General Music Chat

WOW see what i mean, this whole thing was about,music,not the bible,not faith, not in what you have faith in,or not,and look at what has been posted! i was talking about music v lyrics and look where it went,This is band mix not religion mix

Rushing, Is not everything in this universe, somehow of and from its creator? That would include religion, religion about music, music about religion... and a can of sardines.

When you presented us with your can of Sardines, you tried to slip in a red herring and then sell it to us by citing a 10 pound bass. If this topic has gone south, it is entirely your fault.

My suggestion would be to refrain from judgmental phrases about God's meaning, if in fact, you merely intended to decipher intentional phrases behind Dark Metal meanings. The two subjects are not related, as you have pointed out. Therefore, please stop with the herrings.

But you are not off the hook...You hailed Satan...

Instead, try hailing a Cab... and ask the driver what he thinks about lukewarm coffee

I like that one!

Actually I am a Luciferian and not a Satanist . . . but that's besides the point.
The Point would be that, in my opinion, the Christian religion is not about these silly rules and regulations, not about Sin, it is not about guilt and persecution, not about salvation . . . all those things are what Man have attached to this Belief System.

The Word of The Christ is simply LOVE. That book you all embrace is a simple Love Letter . . . start reading it like that next time, it will open your heart up more than it is already.


Genesis 4:15
Tamen SENIOR said ut him , " secus ; si quisquam iuguolo Cain , is mos sino vengeance septem vicis super " Tunc SENIOR loco a vestigium in Cain ut nemo quisnam instituo him would iuguolo him.

Deus ventus totus liberi. Ut ut terminus , is mos vel servo maioribus sinners ex valde delictum ...which they themselves have succumbed to.

But you are not off the hook...You hailed Satan...

Instead, try hailing a Cab... and ask the driver what he thinks about lukewarm coffee

I like that one!

Actually I am a Luciferian and not a Satanist . . . but that's besides the point.
The Point would be that, in my opinion, the Christian religion is not about these silly rules and regulations, not about Sin, it is not about guilt and persecution, not about salvation . . . all those things are what Man have attached to this Belief System.

The Word of The Christ is simply LOVE. That book you all embrace is a simple Love Letter . . . start reading it like that next time, it will open your heart up more than it is already.


Genesis 4:15
Tamen SENIOR said ut him , " secus ; si quisquam iuguolo Cain , is mos sino vengeance septem vicis super " Tunc SENIOR loco a vestigium in Cain ut nemo quisnam instituo him would iuguolo him.

Deus ventus totus liberi. Ut ut terminus , is mos vel servo maioribus sinners ex valde delictum ...which they themselves have succumbed to.

Alas, but Sin is in your Mind not your Heart.

.[/quote]Alas, but Sin is in your Mind not your Heart.[/quote]

According to the experts Sin: To violate the laws of God.
When Cain murdered Able, he sinned). The very act of murder , from within any state of mind or heart is still a sin. To avert the perpetuity of sins there after, God had essentially laid down some specific rules and cited the specific consequences.

I think Sinfulness can be construed as a gauge of both the mind and heart. As with all emotional and intellectual artifacts, Music, simply expresses what is already there. So essentially, if one is abound with negative energy and expresses it in Dark wave music, the music is simply the delivery system of that particular energy. Like wise, the same applies for "positive" energy.
Some folks call these energies "Good" and "Evil"

However, Negative energy could be expressed to consonant patterns, and positive energy through dissonant patterns. In any case..(.Rushing..are you gettin this... ?).. Music could be construed as a language, which facilitates consonant/ dissonant expression. One can deduce that the scope and gradients of context in a piece of music or song, are infinite.

Simply put, I could contrive the most evil sounding growl out of my guitar but actually intend to save the world and not destroy it. The listener can really never know. However, its what the listener brings to the table , which decides whether my song is evil or holy.

