifth release, with guitar effects added and better songs, they are now one of the top bands in the country. Do they sing about Whiskey, Cocaine and Chicks? No, they have semi-christian themes even if they are not Christian. And guess what, SCREW THE CLUBS. I mean, do any of you out there honestly think that building a large (100-200 fan base) is gonna happen because you're music is tailored to the nightclubs? Remember, whatever original material you write is forever, that will be your signature sound and like it or not, you can't change that because your following expects to hear the same style or genre even after you've signed with a record company and the local club scene is now just a memory. I don't believe it. There are a multitude of bands out there who are all very different from one another and because they stuck it out, played to empty houses as well as packed (I've seen this happen to many bands). Okay, so I'll start writing and doing covers that SELL DRINKS. Is this really the reality of the whole business? I don't no anyone but a handful of married freinds who have kids and don't go out anymore. I'm a loner. My basist is the same. Our drummer is 19 so he has to vacate the premises right after we tear down. So its just me and the bassist who stick around after the gig. BTW, my band has only played TWO LEGIMATE gigs since we formed last year. It takes time to work up enough material, covers and originals, to be ready to hit the clubs. Some nights they want all originals, some covers, some both. Below is my ex-lead singers "coming clean". Read it but remember, he wanted to make a living off music RIGHT AWAY. He gave up to find ways to do it playing to families and old folks and working in his home studio, of which he has made a living off. But.......

Craig, It was a great band with great guys I know that. when you really get down to the heart of the matter it wasn't patty, it wasn't even the pocket, it was that no one was coming out to see us. we had a small following compared to other bands. The stupid Refreshments got a hit record during that time, and they were singing about drinking in Mexico, we were writing about people putting up golf courses in Hawaii. They just didn't get us. I like to think we were ahead of our time as far as songwriting goes. the pocket was and to this day is important to me, but that wasn't the reason I left the band. Unfortunaltely it was a lot of things. I needed to make money too, I wanted to fulfill my life long dream of having a studio, and Ron sold the house. Anyway, I'll talk to you soon
Thad

I don't know of any band who is unknown when they form, and stis down to formulate a plan to pack any club on any given night by stating: "Right, we are gonna be this type of band and write songs that from the first riff, the first lyric will be geared towards THE CLUBS, not us.
Thad

I can't help but think of how long Black Sabbath / Ozzy stayed intact until Ozzy finally made that move... One thing for sure... It seems that nobody bailed in that band until it was absolutely and unanimously clear there was a dead end. They came from a different gen, different work ethic, different culture.

In America, Its always about the business, it would seem. Worse yet, its hard to get 3-4 guys together to actually share the same vision, and maintain it until the bitter end.

It took Don Kirchner to be a raging asshole to keep the Monkees intact for a few seasons of television. (Michael Nesmith was and is such a prima- dona)

I was told recently that if musical partners don't get that bond during high school days, its most likely never gonna happen after that... Too much disparate Life-structure to fit cleanly into the map we hope to follow in the business.

Now, about that business and clubs. Its no secret that club owners and the patrons actually view musicians as the tools of amusement...and not much else. There is no glory in playing clubs, because they aren't about the music... They are about the "entertainment" And that's a big difference.

My strategy (if I were gigging) would probably be to write my songs as I normally would, keeping them honest in content... but also figure a way to set my stage on fire, if you get my meaning. Its not the music that you necessarily should change and adapt for clubs....Its the "act". Same songs as always, but on Tuesdays, its also Sonya and her Boa, On Wed's it the recreation of White Snake's Fireworks (with lessons learned), On Thursdays's its Bahama Mama'a Tiki dance interpretation of Iron man.... and so on...

Now that seems a bit extreme, but its just to illustrate that no requirement exists in any of that, to have you change your song and lyric.

Do what you do, just do your best. I never recorded a tune I wasn't happy with. I've written many i didn't like, but you bury those until something comes along that changes things. (then you rewrite)

If you like it, that's what matters.

Are you going to make it big? Prolly not, but you may have a great time and meet a lot of people. Life life and enjoy it.

Toxic, put your blinders on. Take it a day at a time. Do not look too far down the road because the wide, open spaces cause confusion and doubt.

Be prepared for anything. If the moronic crowd wants covers, try a little to appease them. Whatever they want, try to meet them halfway.

Try to be both a musician and an entertainer. And don't be afraid to ignore people, they like to get under your skin because they think they can. They only win if you let them. lol

Break a leg, if you were closer I'd come see you play for sure.

We should write because we have something to say...


Let a song be what it is, then put it in the inventory to pull out later if needed or appropriate. You can always do a re-write to fit a particular situation.

I kid you not when I say I will throw myself around the stage, get tangled up in cables, do a "fake" Hanging and learn how to fall (maybe a coach)without f**k up my back or anything else - to entertain as well as deliver core heavy rock. And I love to drink and do, uh, other stuff. I'm a fricking maniac but haven't played out enught to put it into practice. I get where you are coming from. I watched our you tube video and though we played good, I was a fricking bore to watch. That's not what club patrons want to see. They want nlood, I'll give it 'em.

I kid you not when I say I will throw myself around the stage, get tangled up in cables, do a "fake" Hanging and learn how to fall (maybe a coach)without f**k up my back or anything else - to entertain as well as deliver core heavy rock. And I love to drink and do, uh, other stuff. I'm a fricking maniac but haven't played out enught to put it into practice. I get where you are coming from. I watched our you tube video and though we played good, I was a fricking bore to watch. That's not what club patrons want to see. They want nlood, I'll give it 'em.

Here's a sample that that covers all the bases... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFl_QKkLxXc

Its nothing like metal, but same principle... Watch carefully, how the act keeps alive. Most important;y take note of how the players and the singer 'express' to the audience and not to themselves..yet they look like they themselves are having a blast. Also take note of how they introduced the song.. The audience knew then, what they were about to recieve. Its all quintessential "show biz" at its finest. Note how the singer works that room.

I kid you not when I say I will throw myself around the stage, get tangled up in cables, do a "fake" Hanging and learn how to fall (maybe a coach)without f**k up my back or anything else - to entertain as well as deliver core heavy rock. And I love to drink and do, uh, other stuff. I'm a fricking maniac but haven't played out enught to put it into practice. I get where you are coming from. I watched our you tube video and though we played good, I was a fricking bore to watch. That's not what club patrons want to see. They want nlood, I'll give it 'em.

I'll let you in on a secret, Toxic, this is the first time I've fronted my own band and sang my own songs. I've been on a stage a lot, singing backgrounds to someone else thing or coming forward to sing a song here and a song there, but I couldn't really be myself. It didn't help me to dress up to play with a bunch of guys dressed in jeans and t-shirts. But I practiced my ass off my whole life for this moment and sometimes you never know when that moment will come, you just want to be ready.

Chaeya

Hey Chaeya, Toxic here. I listened to your songs on reverbnation and I was blown away!! You have that rare female / male metamorphsis ability to sing in high registers yet throw in some "edge" on your voice. The Red RIder was very cool. What kills me is I believe your voice in my band would be elevate our music into a realm that requires a vocal like yours; it has conviction and passion, two critical components of a great vocal. I will say that I write in a far more calculated and slightly rigid way, in other words repeating themes throughout the song. I heard that in all your material but (sorry I gotta say this) there is a consistent set of measures that you approach with "hooks" but they seemed to change suddenly and the song kind of took on a life of its own, which can be a good thing if the song is done justice by doing what sounds like spontaneous changes in the arrangement, if that makes any sense. We are currently auditioning lead vocalists, desite my voice being decent, I feel a prisoner of the mic and my extravagant pedalboard. I wanna move around and be a guitarist to he wreckoned with. But we may possibly never find the right singer so I keep singing lead in practices just in case I'm forced to take the lead. One thing I've noticed about great frontmen lead singers is they move their heads a lot and use their eyes to scan to audience, drawing them in. I'm just not practiced enough, and two gigs played since we formed last year isn't going to make me the bomb, would you not agree? And BTW, you are one sexy women Chaeya! Please come to Phoenix, AZ and hook up with some cool cats. Is there even a chance?

I kid you not when I say I will throw myself around the stage, get tangled up in cables, do a "fake" Hanging and learn how to fall (maybe a coach)without f**k up my back or anything else - to entertain as well as deliver core heavy rock. And I love to drink and do, uh, other stuff. I'm a fricking maniac but haven't played out enught to put it into practice. I get where you are coming from. I watched our you tube video and though we played good, I was a fricking bore to watch. That's not what club patrons want to see. They want nlood, I'll give it 'em.

I'll let you in on a secret, Toxic, this is the first time I've fronted my own band and sang my own songs. I've been on a stage a lot, singing backgrounds to someone else thing or coming forward to sing a song here and a song there, but I couldn't really be myself. It didn't help me to dress up to play with a bunch of guys dressed in jeans and t-shirts. But I practiced my ass off my whole life for this moment and sometimes you never know when that moment will come, you just want to be ready.

