General Music Chat

I remember when I used to think that signing with a label would solve all my problems. Yes, they would pay for everything, manage my every roadblock, market and promote until the record was successful, and give me support for tours, handle all difficult situations that arise, and send me $$$ once in a while.

Then I woke up....


A label does nothing except promote a product which THEY own. That might get you some semblance of "fame" but the rest is up to you. If you don't figure out how to take advantage of having your music sent to stores, then you might not even be a one-hit wonder. They aren't going to do it for you.

Since the biz began hemorraging cash in the early part of the last decade, they don't do jack for anyone because they're trying to survive themselves. The newest con game is the 360 deal, where they take a manager's percentage (on top of record sales/royalties) though they aren't managing. Oy, the many ways they claim your money! And no matter how sweet your contract might be, it doesn't matter if they don't pay you, does it?

So my advice to anyone who is still waiting for a record label to take care of your problems is this: Being a great musician is not the same thing as being a recording artist. If you want to be a recording artist, then you have to make GREAT recordings. Period.

If you're waiting on someone else to invest in you, then that tells me that you aren't confident that your music is worth investing in, or you would be doing it yourself.

"IF" you really think you are "recording artist" material and have the goods, then you should be ready to take the financial risk of letting others know about it. It's not that hard to write a song. What you do after that will determine how serious you are about a career as a songwriter.

You says it's more money than you have to make a broadcast quality recording? Then stretch it out over time...even years. More advice: don't skimp on the musicians by having your friends play because they'll do it free. Pay the people who are worth recording or you might end up with a wasted investment.

If that seems like more than you are willing to do...then I hear that McDonalds is hiring and there no shame in honest work.

Interesting.

And a very ( oh whats the word IE driven only by a desire to profit ) oriented opinion.

Not that your wrong ...

But I see a " band " as being so much more than a group of hired guns.
If that was all the chemistry it took to be massively successful then why do THE DAMN YANKEES suck so bad ? ( well, IMO anyways LOL)
Because they are a group of hired guns with financial backing.
Not a cohesive unit heretofore known as "band".

Yes, some very successful bands have internal strife yet the musical chemistry cannot be denied.


I am in full agreement in investing in ones self however.
And am in the process do doing such at a pace my personal financial stability will allow.

If I had about $25K laying around I / we could put together a hell of a team. CD's, three maybe four with the materials we have now professionally recorded ready to distribute.
Music DVD's, Internet site could be greatly expanded.
Upgraded hardware, software, and transportation for a local level road show.
As well as promotional materials.

I agree with Sans, I don't want a bunch of hired guns in my band. What about me? I'm going under every paycheck getting this thing off the ground.

I'm not making any money yet, all the money I have is getting invested in the band, so no one's getting paid yet. That's why I got guys that believe in the potential and the music. We're doing original sets and the big clubs in LA, you have to put all your energy into getting people to your gig. Most of the time, you get these hired cats in the band they don't want to do sh*t but show up and play. They aren't out there promoting the band, selling tickets or doing anything other than showing up and playing. I take care of my band like family, I feed them, I make sure they have gas money and I'm organizing my unit as a company where they'll be treated like investors. So when they'll be like shareholders and when I start making money, they'll get paid dividends off it. I'm already talking to my accountant about forming my band as a LLC, but I can't do that until we start making money.

But it's true that the only thing worthwhile a record label can offer you these days is a good distribution deal, but you have to make sure you get a good entertainment attorney to weed up all that misleading language. Also, they have something called a Letter of Intent that you can inadvertently sign and it will lock you up with them like a contract. So basically, don't sign anything they put in front of you until you talk it over and have an attorney look at it.

Most record labels, management companies and such these days aren't going to want to come in unless they see money. Meaning, you've got a pretty good following to the point where you're coming away getting paid.

I like the way Loreena McKennitt did it. She was an indie artist and set up her own label. Her music got featured on a show about witches on KCET back in the 90s and she took off like a rocket. She kept Quinlan Road, but signed a distribution deal with a major label (I forgot which one), but she kept the terms in her favor. Her songs have now been featured in numerous television shows and movies.

Right now, I'm not thinking about a record label, I'm out simply to get a strong following then start expanding my touring are to San Francisco, Las Vegas and San Diego. I've been going out checking out other bands with similar music so we can hook up and do shows and tours together. I will have products to sell and giveaways at each of my shows. My big goal at the moment is to open up for a bigger artist to expand my fanbase, and play some big named festivals. You get the fans, get some songs placed in commercials and/or a movie, then you can start calling some shots and shaping your own deal with a major, or not. There are indie bands out there doing very well and making more money than people signed to major label deals.

I'm taking it a step at a time.

Chaeya

Chaeya

I tried very hard to organize my martial arts school in a similar fashion.
Had some talented fighters from various schools and backgrounds that could have in a very few years had profitable schools that still taught solid technique. ( not just selling belts for soccer moms kids )

Unfortunately only a few of them had the foresight to see the potential.
Even some of my "family" whom were second / third generation under my Sifu would not commit.

I know this type arrangement will work with the proper commitment from your people.

I pray you do well.
The potential is unlimited.

Thanks, George! That's too bad and unfortunately we live in an age where people just want immediate returns. Unless you're just exceedingly lucky or was born with people in high places, the majority of folks will fall by the wayside in what they're trying to do. Lucky for me, I got a bunch of guys who love to eat in the band and I spend a lot of time bribing them with food and my latest passion of bringing homemade cupcakes to every rehearsal!

Chaeya

I agree with sans. I used to be a "Have guitar will travel sideman". The problem with hired guns is this: People expect to hear what they hear on your recording when they book you into the club. Hire the best studio pickers you can get for your recording. Then, when you do the gig, where is all that great studio musician magic? That will give you a bad rap. People expect to hear what they heard from you on your CD. When they don't, the word gets out that you are a bunch of hacks that put out a great CD using studio magic. A lot of big highly promoted bands did things that way in the past. Their albums really were on fire, but after paying the big gate, you heard guys that sounded like crap outside of the studio. And people just don't forget when they feel they have been ripped off. You don't want that kind of reputation following you around.

I agree with Sans, I don't want a bunch of hired guns in my band. What about me? I'm going under every paycheck getting this thing off the ground.

I'm not making any money yet, all the money I have is getting invested in the band, so no one's getting paid yet. That's why I got guys that believe in the potential and the music. We're doing original sets and the big clubs in LA, you have to put all your energy into getting people to your gig. Most of the time, you get these hired cats in the band they don't want to do sh*t but show up and play. They aren't out there promoting the band, selling tickets or doing anything other than showing up and playing. I take care of my band like family, I feed them, I make sure they have gas money and I'm organizing my unit as a company where they'll be treated like investors. So when they'll be like shareholders and when I start making money, they'll get paid dividends off it. I'm already talking to my accountant about forming my band as a LLC, but I can't do that until we start making money.

But it's true that the only thing worthwhile a record label can offer you these days is a good distribution deal, but you have to make sure you get a good entertainment attorney to weed up all that misleading language. Also, they have something called a Letter of Intent that you can inadvertently sign and it will lock you up with them like a contract. So basically, don't sign anything they put in front of you until you talk it over and have an attorney look at it.

Most record labels, management companies and such these days aren't going to want to come in unless they see money. Meaning, you've got a pretty good following to the point where you're coming away getting paid.

I like the way Loreena McKennitt did it. She was an indie artist and set up her own label. Her music got featured on a show about witches on KCET back in the 90s and she took off like a rocket. She kept Quinlan Road, but signed a distribution deal with a major label (I forgot which one), but she kept the terms in her favor. Her songs have now been featured in numerous television shows and movies.

Right now, I'm not thinking about a record label, I'm out simply to get a strong following then start expanding my touring are to San Francisco, Las Vegas and San Diego. I've been going out checking out other bands with similar music so we can hook up and do shows and tours together. I will have products to sell and giveaways at each of my shows. My big goal at the moment is to open up for a bigger artist to expand my fanbase, and play some big named festivals. You get the fans, get some songs placed in commercials and/or a movie, then you can start calling some shots and shaping your own deal with a major, or not. There are indie bands out there doing very well and making more money than people signed to major label deals.

I'm taking it a step at a time.

