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#144433 by Slacker G
Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:49 am
Any music written to edify ungodliness or to appeal to the desires of sinful man would would be satanic in nature wouldn't it? After all, music is best used for propaganda.

According to scripture, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

That being the case, wouldn't any music to entertain sinful man be satanic in nature? If music is inspired, wouldn't it edify the one inspiring it? Carnal man writes music appealing to his nature because it pleases his father, so wouldn't the Godly man write music to edify his God?

Sinful man hates God because it is the nature of sinful man to hate god. It is written He who loves the world hates me.

No need to flame. These are questions, aren't they? :)

#144449 by Etu Malku
Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:28 pm
SirJamsalot wrote:
Etu Malku wrote:I would completely disagree with your statements about worshiping Lucifer (Luciferians worship their Higher-Self), none of this is about the christian Sin of Lust either, perhaps Indulgence as Anton LeVay spoke about.

Personally, I was never interested in many of the "Rules" that some of these organizations put forth.


There are two types of Satanists - those who believe in and worship Lucifer, and those who don't, but associate themselves symbolically with Satan, albeit everyone seems to have their own definition of Satan. If Satan isn't Lucifer to you, then I guess you have a symbol of anti-something that you identified with?

I'm curious what that something was? I'm not trying to spark an argument - it's a real curiosity to me that you would say you came out of Satanism, but say you were never interested in the whole imprimatur of it. What was the appeal for joining such a group?

peace.
Actually those who believe and worship Lucifer would be Theistic Luciferians. It is true that most satanists are not theistic, kind of a paradox I guess, I like to call them pragmatic atheists.

I don't have a "symbol of anti-something that I identified with", that is just antinomianism. Judging what is beneficial or maleficent to another is purely subjective.

My interests would be difficult to explain on a forum such as this, and to the majority present, suffice to say that I am not interested in what is termed Right Hand Paths (belief systems geared towards atoning with a deity).

Getting back to my OP, so I would assume that most music out there that dons the devil decor is really only using it as a prop? I find it odd that so many youths associate down-tuned, black death metal music with what they perceive as satanic rebellion.

#144451 by Etu Malku
Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:47 pm
Slacker G wrote:Any music written to edify ungodliness or to appeal to the desires of sinful man would would be satanic in nature wouldn't it? After all, music is best used for propaganda.

According to scripture, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

That being the case, wouldn't any music to entertain sinful man be satanic in nature? If music is inspired, wouldn't it edify the one inspiring it? Carnal man writes music appealing to his nature because it pleases his father, so wouldn't the Godly man write music to edify his God?

Sinful man hates God because it is the nature of sinful man to hate god. It is written He who loves the world hates me.

No need to flame. These are questions, aren't they? :)
What about all the musicians that are not Abrahamic (Christian, Judaic, Muslim)?
Music is "propaganda" to you? It certainly is not to me, far from being a tool to impose my beliefs on another.

Sin is another Abrahamic belief and has no bearing on non-Abrahamics.

Actually Sin is brilliantly explained by Professor Carl Jung:

"As the tradition of a Fall from the Garden of Eden' is an archetype. The Original Sin is Man's guilt of being carnivorous and lycanthropic."

We are all descended from males of the carnivorous lycanthropic variety, a mutation evolved under the pressure of hunger caused by the climatic change at the end of the pluvial period, which induced indiscriminate, even cannibalistic predatory aggression, culminating in the rape and sometimes even in the devouring of the females of the original peaceful fruit-eating bon sauvage remaining in the primeval virgin forests.

It was the 'clothes of skin' and the 'aprons of fig-leaves', that produced the nakedness of man, and not the other way round, the urge to cover man's nudity that led to the invention of clothing. It is obvious that neither man nor woman could be 'ashamed' (Gen. ii. 25) or 'afraid because they were naked' (Gen. iii. 10 f.) before they had donned their animal's pelt or hunters' 'apron of leaves', and got so accustomed to wearing it that the uncovering of their defenseless bodies gave them a feeling of cold, fear and the humiliating impression of being again reduced to the primitive fruit-gatherer's state of a helpless 'unarmed animal' exposed to the assault of the better-equipped enemy.

