General Music Chat

I think you're flat wrong.
I think the whole denomination is wrong in the conclusion, and some methods used to reach it.

A denomination is a division literally. If we simply follow the new testament pattern, no more no less, then we are not divided and therefore cannot be a denomination.

But, and here's the great thing: we can agree to disagree.

I'd like to think it won't "divide" us however...unless the idea is that your church is the "one true church": in which case...we do divide.

I don't have a church. Christ does. He bought one bride with his blood. How do you know if your part of his church? Look in the bible and see if the church you are a part of follows the pattern he set up for it in his word.

If you are nothing else, you are strong in your convictions.
That's a rare commodity in these fickle days.

cheers,
R

Thanks. It's easy to be strong in my convictions. They never change. They don't have to. The word of God never changes and it's clear as bell to me. That's not to say it's easy to resist the urge to sin. We all sin. But it is easy to remain constant in my beliefs.

And another topic all together.... sort of.
Who is the church named after where you worship?
Martin Luther did NOT want the church to be named after him.
Does the name glorify God or Christ? If not that church is not his bride either.

"the church of God" (1 Cor. 1:2)

"church of the firstborn" (Hebrews 12:23)

"churches of Christ" (Romans 16:16)

"Body of Christ" (Colossians 1:24)

"Bride of Christ" (Revelation 21:2)

"House of God" (1 Timothy 3:15)

wow what happend to the topic i first stated????? This reminds me of the roll play in school when you get a line of kids and you tell the first one a short line and have the last one in line repeat what he was told ,how many went back to the first post to see what i had posted and was talking about

how many went back to the first post to see what i had posted and was talking about

The Wisconsin Synod is very similar doctrinally to the Missouri Synod I was baptized in.

Not really relevant but interesting to me.

wow what happend to the topic i first stated????? This reminds me of the roll play in school when you get a line of kids and you tell the first one a short line and have the last one in line repeat what he was told ,how many went back to the first post to see what i had posted and was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oEl2r0p ... r_embedded

If not that church is not his bride either.

wow, Paul..I wasn't gonna post anymore in this thread, but I hafta say,
by your words, you have condemned a lot of folks/churches.

If we simply follow the new testament pattern

I submit, if you have no contextual aspect to your biblical interpretation, you will have a very weird church.

I also submit that there is precious little in the entirety of the NT that spells out how we are to conduct this new thing called the "Church".

We have some instructions about propriety(some that was clearly cultural), and some instructions about specific gift usage etc..
but if you think you are patterned after the NT church you read about, well..
do you have folks dropping dead after lying?
Are folks being healed after your shadow falls on them?

Paul, the church of Christ isn't in a name..
In fact, remember the name of the first church?
It had no name.
In fact, it doesn't even mention the names of the guys that founded it.

I fear your denomination is rather hung up on some odd peculiarities, but even more serious, you seem to pretty much write off a rather large number of churches around the world.

A little scary to me..

hmm

You should know that in Bible times, the church is called:

* The temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16)
* The bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:22-32)
* The body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24; Ephesians 1:22-23)
* The kingdom of God's son (Colossians 1:13)
* The house of God (1 Timothy 3:15)
* The church of God (1 Corinthians 1:2)
* The church of the first-born (Hebrews 12:23)
* The church of the Lord (Acts 20:28)
* The churches of Christ (Romans 16:16)

That's from the COC website...

Um, did someone tell them those phrases are interpreted Greek?
Um, what happened to ἐκκλησία , which I'm sure you're familiar with...
that whole called out ones...a gathering...an assembly...


ugh...
it's gettin deep lads..

If not that church is not his bride either.

wow, Paul..I wasn't gonna post anymore in this thread, but I hafta say,
by your words, you have condemned a lot of folks/churches.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If we simply follow the new testament pattern

I submit, if you have no contextual aspect to your biblical interpretation, you will have a very weird church.

I Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

I also submit that there is precious little in the entirety of the NT that spells out how we are to conduct this new thing called the "Church".

