This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

Topics specific to the localities in America.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

#146767 by fallintoinsanity
Wed May 18, 2011 1:04 am
Why the f*ck is it only drummers feel they should be paid for services rendered? Every time I meet a new drummer, whether it be in person, online, on a discussion board or through a craigslist type website, the first or last thing I hear or read is, what's the gig paying, or only touring bands reply, or my rates are low or some bullshit likt that. When you become a drummer, is it required to lose your grip on reality, where not ever new band will make it big and earn a millions of dollars a year. The music business is not easy to make a living off of, theres a hundred bands in every neighborhood that are all looking to make it big and have their music all over the radio, fact is looking at the percentage of bands that will even make it past bar shows, what? Three bands out of the hundred will make more then one album and not be heard from again? What happened to musicians who make music for the love of making music and having people hear them, and then worry about how much money they'll be making later, when all their sh*t is together and they've put the time into being something better. Its getting to be bullshit, you can't be paid right off it doesn't work that way, if it did, we'd have a lot more bands making it in the music industry, now wouldn't we

#146787 by jimmydanger
Wed May 18, 2011 3:30 pm
Generally speaking, the drummer has the most equipment to move and the longest setup and tear down times. They also need a van or truck in many cases just to move the kit. They do the most work when they play and often get hot and sweaty (the rest of the band does as well, but not at the level of the drummer). All of this must be considered when a drummer decides to join your band. I bought a small kit that I keep at the rehearsal space so that the drummer does not need to bring anything other than sticks to practice. That being said, you can find a drummer that likes your band enough that they will endure this stuff provided the band actually does shows and gets paid even a meager amount.

#146795 by ChaosZen
Wed May 18, 2011 7:33 pm
So it's an entitlement issue? The rest of the band doesn't have to invest money in amps, FX, processors, mixers, speaker cabinets, plug and replug dozens of cables and cords, et al?

The only guy who is able to stash a cooling fan nearby gets bunus bucks for sweating more than the guys under the spotlights without a fan? Nice way to segregate a band and in my experience, the inability to work together as anything more than a comercial arangement has been the leading cause of band breakups. You get what you make of it, so don't complain if things do not last with that sort of mentality. Having a throne doesn't instantly make you the king, a real band is like family, they play together, they get paid together and they succeed or fail together. If you're not in it for the music, then why bother at all?

#146801 by fallintoinsanity
Wed May 18, 2011 8:40 pm
I think if a drummer was just a drummer, he wouldnt be making sh*t without the rest of the band, and if a band didn't have a drummer, they wouldn't be making sh*t without him, so why does only the drummer feel he should b paid before the rest of the band, sure its a lot of sh*t to move, but if you have a drum kit ready for him, he wouldnt need to move anything, and I'm sure the drummer isnt the only one hot and sweat after a long gig or practice, so again, why should he be paid before anyone else, its a join effort, the drummer isnt the only one who makes or breaks a band,

#146815 by RGMixProject
Thu May 19, 2011 1:25 am
I'm a drummer but I write the checks, so I have no idea what your talking about. Sounds like a bands attitude as a whole could cure the problem if there really is one. I pay the lead singer extra for hair spray. :lol:

#146816 by fallintoinsanity
Thu May 19, 2011 1:33 am
I'm not talking about my bands problems, I'm talking about every drummer I try to pick up wants to be paid before were even writing songs or playing gigs or recording albums, I'm not paying somebody to walk into my garage play for three minutes then decide he doesnt like the sound and walk out, thats not the way I play the game, you wanna stick around, stick around and if we make it out of the garage you'll get paid like everyone else who put their time and money into it to make it something

#146820 by RGMixProject
Thu May 19, 2011 1:49 am
fallintoinsanity wrote:I'm not talking about my bands problems, I'm talking about every drummer I try to pick up wants to be paid before were even writing songs or playing gigs or recording albums, I'm not paying somebody to walk into my garage play for three minutes then decide he doesnt like the sound and walk out, thats not the way I play the game, you wanna stick around, stick around and if we make it out of the garage you'll get paid like everyone else who put their time and money into it to make it something


Wow, thats really messed up. I'm with Crip on those drummers. Man O Man what a delima. Just keep looking, something will break open.

#146918 by Senior Jalapeno
Sat May 21, 2011 2:02 pm
I'm a drummer/percussionist and I want to be paid for taking the time to read this string.

No - in all seriousness they're some valid and not so valid points being made. First, are they big dollar gigs or paid rehersals being lined up that he wants more bucks to come to? What is the experience levels of all the musicians, are they congruent, or are you trying to land the drummer who just did the last session for a major/minor recording artist or plays big dollar casino or club gigs?

I was paid once for rehersal time spent with a reggae band that was part of a small label. The paid rehersal money was low ($20.00) and the band leader took every opportunity to berate, criticize and chastise the musicians, reminding us we there on his dollars. It was one of the worst punch clock jobs I ever had with another tyrant for a boss.

As a commecial fisherman, I would reserve the right to set my fee and equipment for hire at my chosen rate, why should it differ for a working musician of some demand? You then have the right not to hire his services and choose a cheaper fisherman and vessel.

If he costs too much, or more than an equal cut of everything, then he's probably not the right drummer for your band. But on the otherhand, if he isn't the copywrite holder of the melody or lyrics to your original music and just contributing his (IYO) mundane drum parts , are you gonna give him an equal cut of your hard-earned Publisher's royalty checks?

