General Music Chat

Rats! AMS will only allow three payments. Sweetwater has those at 250 watts as well...that's 100 watts less than I want. There's cheaper amps that are louder, but I wonder how they hold up. Will 250 hold up?

I really got some decisions to make. How are the GK, SWR, and Peavey combos? Do they compete with Hartke?

5KV. 1,000 watts? Not sure if I'll need that much yet. I would be playing bars mostly. Of course, that much power would sure be nice...if I had the $$$ to buy it.

Here's what I got so far: Get a 15 for sure. Makes more than sense to me know. The 15 I'm using had to be turned up to 7 last practice.

Thanks for your advice guys!

This article says differently about speaker size.

http://www.houstonbasslessons.com/amp_buying_guide.html

Alright Krul, lets do a little homework first. I am a guitarist and don't play much bass but I'm also a sound geek and studied this stuff quite a bit in physics classes. I also learned to trust my ears. Remember that this advice is only worth what you paid for it and I don't give refunds. If you find any of this useful... cool.

Who are the bass players doing similar music style that you really like? What are they using? Most of the hot metal bass players I know use either Mesa or Ampeg SVT and a 410 or 810 cab. They are going for punch over really deep (30hz) notes. When they want to reproduce everything they use the direct out so they can lean on the house subs for that bottom 1/2 octave.

How much do you want to spend? Obviously you want to get the job done without pushing your amp to the brink of death every night, but don't want to cart around an entire storage unit full of sound. Really deep bass (30-40hz) is very expensive if you want it loud. Big cabinets, and big amps.

If I were getting a bass rig to play in your band I would look hard at a 400w head and 410 cab. This will give you plenty of power and a lot of metal tone and punch. It also has the volume and image necessary to compete with a Mesa recto stack and a big double bass drum kit. If you want to add another cab you can always do that when the gig money starts rolling in.

I would shop used through craigslist and find a suitable rig for 40% off retail. A lot of guys buy way too much gear, get kicked out of the band and need rent money. Deals are out there if you look. Play through it for a while. If it sounds like he trashed the amp, just walk away cause he probably did. If it sounds like new, buy it. This might work:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/2343981268.html

There you have my $.04 Hope it helps some.

Johnny, I'm on the same page as you at this point. After looking around and seeing that two speakers weren't going to cut it, I was a little disappointed. None of the catalogs I looked through had the amp in four speaker cabs. Well, I'm glad to say that I found out they actually exist...and for about a hundred more than that cab you posted from CL.

Here it is! http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... C4Q8wIwAQ#

MAN, that's a lot of text! Anyways, I started looking through Ebay and didn't find anything I really wanted. I've always liked Hartke, and this model sounds great...I did a lot of homework on this item.

If I get the gig without the possibility of getting replaced by former band members then I'd be glad to get it. And who knows, I may find something I like better than the Hartke in the near future. That SWR was really cool.

EDIT: I'm thinking a head and a cab would be a better deal overall...if I can find one in good enough condition. I'm not dead set on anything.

Your 0.4 cents was very valuable!

No way. 10's just can't deliver no matter how good they are against 12's or 15's. Unless you roll off all the bass. But I guess the best way to find out is to try it.

Okay, this myth needs to die.

I've compared my 6x10 cabinet against 15s and 17s. The tens do a better job of reproducing the lowest lows, are tighter overall and are loud enough to be a problem in small venues.

15s I can see. If they're good quality, they can hang. 17s are just mud and distortion.

IME, 10s are actually superior to 15s or larger. But...

...2 10s are not gonna cut it. I have a 6x10 cabinet and a 2x10 cabinet. The 2x10 cabinet is currently being used exclusively as a practice amp. It just can't handle the power needed to get the lows out there.

My 6x10, OTOH, is a sweet sounding cabinet right down to the lowest notes on my five string, even when I had it tuned down a full step.

Having said all this, my 6x10 cabinet was not cheap. I think it was around $1200.

Sweet! That Hartke 410 looks perfect. A pro rig for clubbing and it wont break the bank.

aiki_mcr,

"Okay, this myth needs to die.

I've compared my 6x10 cabinet against 15s and 17s. The tens do a better job of reproducing the lowest lows, are tighter overall and are loud enough to be a problem in small venues.
15s I can see. If they're good quality, they can hang. 17s are just mud and distortion. 15s I can see. If they're good quality, they can hang. 17s are just mud and distortion."


Are you mixing apples and oranges? Wasn't the topic about 2 10"s? And now you say 6 10"s are better than a 15". How MANY 15"s?

Hmmmmmm , So are you comparing? 6 10's with 6 15's? Personally, I'd still take 6 15's over 6 10's. But I guess it comes down to personal taste. I would love the subsonic boom of 6 15"s beating your brains out on idle.

I played bass back in the dinosaur ages, I used a Sunn Model T head which I still have and two cabs an 18inch and a 6x10. It was loud enough for a couple of guys with Marshall stacks, in fact they always told me to turn down.

K if you dont mind looking at old gear and can find a Sunn Coliseum bass head, you would have all the power you want and then match it with some good ole cabs. Ive seen these old Sunn heads on CL and other places for less than 100 dollars. Of course then there are ampegs, Imena that old SVT tube head and a 8x10 cab would still hang with anything on the planet, but they tend to be expensive.

The older Acoustic Amps were good also, any of you bassist remember thier old folded horn 18 cabs? talk about bottom

Anyway K dont rule out some older equipment that many might think are junk. Along that line of thought a preamp and a straight up power amp could make a good bass amp.

I am heard easily over my drummer and the latest guitarist we auditioned and all I am using at the moment is the Ampeg BA210. 220 watts through 2 10" speakers on a small stand.

For a little more bottom I have an Ampeg BA115HP 300 watt 15 inch combo but have been using that as a keyboard amp. The 210 has been all I need.

Bass is all about increasing sound pressure levels and moving air. the surface area of 2 ten inch woofers is roughly equivalent to a 15. The 10 inch woofers recover from lower frequencies faster and thus can produce cleaner tone for cutting. Less surface area on an individual speaker. So, a 210 or 4X10 combo is the best for a small set up.

I am all about Ampeg. I have played Mark Bass, Peavey, SWR, Hartke, Kustom and Behringer on stage. Ampeg puts them all to shame for punch, tone and power.

How MANY 15"s?

Hmmmmmm , So are you comparing? 6 10's with 6 15's? Personally, I'd still take 6 15's over 6 10's. But I guess it comes down to personal taste. I would love the subsonic boom of 6 15"s beating your brains out on idle.

Okay, sure, I'm using 6x10s. Which does make the comparison a little skewed. But...

The biggest thing I've notices with tens that handle the lows is they don't handle the power. I can find fifteens that handle a lot more power. But given roughly equivalent cabinets (2x15s vs 6x10s or 1x15 vs 4x10s) the cabinets with tens in them perform better, sound better and are (bonus!) generally easier to transport.

This is from side-by-side comparison.

But there's also the specs. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I recall that any one of the drivers in my 6x10 cabinet will reproduce an even volume at frequencies that the 15s start to roll off severely. Distortion characteristics for the tens are better as well...at both ends of their usable spectrum.

Fifteens are not useless. Good quality fifteens do perform reasonably well. I can't be bothered with seventeen or eighteen inch speakers. Unless you are really driving them hard, they don't really perform well at all. Pure mud.

But it isn't just the drivers that matter. For fifteens to really perform, the cabinet needs to be large relative to the size of the drivers, IME. Tens can perform well in a much smaller cabinet. I used to understand the physics involved in that, but I haven't used it enough years that I've forgotten it all.

All this being said: a 2x10 cabinet is, IMO, too small a cabinet for anything other than practice. But it's a little difficult to be sure since my is rated for 350 watts and I'm pretty sure I at least once drove it beyond it's rating. The drivers have never really been the same since. My 6x10 is rated at 800 watts or 1000 watts depending on which spec you read (I believe the 800 number, personally).

Apples to oranges? Well, sort of. Except that you really need to compare the cabinet as whole. The "speakers" by themselves are only part of the system. I've also taken drivers which sounded great in one cabinet and put them in a different cabinet where they sounded like crap and vice versa. Oh, yeah, and there's the quality of the drivers to consider.

If you want a valid comparison, you can't focus on the drivers alone.

Yeah JW, I would LOVE to get my hands on a Sunn head! Those things sound awesome. I'm still hunting.

As far as getting 2x10's, I'm gonna have to pass and go with at least 4X10's at 500 watts at least. The drummer for the band said thatI'll need something loud enough to play the clubs that don't run bass through the PA systems.

I like the sound of 10's because of the punch and sharp sound. Down the road I'll get another cab to add a little extra POW in it...either a 15 or just two more 10's.

When I get sponsored and start playing Madison Square Garden then I'll have no more equipment issues involving $$$.

This is an old picture but this is what you need for your bass!



If you look on the bass side there is a 2x15 Sunn Cab and thats a Sunn Coliseum Bass head on top of the Hartkes. Our bassist picked up the head and cab off of CL for $150, he wound up selling them for $250. All Im saying with this is dont discount older equipment. Lots of folks bought this dinasaur gear years ago and have it in a closet. Who knows what you can find if you really make a search for it.

As far as getting 2x10's, I'm gonna have to pass and go with at least 4X10's at 500 watts at least.

I'm going to recommend you look at the SWR Goliath cabinet. It's the 6x10 I've mentioned in my previous posts. I run it with a GK700RB head rated at 350 watts. My cabinet is a 4-ohm cabinet, but the cabinet comes in both 4 and 8 ohm configurations. The 8-ohm will require a larger amp, but most amps have a minimum impedance of 4-ohms, so having the 8-ohm cabinet will give you more flexibility.

All this being said.

My GK700RB through this cabinet is loud enough to play an outdoor gig with a *very* loud guitar player (two of 'em, in fact, the last time I did it) without going through the PA. The cabinet is rated at 800 watts. I think it would be stupid loud with that kind of power (though I've been tempted...).

I can get all the lows I need out of that cabinet, even with my five string tuned down a full step (A-D-G-C-F). If anything, it's a little too boomy for some of the rooms I wind up playing.

But the best part is that it's actually smaller and easier to transport than some of the better quality 4x10 cabinets I've looked at. Not lighter, sadly, but it would fit in the back seat of my old 1994 VW Jetta.

IME, it's best to get an amp that has more power than you need so you never drive it into clipping, then get a cabinet that will handle at least 30% more power than the amp is capable of pushing. That, I think, is the real key to getting the boom you want.

I can remember when the PA amp was a 10 watt Bogen with two mike inputs. The speakers on the club wall, for the modern Bogen system were comprised of two 8" speakers mounted on the wall. The guitar player had a 10" 5 watt amp, and the bass player played an old dog house bass.

Life was far less complicated back then.