1. Lord's Supper - The New Testament and early church history record that Christians met on the first day of every week (Sunday) to worship God and remember Christ (Acts 20:7; I Corinthians 11:23-34; 16:1-2).
2. Prayer - (Acts 2:42; Philippians 4:6-7; I Thessalonians 5:17-18).
3. Singing - God's word authorizes only vocal music and specifically singing (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16; Hebrews 2:12). The New Testament shows no use of mechanical instruments of music in worship to God by the church Christ established. Church history notes no such use for nearly 700 years after the New Testament was completed. It is an innovation of men, not of God.
4. Giving - Free-willed, cheerful generous, and every week (Acts 20:35; I Corinthians 16:1-2; 2 Corinthians 8:9).
5. Preaching of the Word - The gospel of Christ, not men's doctrines nor entertainment, saves and strengthens us (Acts 2:42; 20:7; Romans 10:17; I Corinthians 1:18-23)[/b]

We have some instructions about propriety(some that was clearly cultural), and some instructions about specific gift usage etc..
but if you think you are patterned after the NT church you read about, well..
do you have folks dropping dead after lying?
Are folks being healed after your shadow falls on them?

Miracles were to prove the Apostles really were from God and to encourage the belief that Jesus is the son of God. Miracles ceased.

I Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Paul, the church of Christ isn't in a name..
In fact, remember the name of the first church?
It had no name.

Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

In fact, it doesn't even mention the names of the guys that founded it.

The guys? "guy(s)"?

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I fear your denomination is rather hung up on some odd peculiarities, but even more serious, you seem to pretty much write off a rather large number of churches around the world.

A little scary to me..

hmm

A denomination is a division literally. If we simply follow the new testament pattern, no more no less, then we are not divided and therefore cannot be a denomination.

I don't write off churches. What I do is recognize a person is not following the clear new testament pattern for the lord's church. Then I point them to the relevant scriptures and let them decide for themselves whether they will follow the bible's plan for Jesus' church.

What is up to every individual to decide for themselves is the following.
1. Do I believe the bible to be the word of God and the only authority in religious matters? If so..
2. Is this church I'm worshiping with in harmony with the Church that Christ started that is described in the new testament? If so...
3. Will I attempt to either A. Submit the necessary changes to the Church I worship with or B. Seek his Church.

There are thousands of different churches. They are all different. Christ says there is one Church. Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Are you part of his Church?

This is GREAT, what other religion on earth can fight amongst itself?
Hail Satan!

That's from the COC website...

Um, did someone tell them those phrases are interpreted Greek?
Um, what happened to ἐκκλησία , which I'm sure you're familiar with...
that whole called out ones...a gathering...an assembly...


ugh...
it's gettin deep lads..

Ekklesia much?

There is no COC website. There are many. And they are not connected. Another common erring from the truth is to have ANY church government higher than the autonomous local congregation. I.E. the state conference of such and such. Or the national council of such and such.

The only scriptural church government is this God, Jesus, the bible.
Then elders over a specific congregation that are qualified according to

I Tim 3:1This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

So a loud and clear for instance. The pope is not a biblical authorized office. Neither are any of the other thousands of offices between the pope and the elders (or overseers, or pastors, or presbyters, or shepherds) of any individual congregation.

More non authorized church governments.
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
national methodist church
The list could go on. It applies to any church government other than what is authorized by the N.T. Only elders over each congregation are authorized. There is nothing to vote on. God's message is plain.

This is GREAT, what other religion on earth can fight amongst itself?
Hail Satan!

Do you see us fighting? Do you see us calling each other names? We are studying.
II Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Really Etu, Hail Satan? Do you like rooting for the loser?
Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

This is GREAT, what other religion on earth can fight amongst itself?
Hail Satan!

Do you see us fighting? Do you see us calling each other names? We are studying.
II Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Really Etu, Hail Satan? Do you like rooting for the loser?
Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Oh stop, all this make believe believed by grown men! Faithfully quoting scripture written by Man because that's all there is!

And yeah, I see some bickering back and forth . . . are you so blind from the truth that you cannot even see this?

By the way, I don't believe in Satan either . . . so it was a joke.

Oh stop, all this make believe believed by grown men! Faithfully quoting scripture written by Man because that's all there is!

Do you believe that man knew that the earth was floating in space when the bible was written?

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over the empty place, and hangs the earth on nothing.

Or that the earth was round?

Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

I can go on, but then again given your track record here a certain verse pertaining a pearl may be appropriate.

And yeah, I see some bickering back and forth . . . are you so blind from the truth that you cannot even see this?

I see Rich and I trying to teach each other. We both are convicted and care for souls. We both want to go to heaven and help as many people get there as we can.

By the way, I don't believe in Satan either . . . so it was a joke.

Yes I know. Don't worry. He believes in you. So does God.

Are you kidding . . . the Greeks claimed the earth was a sphere 6 centuries before Christ. Before that both Egyptian & Persian astrology/astronomy clearly understood that we were a planet floating in a universe with other planets.

Matter of fact every single solitary idea in this book of yours is stolen from another source prior to it.