I charge $25.00 an hour for lessons, but I rehearse with my band(s) for free and take an equal cut of all gigs. I was once stiffed by a band in a sit-in situation (there drummer quit at the last 2 weeks before this gig), because they only made as much money at the door as what the sound man's rate was. They stated he brought his equipment and set up, I stated, "so did I." They stated, they couldn't have played the gig without him, I stated, " you couldn't play the gig either tonight without a good drummer." I also earnestly and prophetically stated, " it takes a lot more time and talent to learn to play drums correctly than it does to turn the knobs and bring the sliders up and down on a sound board." Now - In you opinion who should have been paid first - a working member of the band or the sound technician? Opinions will and should vary.

Peace,
El Peno'

#146945 by fallintoinsanity
Sat May 21, 2011 9:10 pm
in case you weren't paying attention, ill repeat it for you
I'm not paying a drummer before the band has even started, its not happening, I don't sh*t cash, so my main concern is not finding somebody who thinks he should be paid not only before anyone else, but before the band itself is even making money, I don't care who you are or if you believe your time should be paid for. A band is a band for a reason, because every man or women involved had all spent money to have the equipment they have, and have all used precious amounts of time to have the talent they have, No man should be paid before anyone else, the band makes money and earns success together, so why do drummers feel their more important then everyone else

#146953 by Texdrumr
Sat May 21, 2011 10:43 pm
Wow. You mean I could get paid to play the drums? Being super green to this, I'm almost willing to pay someone just to listen to me.

-Randy

#146954 by Texdrumr
Sat May 21, 2011 10:45 pm
In case this subject is too serious, my "willing to pay" comment was a joke. The band that I just joined, which is currently a 3 piece band, splits everything equally. Works for me.

Randy

#146972 by PaperDog
Sun May 22, 2011 2:00 am
fallintoinsanity wrote:in case you weren't paying attention, ill repeat it for you
I'm not paying a drummer before the band has even started, its not happening, I don't sh*t cash, so my main concern is not finding somebody who thinks he should be paid not only before anyone else, but before the band itself is even making money, I don't care who you are or if you believe your time should be paid for. A band is a band for a reason, because every man or women involved had all spent money to have the equipment they have, and have all used precious amounts of time to have the talent they have, No man should be paid before anyone else, the band makes money and earns success together, so why do drummers feel their more important then everyone else


Its my understanding that if someone belongs to musicians union for example, that member can demand and get paid just for showing up. It gets stupid when a guitarist has to wait for a union crewman to string up his instruments (if that's what the contract calls on) Therein lies the rub...CONTRACTS Its seems really the only leverage that a non union musician has is contracts

If the sound man is getting paid before anybody else...that's an issue of contractual agreement (or disagreement) . There are no rules on what a viable agreement looks like...so common sense is the typical approach (within legal frame work). I would say, if you are really tight as band mates, you know.. inseparable, live & die for each other... The sound-man should pick up on that (and let no sound-man put asunder what Lord of Guitar almighty hath brought together...)

Getting paid as a band is commonly referred to (in some circles) as a draw against operating cash /money that is used/budgeted to operate the band's expenses. If it costs 25 bucks in gas a night to haul the boards for the sound-man...That's an operating cost, and its the first entity that needs to get paid. So if Sound-man pulled cash out of pocket, he should get that back BEFORE any other payments are disbursed. From there, it trickles down to draw. With luck, each member , including sound-man gets equally divided sum.

Then you repeat this again and again. Until one day, Warner Bros knocks on your door and writes you a big, fat juicy check as an advance for a binding contract obligation to poop out material for publish & release.

I'm looking for a bass player..and i get this guy one day who starts in on me about getting paid. Now, I have no objection to paying the help. But My ad specifically pointed out that the project was not a paying gig. So, he lectures me about paying plumbers...so pay bassists, etc. Again I did not disagree with his point...However, I was offering him a ground floor opportunity, Artistic Membership to a great little band..and I assured him that recording was NO COST to him. I also reminded him that if the CD sold, he's get his fair share... Basically I was asking him to invest in a cause and take a risk. He blew it off and moved on... No Hard feelings... but while I'm certain he's gettin paid somewhere now... I'm not sure his life or musical career has improved for it. Oh well ... The search continues.

#147000 by fallintoinsanity
Sun May 22, 2011 11:01 pm
what I'm talking about is the fact that I recently started creating a new band, and can't find a drummer who wants to be paid like everyone else, my problem is,all drummers i come into contact with seem to want to be paid before the band has even gotten off the ground, this isn't an easy industry to get into, with a band on every street in every neighborhood who wants to make i in music, not every band is going to make it big in music. Me personally, I don't have cash at my leisure to hire somebody who thinks their the most important part of any band, now as I'm not saying their not important, as all parts of the band has their reasons to be there, I'm saying if were not making money, why should the drummer be paid just to walk into the practice room.Yeah I'm sure its a real pain in the ass to carry your equipment around, but everyone has equipment to carry, and trust me and 400 pound amp is no easier to transport then a drum kit, in fact, i've done both, and i have to say the drums were easier to get in and out of a car, and also easier to maneuver. And If there are people like me, who have a drum kit available at the practice point for new drummers, then their not carrying a damn thing, their just driving to practice, and I'm aware of gas being expensive, but thats a risk you take when wanting to be a musician, its all about putting out money first, and getting what you put in and lots more when the time comes, It takes money to make money, especially in the music industry

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests