General Music Chat

I've listened to a lot of old stuff lately. I have to say that songs, if they are good enough, would be popular again. It's just that folks don't write the same as they used to.

It's like a catch up game. where someone does something new, and just because its new, everyone follows up with the same thing.

Isn't that how it really works, and not anything to do with companies choosing something over something else?

My thought for the day....

Good thread Chippy,
I think you are partially right. I think the main subjects that are written about
are the same but the details are all very different. That is the part
that has changed so much. Much of it has to do with the culture of the young.
The way young Love is written about nowadays is completely alien
to how it was written about a couple decades ago. People don't
relate to each other the same way anymore. The moral decline of
the young has affected everything. Have you ever heard someone
refer to their girlfriend as their whore, bitch. I guess it went from
ball and chain to old lady to whore. Go figure. People in general
get harder and more crass with every decade that passes. Please,
Thank You, Napkin in the lap, Elbow off the Table, Mouth closed When You Eat,
Opening the Door For a Woman, Letting someone in front of you in traffic,
Lower your voice in a restaurant, Respecting Elders.
These things are disapearing for sure. Most of it is due to bad parenting.

All of this will be found in writing, Music and Literary. It's all reflective
of society. You know sometimes I'm glad I wont be around too much longer
to see how bad society will evolve.

It's like a big ZIT FULL OF BADNESS.[/b]

AH the likes and dislikes of man.

It's about exposure ... the prejudgment of experience.

We don't hear, see, or feel like infants do at their first exposure.

If we were raised being told roses stink and cat sh*t smelled good, our women would put cat sh*t behind their ears.

And Valentines Day would be less expensive.

You know Chip some things really don't change. I turned on the radio and was hit with Hotel California. Not my favorite, but I would have to rate it as one of those really great songs ever written. How about Little Wing? How about Runaround Sue? Hey... HEY.... Keep away from me girl.... HA HA.

Good to see ya my friend.

There is still good stuff out there, but it's getting harder to find. I don't necessarily think it's all due to the decline of American society, really, though we certainly seem to accept more blandness than we ever did before, & in the arts, it's especially obvious.

The change we took toward genre-specific-ness has definitely affected music in many less-then-optimal ways. Trends seem to dictate what artists can produce, much more than the artist being able to ESTABLISH a new trend.

But, after the wonder years of the 60's through the 80's, we were bound to hit critical mass. There are only twelve notes, & only so many ways to arrange them before we begin rehashing it all. New rhythms, new tools, the manufacturing of synthetic music through cut & paste & sampling & computer-generated pre-programmed garbage has taken its toll on us musicians.

The younger generation has embraced shock value in place of substance, but, in their defense, there isn't much substance left to them. It's all been done. Some of them are angry about much that they face, & their bitterness comes out in their lyrics, in the angry tones they produce, while others try to adopt te technology without learning how to apply it musically.

Music has become so commonplace, so entrenched n our lives, that the new generations cannot but take it for granted, & cannot approach it wit the same reverence that we had developed in those golden years.

I think we need some new arts. Plays, movies, TV, music, painting, sculpture...at this point, we can only invent new ways to produce the same old. We have passed our peak, as artistic creatures. Perhaps that's why the bland & the shocking can be so easily accepted in place of substance & technical & creative mastery.

There are only three stories that can be told - man vs man, man vs god (or machine or corporation ot gov't), & man vs nature. There are only twelve notes. There are only so many frequencies that we can absorb. There is a limit to what we can see, taste, smell, feel & hear, & I think we've hit upon them all, & our vast media have made all of it instantly accessible. For this generation to have its own voice, it needs something entirely new, & I have no idea what that could possibly be.

Until they find it, things will probably continue to degenerate...

You can sell, succeed, and prosper outside the pop culture norms.

One problem is muso's are naturally competitive.

We ( indie musos ) could easily band together to form our own associations rent venues, sell out to crowds, tour and take over the airwaves.

But we don't / wont support each other, nor are we willing to take the risk.

You can sell, succeed, and prosper outside the pop culture norms.

One problem is muso's are naturally competitive.

We ( indie musos ) could easily band together to form our own associations rent venues, sell out to crowds, tour and take over the airwaves.

But we don't / wont support each other, nor are we willing to take the risk.

Speak for yourself. Punks do all that and more. DIY or DIE!

Was that really necessary mike ?

If you knew how hard Sans has been working and how much he and his band have come along in just the last year you would have more appreciation.

I think musicians are responsible for some of the mediocrity one encounters. How many times as someone told me I'm nuts for playing original? no money there, no gigs blah blah.

I don't fault the cover players but if someone doesn't write and perform originals they'll still be playing "taking care of business" in their gig at the old folks home.

