United States

Is this really the best you can do? I wear cons because they are cheap, last a long time, and are great for skating. I appreciate you checking out the site & letting me know the pics aren't working. I haven't checked in in awhile as I'm getting ready to change the site, having brought in a new drummer and a second guitarist.

In reference to checking out your other stuff, why the f**k would I bother? I didn't like what I heard so far, so why would I go out of my way to hear even more shitty music from an aging douche-bag? You suck, move on. That's why you want the government to sponsor you. Because no one will actually buy that sh*t.

I love it that the best thing you can come up with is to call me fat. This, from an aging queen in a see through shirt trying to make a mean face. Don't get me wrong, all that make-up does pretty you up a bit, but it still doesn't make you look young enough for the preteen ravers. By the way, do you have to stay on the registered offenders list for life, or do they cut it short if you behave yourself?

The simple fact of the matter is, you are a f**k poseur. You spend your time here talking sh*t and attacking anyone who doesn't fit your mold of the perfect musician. You like to try and wax poetic and make yourself seem more intelligent than you are. When it comes down to it, it's very obvious that you are just a lonely old man, trying desperately to hold on to his youth and forget about the way he has been tormented by everyone around him for his entire life. I actually kind of feel sorry for you.

Now, as you're boring me and seem to be one of a whopping 4 people who regularly post here, I think I'm ready to move on for awhile. This is getting incredibly boring, and I think I've made my point. So I'll allow you to continue to spout off about me and everyone else on here in peace. After all, I think it's quite clear to everyone here that you need this in order to hide who you are. Perhaps I'll check back in a few months and see if this site has taken off yet. I'm guessing no on this one.

(This is where you try to save face by saying I'm running away.)

Buh-bye now. Say "Hi" to your skateboard for me, jr. lol

Yes, JANSEN, you've made your point. And the point - that you are a frustrated, failed, unemployed, talentless, rotund sh*t talking little punk - is well taken.

Of course you didn't dare to go listen to my other music sites because, well, that would have exposed you as a small minded fool. It would also rub salt into the wound exposed by the fact that you dare not post any music here or even on your bands site. That usually means that its not, uhm, worth posting.

So have fun on your walkabout there, Mortimer. May you sell alot of pencils and get lots of beer change. Then you can come back and get your assed owned.

Again.

Buh-bye now. Say "Hi" to your skateboard for me, jr. lol

SKATEBOARD. LOL, notice the complete lack of shock on my face.

OMG I can see the big email coming now..

"Did I ever tell you about the time I thrown off of eBay for ABUSE OF THE EMAILING SYSTEM"? lol


I am telling you Irminsul, there is a limit to how much cerebral excrement you can slap these folks with. They are already crying foul and although all of it may be true, have a care.

These days a mental slap down can be worse then the physical in the eyes of these site admins.

Wow! I didn't realize that this post would start such a controversy. First off, thanks for the replies and the opinions. I just need to clarify about the gov. funding. It's not like there are government employees running the venues. Here is an example. You and your friend find this old building for sale, or lease or something, and it is in the heart of your town's art scene. Now, you nor your friend could afford it, but you know that if you had the building you could create a good atmosphere for people to come and hang out, and enjoy good music. In your current situation you have only one option, keep dreaming. In Europe, you have the ability to create a government proposal that this building could be used for an Art Venue and could attract lots of kids, and adults. Now, you have the money to start a venue and even a monthly "fund" that you could put towards generating art for your community. That doesn't sound so bad does it? You all are acting like it would be bull sh!t, and the government is going to come in and take over the venue and only let Nickleback, and f&cking Stained play there. Government funding, that would mean that more "independent" artist could get paid, and paid well when they came through your town, which creates more bands that aren't trying to get by playing the same bars every weekend and playing crappy cover songs.

And that is another thing. I thought the payment for the rights of songs is awesome. If you write a song, wouldn't you want to get paid a little something if somebody else is making money off performing your stuff? YES! And also, it's not like you have to have your whole set documented before you go on stage, sorry if I stated it that way before. Basically, either before you start or when you get done, you have to sign a paper that has a list of the songs that you played. This doesn't restrict you from jamming, or improvising, it just documents that you didn't perform a Bon Jovi song, or whoever. And it's not some Suit coming up to you saying, "Hey, are you going to be playing any covers tonight you little sh!ts." Everytime it was the dude that ran the "independent venue" who was usually wearing more black than us, and had more tattoos that the whole band put together. So you guys are obviously scared of any type of improvements in our art culture. Oh how I wish we were government funded. If we were, your band, and mine would be touring right now getting paid, and you wouldn't be stuck at your dead end job trying to figure out how to come up with money to get out on the road to do what you love. Or even worse, you have never had the opportunity to get out and tour where you don't even know this wonderful love. (by the way, it's much better than any woman could ever give you. Yep, the road don't let you down.)

Thanks to Irminsul, she is obviously one of the few on here who have seen the proper way music is supported in some places.


CallyG

(giggle) She?

I'm a "he"...but thanks for the kind words anyway.

Cally first of all I wanted to apologize for my part in hijacking this thread of yours, which started off as a really good one asking a compelling question. I allowed myself to get into a spat with a child, and you know how that goes...

So to clarify, the vitriol you saw here was not so much about your topic, it was a feedback loop of personal insults. Now to drag it back to topic - what is so wrong with govt subsidies of the arts?

I found it extremely odd that, among other things, thirdshiftpsycho was building "strawman" arguments faster than he could type them. He automatically read into my defense of govt art subsidy that I was trying to get a grant like that, myself. And par for him, he was wrong. I have never even applied for such a grant because I really don't have to. I am not an underprivileged artist or arts group with no money trying to put together a studio. But, its not all ABOUT me. I defend the National Endowment and other govt arts programs because its a good thing to do, and the pittance it takes is barely noticeable considering the dividends it pays to society in great works of art and performances. Even before you clarified what you meant by "government arts funding", I knew what you meant because like you, I have experienced it.