WOW see what i mean, this whole thing was about,music,not the bible,not faith, not in what you have faith in,or not,and look at what has been posted! i was talking about music v lyrics and look where it went,This is band mix not religion mix

No, you're still holding on to your stick and you need to let it go. This isn't just band mix, it is religion mix, politic mix, gig mix, "I'm a broke ass musician" mix and "dudes love boobies mix." Yeah, all that.

Chaeya

According to the experts Sin: To violate the laws of God.
When Cain murdered Able, he sinned). The very act of murder , from within any state of mind or heart is still a sin. To avert the perpetuity of sins there after, God had essentially laid down some specific rules and cited the specific consequences.

I think Sinfulness can be construed as a gauge of both the mind and heart. As with all emotional and intellectual artifacts, Music, simply expresses what is already there. So essentially, if one is abound with negative energy and expresses it in Dark wave music, the music is simply the delivery system of that particular energy. Like wise, the same applies for "positive" energy.
Some folks call these energies "Good" and "Evil"

However, Negative energy could be expressed to consonant patterns, and positive energy through dissonant patterns. In any case..(.Rushing..are you gettin this... ?).. Music could be construed as a language, which facilitates consonant/ dissonant expression. One can deduce that the scope and gradients of context in a piece of music or song, are infinite.

Simply put, I could contrive the most evil sounding growl out of my guitar but actually intend to save the world and not destroy it. The listener can really never know. However, its what the listener brings to the table , which decides whether my song is evil or holy.

God is a term for a non-corporeal being, a term that is Man's personification of the natural, ordered, organic universe . . . not a Being. There are no ‘laws' of God to speak of.

That said: As for ‘story' of Cain, this may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the days in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Simply put, I could contrive the most evil sounding growl out of my guitar but actually intend to save the world and not destroy it. The listener can really never know. However, its what the listener brings to the table , which decides whether my song is evil or holy.

I couldn't agree more.

God is a term for a non-corporeal being, a term that is Man's personification of the natural, ordered, organic universe . . . not a Being. There are no ‘laws' of God to speak of.

Then, according to your assertion, there is no basis or foundation from which love is able to emerge, thrive and sustain, and therefore, there is no love to speak of, either.

That said: As for ‘story' of Cain, this may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the days in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

Might be a bit of a stretch here. I would liken the act of Cain more as an assassination then as a feud over resources an dominion.

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Technically speaking, they both were born of the Flesh... The real issue was, who was the father? There is a theory floating around, that the conception of Cain was through Lucifer. But, had it been through Adam, it would have made Cain in the lineage of God (Since Adam was the son of God)

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all, that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

I wouldn't say that Cain was superior. After all, he broke down and murdered his own brother. Even without a God, I would say that's a concern surrounding anybody's character. (I believe that Lucifer's contempt against God became manifest through Cain, hence its why I call the murder an assassination.)

Seth came about to replace Abel (The lineage of God) . It's been said that Seth is the origin of a certain pillar we now call science and innovation. Perhaps, the irony is lost on most scholars, since it was Cain who touted the agriculture.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't

.

There is nothing worse than receiving a gift from somebody who doesn't believe you should have it, or just gives it up begrudgingly. Its rather insulting. I would reject such gifts, myself.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Since there is no God per se, or there is but a non-corporeal, non-'being", then there cannot possibly be any "angels of light" beer . Therefore, How would Cain fall beholdant to a lineage that does not exist?

God is a term for a non-corporeal being, a term that is Man's personification of the natural, ordered, organic universe . . . not a Being. There are no ‘laws' of God to speak of.

Then, according to your assertion, there is no basis or foundation from which love is able to emerge, thrive and sustain, and therefore, there is no love to speak of, either.

That said: As for ‘story' of Cain, this may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the days in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

Might be a bit of a stretch here. I would liken the act of Cain more as an assassination then as a feud over resources an dominion.