New music must come from us.

cheers
Talbot

Really enjoyed reading this one, you all seem to have your finger on the pulse.
.
I'd like to refer folks to Klugmo's post . . .
Good observations, man.
. . . rather than the effect (bland music) - Klugmo has elaborated on one of the top causes of the present music scene.
People are different, now.
.
If you hadn't written that, Klugmo, I probably would've written something similar.
.
So - here's a rough outline of what I've seen to happen.
Music comes from people.
People come from society.
Society has trends (they just happen - like the hula hoop).
Companies want to make a profit.
Mass marketing media will make profits on the most popular trends.
.
I think that most people here are in general agreement to those points . . .
.
Keep in mind that most mass music is targeted at about ages 13 - 28 years old, more or less.
.
Here's two general age-related results of that, however:
> Older folks - anyone over say 30 - 40 - 50 - have grown up hearing a lot wider variety of music. And so, they are discontent with today's music.
.
> Younger folks - anyone from - say 22 - 30 - have just been around a few extra years than their younger peers. Just long enough to have a couple extra years of researching and listening to 'older' music.
And so, a lot of them are also discontent with today's music.
.
There's a class of people which isn't covered just by age, however: the folks who like a lot of the current popular music.
And - they are the majority, who drive the market.
.
So, the main category of listeners is the target audience, obviously. But, I don't think this is just age-related (13-27 or whatever).
The target audience also includes older folks who haven't had much exposure to other styles of music.
. . . AND anyone who just doesn't "know" music (there's a sucker born every minute).
And, maybe musicians who just really love only 1 or 2 styles of music, dunno . . .
.
There's going to be a whole generation of kids remembering today's bland pablum-music as 'the great oldies of their youths.'
.
There's a lot of folks who are unknowingly ignorant of the vast quantities of great music waiting to be heard.
.
Ingnorance is not stupidity.
The people who eat up the current bland music aren't stupid or mentally deficient or anything. They just don't know . . .
Ingnorance is just not knowing about something. (stupidity is choosing to be ignorant)
.
A lot of you guys here are helping to spread the word about good music.
You are all doing your parts . . .
. . .
Ummm ok, I think I've exceeded my alotted time . . .

If I said it myself. [/b]

I think the last line on this message is very telling, and I have to agree Klugmo. When you hear so many nightmare stories about band splitting up for no apparent reason, and when they are nearly all complete as a unit. It does make you think about, whether it is all worth it right?

There are some wonderful songs out there in netherworld, called the Internet. Some are listened to frequently, some really good ones, hardly at all.

I like to keep my nose to the wind as it were. It's good to know that there are some good tracks, posted by some very good bands, and solo artists. Some that I've heard, should really be up there on a chart.

Whether they will or not?

Good thread Chippy,
I think you are partially right. I think the main subjects that are written about
are the same but the details are all very different. That is the part
that has changed so much. Much of it has to do with the culture of the young.
The way young Love is written about nowadays is completely alien
to how it was written about a couple decades ago. People don't
relate to each other the same way anymore.

Well Chip, I guess I'll let this cat out from under the hat on your thread
because of what you just said. My balloon has been poped and for a reason that
really ticks me off. I have been involved with a small new label that
just started. I was found on BM and I found the other members of a country band I was asked to form on BM. All great guys that played well.
We had between us all the ingredients that would be necessary to have
success. Two great writers, an excellent and versital guitar player, very
good arrangement skills, a kick ass drummer and good vocals. The one
ingredient that became the fly in the ointment was the inability of the
label owner to let us incubate and record us correctly. He hired a very low end $35 studio with minimal equipment to record everything and I mean
everything in a foam room of 8x8. This studio was really set up to
record demos only. Between the guitar player and myself we had some very
good material that deserved better than that. We were told that contracts were to be presented to us before songs were finished
being recorded for 6 WEEKS. Over and over every week he would say "next week". This was a source of frustration for all of us. This
combined with wanting to record us in a shitty way and also some
other things I wont mention
caused turmoil. He didn't turn out to be who we thought he was.
His internet skills were cutting edge but his musical management skills
will be his downfall. So needless to say I am not associated with him
anymore.

Since our split I have gotten interested in the Blues vocal style. I
have been working with the guitarist on getting the original music we have
recorded correctly. We have the opportunity to work with a Nashville
insider with Very deep connections. I may try to find someone near me to work
with thats interested in putting some Blues together. In the mean time
it's forward 3 steps and back 2. Wish me luck.[/b]

Klug,

I hope it works out for all of you who are gigging. I don't think most of you who have a band thing going expect to make it in the BIG arena.

Musicians can follow the trends, or they can play what they want to play as musicians. Even if you follow the trend the odds are against you of making much $$$.

Why else have so many "teen sensations" sprouted form Disney? Or other teen platform infomercials disguised as TV programs aimed at the younger generation. Look at Disney, or Glee, or become a heart throb on a soap, or even be on American Idol. Ugggg And look at the exposure they get. Where are they now? All these years of TV, and where are the ones who came in second or third?

If you want to make it in the music business start working on a time machine that will tighten your butt and make you a teenager again so you can become star.

Or just enjoy the gift of making music with people who want to play what you do for the pittance the clubs will pay. Or just play for the enjoyment that music brings to you personally.

Nothing wrong in chasing your dream, but it will most likely turn into the music business nightmare that some who have made it are living.

Yeah. I am cynical. Sometimes life makes you that way. And if life doesn't, the statistics of the music business should. The ones who get all the money are those running the scam.

Don't get me wrong Slack, I am no wanna be. That would be rediculous.
I do want to sell the music that I write or sing though. It is possible
to do without the big labels and touring and hoopla. First and foremost
the music has to be good. Good enough to compete with whats on the
radio right now which is a varying opinion. Second it must be recorded profesionally at a high quality. The rest is distribution I believe and
some financial backing for marketing. This is just a long term goal.
Immediatly I would like to find some players in middle VA. that would
like a good singer to be part of their band that performs Country & Blues.[/b]