Taxes are a part of modern societies. The most that you can do is see to it that they are spent in the best ways possible, and I see a modest expenditure of them on the arts as a good social investment. A damn sight better than spending hundreds of billions of that pie on a stupid war based on lies.

The only "good" social investment governments can make are:
Borders
Defence
Taking care of those who have volunteered to work in the often thankless job of the defense and protection of the rest of us.

Everything else is fluff that falls outside the original founding of the United States. I am an original intent libertarian and the thought of politicians having thier hands in anything I create, makes me want to vomit. Beleive me, if there is money being spent on it, politicians will seek to manipulate it.

I grew up in a 3 room house not counting the restroom and the only thing that helped us out was God, our Church and hard work. The government would not have helped and still would be an impediment to the success me and my brothers have experienced.

So no, America should not follow the European social model. It amazes me how so many people who beleive in evolution refuse to allow it to occur. (And yes, I beleive in evolution.)

The best times I have had making and playing music over the last 20 years has been bunking with other bands, partying in the rented Ford E350 hoping the trailer tires will last another 5000 miles and knowing that when I get to the gig, I earned it.

So no, I do not want to see beauracracy and government involved. I can negotiate my own performance agreements and promotional adendums. I do enjoy seeing private enterprise and individuals getting incentives for supporting the arts anonymously. By thier own choice.

You see, if the government subsidizes clubs, I become a tacit supporter of what goes on there. I do not support certain types of music and performances. I rather loathe some genres of music. I hate to think my tax money would go to support something I am opposed to. That subsidy would and does take away my right to express my distaste and pull my support for something. I am forced through the NEA to support art I am disgusted by. My freedoms and rights have been denied me and I have been told by tacit apathy that I should sit down and shut up and hand over my cash.

No sir, I don't like it.

You don't have to like my opinion. And you did not have to pay for my right to express it. That is how it should be.

BB, our resident child is digging up 3 year old threads, just to disrupt things.

Check the dates on the threads.

I wonder why these old threads are regurgitated. The NEA is a huge waste of taxpayer's money. It should be set up and supported ENTIRELY by voluntary tax exempt contributions. I'll bet they would even have MORE money than they do by taking it out of everybody's pocket. Some of the "art" that has been paid for through the NEA includes a display of a cross in a jar of urine and other similar "art." If some filthy rich liberal thinking person wishes to support the NEA out of THEIR pocket more power to them. Supporting the arts is NOT a necessary function of government because what qualifies as art is SUBJECTIVE. We don't need "art" to survive. IMO art will survive nicely by people who BUY it. If the art you are creating is redeeming it will survive on its own merit and not by some government official deciding to collect tax money to ensure its survival. Our education systems around the United States have various degrees of supporting the arts by LOCAL communities. This is the way it should be. Some communities which have the money and people willing to support the arts will naturally have schools that put a higher value on art education. Again, this is NOT something that should be mandated at the federal level with national taxes, but naturally supported by local taxes. I'm a strong believer that art and especially music education has been proven to benefit young people in their learning process, especially in mathematics. Again, federal tax dollars should NOT be involved. It should be done by people in your community, your neighbors. If you are a languishing artist the most likely reason is that what you are trying to sell as art isn't selling for whatever reason OR you don't know how to MARKET your art. The government paying you for your art is insanity. Become a better artist and/or become better at marketing your art. Don't blame the government for your deficiencies...

Well I only made it through a couple o responses and it became obvious that you were up against a wall of American anti-government cynicism.

There's good reason!

I too believe that government involvement is not the answer... Bands have to learn how to say no!
No we will not play for only the door!
No we will not go play for nothing just to get exposure!

In the past if a club owner/promoter screwed over a local band, none of the other local bands would perform for them... Now that there are so many rock star wannabees trying to fill their holes with a false sense of belonging they get what they want... a higher profit margin at the expense of desperate musicians (or posers).

I caught that shortly after posting my rant...

but he used a blinky bump!!!

The only "good" social investment governments can make are:
Borders
Defence
Taking care of those who have volunteered to work in the often thankless job of the defense and protection of the rest of us.

Everything else is fluff that falls outside the original founding of the United States. I am an original intent libertarian and the thought of politicians having thier hands in anything I create, makes me want to vomit. Beleive me, if there is money being spent on it, politicians will seek to manipulate it.

I grew up in a 3 room house not counting the restroom and the only thing that helped us out was God, our Church and hard work. The government would not have helped and still would be an impediment to the success me and my brothers have experienced.

So no, America should not follow the European social model. It amazes me how so many people who beleive in evolution refuse to allow it to occur. (And yes, I beleive in evolution.)

The best times I have had making and playing music over the last 20 years has been bunking with other bands, partying in the rented Ford E350 hoping the trailer tires will last another 5000 miles and knowing that when I get to the gig, I earned it.

So no, I do not want to see beauracracy and government involved. I can negotiate my own performance agreements and promotional adendums. I do enjoy seeing private enterprise and individuals getting incentives for supporting the arts anonymously. By thier own choice.

You see, if the government subsidizes clubs, I become a tacit supporter of what goes on there. I do not support certain types of music and performances. I rather loathe some genres of music. I hate to think my tax money would go to support something I am opposed to. That subsidy would and does take away my right to express my distaste and pull my support for something. I am forced through the NEA to support art I am disgusted by. My freedoms and rights have been denied me and I have been told by tacit apathy that I should sit down and shut up and hand over my cash.

No sir, I don't like it.

You don't have to like my opinion. And you did not have to pay for my right to express it. That is how it should be.

Amen: