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Hot dogs are NOT tasty when the inside is still frozen

Take comfort then, that those hotdogs hadn't been thrown down a hallway.

Christian Rock and Heavy Metal. Is there a sense of History?
1985 -2007 or Did it start with The movement Jesus Christ Super Star?
The topic : Christian Contemporary.

JCSS was a theatrical explosion/successful box office anomaly... and like all musicals, it inspired a host of 'not-so-talented' audiences...in this case, not-so -talented Christian audiences, who suddenly believed that if they 'willed" an act of their own, in the name of Christ, then it would somehow reach the ears of all souls, and lead to the salvation of many. (Very self-grandizing, in the wrong hands) .

Now, don't get me wrong... I am Christian and proud of it... But you ain't gonna catch me embarrassing myself (or the Kingdom of God) by inappropriately mashing the word of God with Metal (Which, ironically...has been associated more often, with satanic cults) .

Its not that metal is bad, or that that the word of God is bad... Its more like, Try powdering your Capn' Crunch Cereal with heaping spoon fulls of penicillin. The epicurean nightmare that results from that combination is enough to get consumers to denounce both, the cereal and the medicine.

So, what I'm saying... Christian + "Musical Genre" is not only philosophically inadequate, but it's also an absolute smack-down on the aesthetics of musical art form.

My Advice to "Christian" rockers... Toss the Psalms conversions, and simply proclaim yourselves as musicians, (who happen to be of Christian faith). I suspect you'll get better reception from the world. Also understand, that If I'm throwing back the bible that you pitched at me from the stage, its not the word of God or Jesus Christ, that I am rejecting... It's your lousy act...

I respectfully disagree with you. For me, the genre is about how you connect. The message is what you connect with. I'm a Christian and I love Christian Rock. If the message is clear and driven through Biblical passages, I don't understand how it "embarrasses the Kingdom of God". Everyone has their own preferences in music. My inlaws won't listen to anything unless it's from a dusty old hymnal. Nothing wrong with that, but it puts me to sleep. I personally like something a little more progressive and fast and loud and whatever. I worship how I worship and the only one I have to answer to is God, MY personal Lord and Saviour.

Randy

Not to be critical of anybody's desire to worship... I just think that White Christian rock falls way short of being worthy of representing God's message. Too many people in it pretending like they are somehow the chief ambassadors of God... that somehow, "Thine axe beith the rod of Moses and Yeshua...made of woods smoother than the cedars of cypress..." and that only "they" could possibly represent the word of God better than any other genre. Its so arrogant, , that they call it "Christian Rock" To me , that's B.S. ... Rock is Rock, period... , Calling it anything else is just another way hiding behind a very narrow choice of topic"
Bob Dylan's "Gotta Serve Somebody" Speaks VOLUMES about the glory of God... and our roles for him. and yet Dylan's song is not a "Christian Folk" genre. Its 'Folk'.

Have you ever attended a black/gospel Choir church service? Try walking away from that without your collar being twisted up ...If that stuff don't move and get a person jazzed up like a caffeine overdose... then I'd say they should get a coroner and check themselves for a pulse..

Again Not criticizing worshiping,, just saying that Metal and Christ fall way too short (IMO)

Cool, I respect that. Really the question is, where do you draw the line? Again, I've seen many of the old frozen chosen people in church just about need oxygen administered the first time drums were allowed. Even when taking a traditional song and adding a <sigh> electric guitar and drums to it, it suddenly becomes "satan's tongue".

Anyway, we disagree. Thanks for keeping it civil.

later,
Randy

You did however criticize worship.
Or at least how some choose to go about it.
You, of course, have that right, and I appreciate the freedom of expression.

God's children are individuals and how they choose to interact with the world they are in will be individual. As will their relationship with the father be different.
Spirituality can run shallow or deep irrelevant of "style " of its outward expression.

I've played our GODROCK for congregations that contained people of many races and generations.
Some danced in the isles.
Some plugged their ears.

Most all still have the wisdom to recognize that a music mission will not appeal to all. And reached into their pockets generously to support it.
Even if they did not understand it.

You did however criticize worship.
Or at least how some choose to go about it.
You, of course, have that right, and I appreciate the freedom of expression.

God's children are individuals and how they choose to interact with the world they are in will be individual. As will their relationship with the father be different.
Spirituality can run shallow or deep irrelevant of "style " of its outward expression.

I've played our GODROCK for congregations that contained people of many races and generations.
Some danced in the isles.
Some plugged their ears.

Most all still have the wisdom to recognize that a music mission will not appeal to all. And reached into their pockets generously to support it.
Even if they did not understand it.

Nope SANs ...
I do not criticize worship. But I do often criticize the quality of it. (Its why God allows for Prayer in silence, i think...because other forms are subject to this kind of a discussion)

Before anyone says that its no one's place to criticize the quality of worship, let me just say this... Out of personal deference for my father in Heaven, I am rather compelled to NOT disgrace him with my poor efforts at dissonant or overly consonant sound. Mozart, the pioneer of the classical Form of Sonata, which seemed connected to the church, claimed that his work was an exercise in jubilee and celebration... (Not of Worship)

In short, Even a guy like him was very cautious to insist that his expression was necessarily worthy. In fact, I would submit, that any earnest worshipper would actually strive to extract the only suitable music, which surely comes from, none other than heaven itself.

So I'll ask you... What exactly are you bringing to God's table, with your metal rock?