The uncovered body could not have been considered 'indecorous' or 'im-moral'. The very feeling of sin, the consciousness of having done something 'im-moral', contrary to the mores, customs or habits of the herd, could not be experienced before a part of the herd had wrenched itself free from the inherited behaviour-pattern and radically changed its way of life from that of a frugivorous to that of a carnivorous or omnivorous animal.

....................... from a lecture delivered at a meeting of the Royal Society of Medicine by ROBERT EISLER
First published in 1951 by Routledge and Kegan Paul Limited
Broadway House, 68-74 Carter Lane, London, B.C.4
Printed in Great Britain
by Butler and Tanner Limited Frome and London

#144456 by Slacker G
Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:14 pm
The fool says in his heart that there is no God.

To those of the Christian faith, it was mans disobedience to God, not his being carnivorous that caused sin to enter the world. The original sin was Adam choosing Eve over God that caused mans fall.

Without the spirit of God man can not understand the things of God. Head knowledge, and that being foolishness to God, is as close as man can get to understanding the living God.

But that is only what the Bible teaches. :)

#144460 by jimmydanger
Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:36 pm
Allow me to amend your first sentence:

The fool says in his heart that there is no God. The fool also proclaims to know that God exists. The wise man keeps an open mind, not wanting to be a fool.

#144473 by gtZip
Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:12 pm
jimmydanger wrote:Allow me to amend your first sentence:

The fool says in his heart that there is no God. The fool also proclaims to know that God exists. The wise man keeps an open mind, not wanting to be a fool.


Want to find god?
Look at your daughter.

Still doubt?

#144482 by bundydude
Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:29 pm
There are so many. I mean the genre's of black metal and death metal are loaded with so called satanist. Just to name a few; Deicide, Possessed, Venom, Bathory, Impaled Nazarene and on and on...Honestly, I'd be willing to bet that a good portion of these satanic bands play the whole thing up as a gimmick. Although, some of the church burning/murdering Norwegian bands leave me to wonder.

King Diamond, while he/they don't fall under the black/death metal banner, more of a progressive/power metal...claims to be an actual satanist...who knows? Couldn't care less...If the music's good, then I'll give it a fair shake, and if they are truly satanist, well then, more power to them, to each his/her own...I don't get involved in or with other peoples belief systems...nuff said.

#144489 by gbheil
Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:59 am
Etu Malku wrote:Oh stop . . . . :twisted:

Satan is a personification of the Judaic word al-satan or ha-satan (who borrowed it from the Persians' Shaiten) meaning adversary. The word is used more as a descriptive noun or pronoun. A fallen tree preventing a husband from getting to his injured wife would be considered a tree of shaiten, more or less.

Shaiten did not become Satan until much later where Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes who began referring to anyone not an Essene as the Shaiten. Still further on the Roman Christian church decided it was time to personify Shaiten into Satan and have Him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.


You asked for an opinion on a general public forum and I gave you mine.
You will eventually learn of your folly, playing dictionary to avoid simple truths.
I pray it is not too late when you do..

#144496 by Krul
Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:19 am
I knew this thread would either get buried in the pile, or get a lot of attention. Since we're talking about music with beliefs involved, well, of course it's going to go for a while. It's an interesting thread.

You could go so far as to say that Robert Johnson's music was satanic. I mean, he wrote songs directly about the devil,..not only that, but he claimed to have actually sold his soul at the crossroads at midnight. And if you don't think that story about the crossroads is true, then watch the documentary made about him from the 90's. His ex girlfriend, and her cousin and Johnson's friend Honeyboy lay claim to it.Back in the south, they did play with a lot of magic and often carried charms. So what really happened at the crossroads?

What genre can you really label as satanic though? None as far as I'm concerned. I think you can only look at the artist's intent behind the words, and really, the only way to know their intentions is to find out what they have to say inspired them. Cause if we go looking into someone's lifestyle here, then we're opening a whole new can of worms. There are so many musicians who look good to the media, yet live gluttonous lifestyles.

How far can you really dig to get a concrete answer?

#144499 by Slacker G
Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:57 am
jimmydanger wrote:Allow me to amend your first sentence:

The fool says in his heart that there is no God. The fool also proclaims to know that God exists. The wise man keeps an open mind, not wanting to be a fool.


No. Not just a sentence, a scriptural proverb. Not something I would say, but something I would quote. :)

#144501 by Chaeya
Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:20 am
I'm staying out of this debate; however, if I were a Satanist that promotes evil, I wouldn't hole myself up with a bunch of goths and death metal bands, I'd hang where I could get the most action.

As Al Pacino said in "Devil's Advocate" - "never let 'em see you comin'."


Chaeya

#144507 by Etu Malku
Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:17 pm
Chaeya wrote:I'm staying out of this debate; however, if I were a Satanist that promotes evil, I wouldn't hole myself up with a bunch of goths and death metal bands, I'd hang where I could get the most action.

As Al Pacino said in "Devil's Advocate" - "never let 'em see you comin'."


Chaeya
See, this is where the misunderstandings are, satanists are not evil, nor promote anything evil. It is from the Abrahamic viewpoint that satanism is evil. Of course all the nuts out there that belong to cults and wacko groups that commit atrocities in the name of Satan just help the confusion.

If I may add, within the Judeo-Christian bible you will find possibly 'the' most voracious acts of evil . . . in the name of god of course, yet there's not one act of violence from the 'adversary' Satan.

#144509 by Etu Malku
Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:20 pm
Kruliosis wrote:I knew this thread would either get buried in the pile, or get a lot of attention. Since we're talking about music with beliefs involved, well, of course it's going to go for a while. It's an interesting thread.

You could go so far as to say that Robert Johnson's music was satanic. I mean, he wrote songs directly about the devil,..not only that, but he claimed to have actually sold his soul at the crossroads at midnight. And if you don't think that story about the crossroads is true, then watch the documentary made about him from the 90's. His ex girlfriend, and her cousin and Johnson's friend Honeyboy lay claim to it.Back in the south, they did play with a lot of magic and often carried charms. So what really happened at the crossroads?

What genre can you really label as satanic though? None as far as I'm concerned. I think you can only look at the artist's intent behind the words, and really, the only way to know their intentions is to find out what they have to say inspired them. Cause if we go looking into someone's lifestyle here, then we're opening a whole new can of worms. There are so many musicians who look good to the media, yet live gluttonous lifestyles.

How far can you really dig to get a concrete answer?
I think Johnson counts as one of the musicians that just used the 'devil card' for promotion, I don't believe he ever dabbled in anything, though when I had the pleasure of backing up HoneyBoy Edwards in NYC's BB Kings, HoneyBoy mentioned that there was always folks around that did dabble in vodoun (voodoo).

** John Hammond Jr. was on thtis bill also . . .what a great guy and even greater player!! Those were the days!!

#144510 by neanderpaul
Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:16 pm
Etu Malku wrote: there's not one act of violence from the 'adversary' Satan.


Yeah, because trying to drag EVERY mortal to hell with him for eternal violence isn't violent at all. :roll:

#144512 by Etu Malku
Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:45 pm
neanderpaul wrote:
Etu Malku wrote: there's not one act of violence from the 'adversary' Satan.


Yeah, because trying to drag EVERY mortal to hell with him for eternal violence isn't violent at all. :roll:
You don't REALLY believe that do you? Do you think there's some horned guy with a pitch-fork in a red suit trying to claim your soul . . . how Dante's Inferno-ish! LOL

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