Chaeya

Hey there baby doll, please do me a favor as I did you (that sounded wrong, do you?) and listen to my stuff at http://www.bandmix.com/toxicmetal11 I wrote, played all instruments and vocals and mixed to CD whats on the site. Just so you can hear how well I think your voice would fit our style.

I kid you not when I say I will throw myself around the stage, get tangled up in cables, do a "fake" Hanging and learn how to fall (maybe a coach)without f**k up my back or anything else - to entertain as well as deliver core heavy rock. And I love to drink and do, uh, other stuff. I'm a fricking maniac but haven't played out enught to put it into practice. I get where you are coming from. I watched our you tube video and though we played good, I was a fricking bore to watch. That's not what club patrons want to see. They want nlood, I'll give it 'em.

I'll let you in on a secret, Toxic, this is the first time I've fronted my own band and sang my own songs. I've been on a stage a lot, singing backgrounds to someone else thing or coming forward to sing a song here and a song there, but I couldn't really be myself. It didn't help me to dress up to play with a bunch of guys dressed in jeans and t-shirts. But I practiced my ass off my whole life for this moment and sometimes you never know when that moment will come, you just want to be ready.

Chaeya

We should write because we have something to say...

... And say something that people can relate to. Great songwriters are great storytellers. So who does it well? Van Halen, AC/DC, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, REM, The Beatles, The Clash, The Sex Pistols, Kurt Cobain, and many others. People are drawn in by a great story they can relate to.

As a musician and lead guitarist I am often drawn to the melody, hooks, or "Big Guitar" but I have to realize that I am in the 1% minority. The other 99% want to be drawn in by a great story they can relate to and don't give a tinkers damn about the "Big Guitar".

do me a favor as I did you (that sounded wrong, do you?) and listen to my stuff at http://www.bandmix.com/toxicmetal11 I wrote, played all instruments and vocals and mixed to CD whats on the site.

dude, that's some good music you're making. I'd suggest you prepare to be lead singer until someone comes along who has the same vision and passion as you.


I'm in Phoenix for a few days...you playing anywhere?

... And say something that people can relate to. Great songwriters are great storytellers. .

You could say almost anything and there are people who will relate. The important thing is to make it interesting. Can't be too cliche' and can't be said like the last guy said it.


But your point about storytelling is vital. People will waste an entire evening (or an entire life) watching TV waiting and hoping for a good story.

If you can give them that in music, you'll be ahead of 96% of the bands out there.


.

We should write because we have something to say...

... And say something that people can relate to. Great songwriters are great storytellers. So who does it well? Van Halen, AC/DC, David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, REM, The Beatles, The Clash, The Sex Pistols, Kurt Cobain, and many others. People are drawn in by a great story they can relate to.

That such a great point. I remember first hearing Springsteen. His voice was a short-coming to my ears but the stories on Born to Run kept me coming back. You could relate to it.

To answer the OP question quickly, I write music for myself first, my bandmates second and my fans third. Clubs don't even count.

Awww Tox, you're making me blush over here. I wish I could come to Phoenix, but I'm stuck here due to lack of funds.

You're music is very good, fatten up your guitar with more layers, and you can layer your voice. My favorite is No Redemption, I love the sound of the guitar. Just bring up your vocals a tad more. Your songs are great and they keep me listening. You just need the right production. I mean, I know our stuff could get beefed up with the right production, which we're constantly working on.

You should focus on being the lead singer. There's nothing wrong with your voice. Think of Hendrix. He didn't like his voice, but somehow it just worked with what he was doing, I couldn't think of anyone else doing Jimi's stuff. Work on getting your own style, something that makes your voice YOU, so when people hear it, they know it's you. That comes with confidence. For instance, I know I don't have the best voice. I can't sing all those winding soulful loopdy-loops that all the female vocalists like to spout off now, but people know that's me when they hear me. When I hit the stage, I came to kick ass, I know that and I do it my way.

I feel your frustration and I know most of it comes from the fact that you know your good. Being in that position makes one pretty much feel like a Who down in Whoville screaming "WE ARE HERE!"

Who knows what the future holds, perhaps we can hit a trip out to Phoenix in the near future.

Sorry guys, but Springsteen just didn't do it for me. As far as representing America, the working man and so on, I preferred John Cougar Mellencamp. Bruce's voice drove me crazy. I saw a tribute band my friend plays in and I swear, did all this dude's stuff sound the same or what? The fifth song in I just wanted it all to be over.

Chaeya