We give a child his/her first bottle of formula, because, among things, we know it makes him/her happy, AND keeps him/her healthy. But that does not mean it is suitable to us, the parent, for our own consumption.

God Gave us the Metal Rock... Enjoy it, savor it , but do you really think for one single moment that you are doing GOD any favors with it?

Having said all this... (Sorry for being long winded) , hopefully you understand now, my point of view about quality... I just cant find it in metal Rock for something as great as God and Christ. All I can do... is sing my petty little formula, and give praise to God for gifting me that much..., more importantly, for giving me a supper (salvation) that I didn't have to sing for.

Well, actually, you did. You are clearly judging others for their personal form of worship. Be it playing the music, or listening to it.

Once again, when you go to sleep at night, you only have to answer for YOURSELF, to God. Just like everyone else. So...who are you to judge others?

Randy

PaperDog
Your points on the validity of some worship being more for show than a true worship are valid.

I will make a distinction however.

Prayer ... supplication to the Father, and worship ... making a loud noise unto the Father are two separate actions.

It's human nature to attempt to qualify and thereby pass judgment.

That is precisely why we are warned away from this action.

Rock is to me the ultimate expression of my soul. And thus suitable unto the Father.
( I have my doubts about Southern Gospel )

Great discussion however.
Introspection is good for the soul.

Well, actually, you did. You are clearly judging others for their personal form of worship. Be it playing the music, or listening to it.

Once again, when you go to sleep at night, you only have to answer for YOURSELF, to God. Just like everyone else. So...who are you to judge others?

Randy

Technically Randy, I'm not Judging... really... But I will admit that I am uncomfortably critical of others... I don't mean to be... At the end of the day, If its Metal that makes you feel right with God, then that's all that really matters. I'm just the guy who gets picky about the shoes we wear to church That's all...

PaperDog
Your points on the validity of some worship being more for show than a true worship are valid.

I will make a distinction however.

Prayer ... supplication to the Father, and worship ... making a loud noise unto the Father are two separate actions.

It's human nature to attempt to qualify and thereby pass judgment.

That is precisely why we are warned away from this action.

Rock is to me the ultimate expression of my soul. And thus suitable unto the Father.
( I have my doubts about Southern Gospel )

Great discussion however.
Introspection is good for the soul.

As I mentioned to Randy..I really am not judging... If I were judging, that would also mean that I would attempt an assignment of action on it (i.e Ban it, or set up barriers to its freedom. What I really am is just being very critical, scrutinous...But at the end of the day, I would NEVER stand in someone else's way to worship in the method they feel most comfortable with.... Like I said to Randy..I'm just that butt-head of a guy who expresses his pickiness about the shoes we all wear to Church.

I'm supposed to wear shoes ?






Though provoking discussion.


Thanks.

It's a bit wierd I suppose but I don't care for Black Gospel music at all. Nor do I like the hyms we labor through at church. While my own tastes lean toward hard rock and metal, for "Christian" stuff I really like North Carolina blue grass gospel. Don't know why since I'm not a big fan of blue grass - just hits my authenticity button I guess.

Thus Christian bands might come in two flavors - those of us who just happen to be Christians and then bands who are using their gigs and such for advocacy. I'm honestly not clear how I view that.

Martin Luther wrote many years ago He felt that a plumber who plumbed like he meant it, did his best and was honest with his customers, was honoring God with his work.

I feel the same about music. I get pushback from the familty sometimes since my songwriting is all over the place - some from the heart, some from out of nowhere, but never any praise music. (metal?!) But I believe a story well told, and music well composed is a way of praising God.

Talbot

Anyone whom has followed my story at all knows the the "praise band" was not my idea.
As a matter of fact, I was perfectly happy with no instrument at all in my possession, training / teaching feverishly in my MMA gym when Ray came to me and asked if I wanted to play guitar with him.

Now that I'm neck deep in it though ... I don't believe I could live as happily without it.

Yes God and Rock go hand in hand -For God created all music including metal - This is from the album Master of Reality and who do you think they are talking about "Master of Reality" hhmm it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
Forget about how record labels tried to market Black Sabbath listen to what they are singing about - This is music that praises and glorifies God
If you're into Satan go buy a Lady Gaga CD


Black Sabbath "After Forever"
(Tony Iommi /Ozzy Osbourne/Geezer Butler/Bill Ward)

Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love

Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?

I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve

Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.

In general discussion I put up my post, (Christian Rock, yea or nay). I think it is a tense issue. But I had some good responces. I think only stryper in the 80's made anything of Christian rock writing openly about God. Most of the classic rock bands and metal bands still to this day have never wrote openly about God or claim they are Christians. Christian inspired lyrics are at least a fraction of the minority in these bands libraries. Led Zeppelin. The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, The Beatles.
and other of the biggest names in rock have promoted the devil. not with every song but enough to get there point out. I believe these bands came out with these sounds, now Christians play this stuff, and some get angry if you bring the issue up.

Let em be angry ... LOL

Seriously though I love the sound and feel of rock music.
It carries power for me and has been with me my whole life.
( or most of it anyway )

It would only make sense ( too me anyways ) that if this was the " sound of my life " that the music I would create would be in the rock genre' .

We call our music "GodRock" more or less for the same reason we have band nicknames and other "inside jokes".
Because it is a pleasure to us and a big part of our lives.
Not because we are delusional about it being important to anyone else.

We just do what we do, because it's what we do.