Yet furthermore, Cain was not the son of Adam. Eve conceived her first son with the Serpent, Lucifer. Cain was not born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer. On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words, Abel was indeed born from flesh.

Technically speaking, they both were born of the Flesh... The real issue was, who was the father? There is a theory floating around, that the conception of Cain was through Lucifer. But, had it been through Adam, it would have made Cain in the lineage of God (Since Adam was the son of God)

We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all, that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

I wouldn't say that Cain was superior. After all, he broke down and murdered his own brother. Even without a God, I would say that's a concern surrounding anybody's character. (I believe that Lucifer's contempt against God became manifest through Cain, hence its why I call the murder an assassination.)

Seth came about to replace Abel (The lineage of God) . It's been said that Seth is the origin of a certain pillar we now call science and innovation. Perhaps, the irony is lost on most scholars, since it was Cain who touted the agriculture.

Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that would appease Him. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals. According to the bible the creator God preferred the latter. The bible says that the Creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the Creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the Creator and Cain's weren't

.

There is nothing worse than receiving a gift from somebody who doesn't believe you should have it, or just gives it up begrudgingly. Its rather insulting. I would reject such gifts, myself.

Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the Creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the Creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the Creator.

Since there is no God per se, or there is but a non-corporeal, non-'being", then there cannot possibly be any "angels of light" beer . Therefore, How would Cain fall beholdant to a lineage that does not exist?

O_O excellent retorts! I feel like I am on one of my Occult Forums!! I have NO further comments, they would only extend controversy unnecessarily. Beliefs are Beliefs . . . the only diatribe I have that you said is about LOVE. The foundation of LOVE does not stem from a make-believe entity, it is a Natural, Organic Objective Universal mechanism enjoyed by evolved species. God? Nah!!

But you are not off the hook...You hailed Satan...

Instead, try hailing a Cab... and ask the driver what he thinks about lukewarm coffee

I like that one!

Actually I am a Luciferian and not a Satanist . . . but that's besides the point.
The Point would be that, in my opinion, the Christian religion is not about these silly rules and regulations, not about Sin, it is not about guilt and persecution, not about salvation . . . all those things are what Man have attached to this Belief System.

The Word of The Christ is simply LOVE. That book you all embrace is a simple Love Letter . . . start reading it like that next time, it will open your heart up more than it is already.


Genesis 4:15
Tamen SENIOR said ut him , " secus ; si quisquam iuguolo Cain , is mos sino vengeance septem vicis super " Tunc SENIOR loco a vestigium in Cain ut nemo quisnam instituo him would iuguolo him.

Deus ventus totus liberi. Ut ut terminus , is mos vel servo maioribus sinners ex valde delictum ...which they themselves have succumbed to.

Alas, but Sin is in your Mind not your Heart.

You say that sin is in your mind and not your heart. As humans we get what we call a Gut Feeling. I believe it is a way of saying we feel it in our heart, or our Soul. If we follow our heart, we have soul. Some of us believe that when we die our soul will go to heaven, not our body. Our heart can still be found in an exhumed body many years after death. Others believe we will not go to hell to be tormented, in the same way. To believe that either case is not true is to say you don't have a soul to go to either place.

Music isnt evil, metal isnt satanic. I mean sure there are satanic bands out there, of course, but not EVERY metal band. The media just uses metal as a scapegoat for teen suicides and sh*t like that, referring to it as "the music of Satan." I'm a Christian and I listen to bands like Slipknot, Murderdolls, and Wednesday 13 and i love them! I mean, yes Slipknot's song "Heretic Anthem" reffers to Satan (the line "if ur 555 then im 666"), Murderdolls' song "Evil is Good" kinda bashes God, and Wednesday 13 has songs called "God is a Lie," "Faith in the Devil," and "Thank you Satan." But it doesnt mean they're Satanists. They just sing that stuff for fun and because it pisses people off. You can't take songs like that, or the lyrics, seriously.

Miz Aslyum

Nightwish has a tune on Oceanborn where Satan speaks his ugly words but the tune is not endorsing his point of view - merely acknowledging that it exists.

The bands you mention are probably having fun pissing people off - I know i used to. But that is dangerous stuff. There is actually something big going on out there in God and the other side land, and one can get burned. If you need to gross out the squares just moon 'em or something. worked for Travis Tritt.

Hope you find the people you need.

Talbot

To add on to what Mike said, there is truth to that. As a non-Christian, it doesn't meant I don't acknowledge that there is a strong dark, chaotic presence out there in the world and unless you know how to navigate it and control yourself, it will swallow you. When people do things simply for the "shock" value of it, then they aren't standing in their truth and they become the playthings of these forces. There are forces around who manipulate people, call it satan, call it demonic or whatever other label you put on it, but it's there. You don't truly understand until you've been in the throes of madness.

I remember I liked the anime Yu-Gi-Oh and I used to collect the cards and I realized I didn't like how the art of the cards, the characters and their powers, and I got rid of them. Many people would say "oh it's just a kid's show" but kids get into this, and it can manipulate one in ways they don't see. I don't allow violent video games in my house, where you're just mindlessly shooting things and blowing things up. That doesn't mean I'm against violence, but it has to make sense. I mean, Zelda and Mario is about as violent as it gets. You spend your day zoning out on World of Warcraft and Call of Duty, it will affect you. For most people it will do nothing, but in others it does cause a level of desensitization.

As far as music goes, there was a band that played electronica and their CD was so heavy, I couldn't listen to it. The tones affected me in ways I didn't like. It was subliminal and it made me feel horrible inside. I'm very sensitive to tones and melodies. I can't stand death metal and the barking growling, nor can I stand modern jazz and Stravinsky, it makes me feel like my brain is erupting and being pulled apart.

But this world is about balance and that element is going to be there. I don't begrudge someone that has a fantasy about playing with evil, demonic characters and all, but they need to understand what they're doing with it and the nature of the character they're portraying or the lyrics, music and imagery they're pumping out into the world. I've seen young people play around with dark magic using drugs, and watched them go completely mad. The element that these bands send out doing their playing around, affects other people seriously.

Hence the question, should they be responsible if one of their songs drives someone to suicide or to go postal. On one level, no, the sole responsibility lies with the listener. But on another deeper level, they are responsible on a spiritual level on what they're sending out there UNLESS they're willing to put a disclaimer on their music stating that "this music is for entertainment purposes only and that it in no way represents the true beliefs of the musicians." or something like that. Just like you go to tarot reading websites and they state that "this is solely for entertainment purposes." That is merely taking some responsibility for what you're putting out there.

Chaeya

Hence the question, should they be responsible if one of their songs drives someone to suicide or to go postal. On one level, no, the sole responsibility lies with the listener. But on another deeper level, they are responsible on a spiritual level on what they're sending out there UNLESS they're willing to put a disclaimer on their music stating that "this music is for entertainment purposes only and that it in no way represents the true beliefs of the musicians." or something like that. Just like you go to tarot reading websites and they state that "this is solely for entertainment purposes." That is merely taking some responsibility for what you're putting out there.

Chaeya

Should a Bar/Club be held responsible for someone who decides to drink heavily , and then Drive? If the answer is yes, then how much responsible? If the answer is no, then how does a victim get reconciliation from loss of loved ones in an accident?

The problem as i see it, is too many people would like to just pass the buck... They want to blame every single person, system or thing, for the troubles they find them selves in or perpetuate. Those people NEVER own up to their own mistakes...

So, if some kid decides that its cool to jump off a bridge because some song told him that he should, I'd say that the kid was screwed up to begin with, and I don't care if Satan himself was the voice behind it, its the Kid's fault for not seeking the higher road (if only to reach out to somebody).

As I see it, if folks boast success in their lives without due credit to God (Or the 'good" forces'), then its only fair that when things are going wrong for them because of their decisions, they shouldn't be blaming the devil (or the 'bad Forces')

Should a Bar/Club be held responsible for someone who decides to drink heavily , and then Drive? If the answer is yes, then how much responsible? If the answer is no, then how does a victim get reconciliation from loss of loved ones in an accident?

Legally, if I was at a bar and I watched a guy get drunk and you failed to stop serving him drinks. We leave the bar and that idiot hits my car and I get hurt I will sue your ass for being partly responsible, and I will win because I work for lawyers and I know how the law works, even if I push you to just settling with me, I will get some cash. So there's your level of responsibility. Spiritually, I would go out of my way and make sure these people get home safely. One person I know who owns a bar is really cool and there is a neighborhood drunk who comes there and gets sloshed. She cuts him off after a certain time, then she makes sure one of the other patrons drives him home. That's what I mean by being responsible! He's an alcoholic, she can't stop that, but she can at least take care of her end of it. I can't tell you how many drunks Cisco and I have driven home. I could have said "f**k it, not my problem" but if I see it, then I will do something about it. I know too many people who are dead because of these clowns.

So, if some kid decides that its cool to jump off a bridge because some song told him that he should, I'd say that the kid was screwed up to begin with, and I don't care if Satan himself was the voice behind it, its the Kid's fault for not seeking the higher road (if only to reach out to somebody).

Yes, he was screwed up. That's the problem with mental illness. I went through my hell with it and most of my so-called friends just cast me aside and said "it wasn't their problem." Doctors just throwing pills at me all the time. Luckily, I was strong enough to help myself, many people aren't. The mental health resources in this country is sh*t all because everyone thinks we should just be able to "get over it" and the favorite "not our problem."

There are a lot of folks out there screwed up. So if you write a song called "Pull the Trigger" and have lyrics to the effect of saying "put the gun to your head, life is sh*t, pull the trigger, this is it" and have some really down grungy, depressing music in the background - I mean, WTF? Every suicidal maniac will love that song. YOU ARE PARTLY RESPONSIBLE. Maybe not on a legal level, but spiritually YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE, and that sh*t will come back to haunt you.

Yes, people love to blame and not take responsibility but it works both ways. If I see someone drunk, then I need to step in and do something about it whether it's my job or not. And believe me, there were plenty of times when I didn't, and I feel bad that I didn't. Fortunately nothing happened, but now I will go out of my way to make sure something is done if I can.

If you do dark, demonic type music and pretend you're satan on stage and all that, then that's the type of element you will attract. You may take off the make up go home to your house in the suburbs and go to church on Sunday and say it was all a game. But there are people who take that stuff seriously and they believe you live it and breathe it. So you are partly responsible for contributing to the darkness that surrounds this planet. If that's what one wants to do fine, but they need to own up to what they do.

As I see it, if folks boast success in their lives without due credit to God (Or the 'good" forces'), then its only fair that when things are going wrong for them because of their decisions, they shouldn't be blaming the devil (or the 'bad Forces')

I agree, I take total responsibility for all that I do. When sh*t happens it's usually because I wasn't paying attention or I failed to tighten up some loose ends. That's the problem I have with religion, it takes the responsibility away from them and give it to some other being.

Chaeya

As I see it, if folks boast success in their lives without due credit to God (Or the 'good" forces'), then its only fair that when things are going wrong for them because of their decisions, they shouldn't be blaming the devil (or the 'bad Forces')

Isn't that presumptuous that anything 'good' 'successful' must be attributed to the Abrahamic god and everything 'bad' is the result of the Devil?

I couldn't possibly see it that way . . . have you noticed the monumental amount of murder in your bible, all in the name of your god?

According to your own scriptures:
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21)

-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3)

-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6)

-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

-In (2 Kings 10:18-27) God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!