Chaeya

You are obviously an Artist, touched by a Muse (specifically Euterpe) the physical / material aspect of making music is not what is important, it should never have gotten to the point of commercialism.

Making music is an unveiling of the Soul for the benefit of those that don't make music, it is Our Rite.

I was fortunate to have already accomplished my material musical goals early in life and now only Create Musiq from Within

Chaeya ,you capitalist pig! HAHAHA.
Darling, you seem to be one of the very few that understands. I think your business plan is very workable. Stop talking and just do it, HUH.
Did you finish SHEER FORCE OF WILL?
All that you are doing also opens a bunch of other doors.

You and Cisco ROCK!!!

I'm behind you 2 million %. When you do make that breakthrough, thats when the vultures will descend. Thats also when you have to be real careful.
Meanwhile always make sure you have merch to sell. It helps to get people more attached to you.

GUESS WHO?

Huzzah for you, Etu, for being able to do approach things just musically. Unfortunately, my path went all kinds of wild when I was younger and I had a lot of failures musically, talk about the wrong stuff. The nice thing about our project is we do the music we want, we don't think of terms of commercial when we're writing. Being an indie artist you're free to have fun while you're writing. Go Euterpe!

Chaeya
Empress of Ev*A*Dream

I feel blessed as well.
Great bunch of guys, good family support.
We switched studios to get our live sound into our CD instead of a studio interpretation of our sound.

It is important to me.

Others have their own path.

Last night, went up to the Viper Room to check out a band called "Los Einstein." Very good line up of bands and obvious people who take their careers very serious.

Here's their video http://loseinstein.com/

Tried to hand out some flyers and tickets, but f**k IT WAS LOUD!!!! And it isn't a young thing, I complained about this when I was young. Why the heck do I have to scream till my voice breaks to ask someone which band is about to go on (and this was during the time the house music was playing). The bands actually weren't that bad!

I had fun walking down Sunset Blvd. Everything's changed so much with new shops, new strip malls, video billboards blaring like Las Vegas. My drummer had a gig up at the House of Blues, so he walked me down to the Viper Room, looking every bit of my body guard, ha ha, everyone at the sidewalk cafe's were stopping to see who I was. Yeah, not many chicks are dressed Victorian with a tophat and cane, but then, that's how I feel the most comfortable.

Cisco did a gig out in San Bernardino last night to more than a 100 people and they loved him and want him back, so that's good.

Glen, I will get SFW remixed and remastered. One of the things I spoke to my friend about last night. It's good to have peeps on your side.

Perspective, use it or lose it. I was thinking, I know I'm older, but I still feel the same exhilaration that I did when I first saw it. A land of opportunities. Yeah, the business has changed, but there's still a lot of fun in it. Right now, I see I'm at the beginning stage where people are like "WTF? Who are you? Why are you dressed like that?" Because this place is boring and I need to make a little more lively! I just have to find my people.

Chaeya

Most of the tunes I've heard with hired guns are LAME. They'll put in the same amount of "work" as the amount of time they think your pay is worth it to them. A much better situation is getting a working band around you that actually LIKES the music, ENJOYS working on it AND is willing to take the same risk investing time and THEIR equal share of money into the project. Anything less is LAME. (I'm available to be your hired gun bass player/lead singer. Not cheap but good...)

Most of the tunes I've heard with hired guns are LAME. They'll put in the same amount of "work" as the amount of time they think your pay is worth it to them. A much better situation is getting a working band around you that actually LIKES the music, ENJOYS working on it AND is willing to take the same risk investing time and THEIR equal share of money into the project. Anything less is LAME. (I'm available to be your hired gun bass player/lead singer. Not cheap but good...)

I will only hire you, if you promise to be lame also!

If you don't put any time into a tune it invariable turns out lame. I won't sign my name on anything I think is lame...

Chaeya

My wife and others were royally pissed by the tux I wore to her son's wedding but I think you'd have liked it. Long coat, like a frock, with no tie but a diamond stick pin. Flamenco boots and a walking stick.

When the wife saw all the young girls liked it she changed her mind!

If I ever get back to Hollywood we'll have to sashay down the blvd! And yes, you've made me nostalgic - that place has one very special attribute and that is the sense of expectancy - I miss that.

Talbot