General Music Chat

Glen, you said " Think about it, 4 days compared to the 8 year war Iran and Iraq waged against each other."

What year are we in Iraq, now, Glen? Year 8.

Think about it - the cost to our ppl in dollars & cents...& our resources as we rebuild what we destroy...& American lives...& the health of our troops that are able to return home...& to our global standing...

America can't seem to win a war & walk away a victor, in any conflict. We still have troops in Germany, Japan, Panama, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, the list goes on & on. Can you say "Imperialism?"

As far as our troops are concerned - we have weakened them. They don't have the armor or the weapons that the contract killers of Blackwater & Haliburton, et al, have, Glen. Just who ARE we fighting for? Not the American ppl. Not the American Constitution. Not the American way of life, certainly. It's fairly obvious to us all that the American way of life is under attack by our very own elected leadership - you know, the corporate puppetry. Just delve into the Wikileaks a bit, & see what all the fuss is really about, & who & what is behind it all. It's fairly simple to determine what our leaders are doing, & for whom, & TO whom.

Imho, Manning may be an American hero, if his efforts actually amount to anything in the face of our gov't's propaganda.

My dear Glen, The reason we didn't go after Pol Pot and the others was because there was no money in it for us. Wars are about making money and gaining power. History much? We entered WWII because we were FORCED into it, not because we thought Hitler was a very bad man. The UN follows the loudest mouths and the biggest balls, namely us. Saddam's point was why the hell does he have to answer to them. The US wasn't exactly showing everyone their weapons of mass destruction. They were making everyone show their hands. The press painted Saddam as the next Hitler. Are you kidding me? They made up sh*t about how he tortured the people and so on. Hello, he's a dictator, they all torture people. He's a Sunni and they hate the Shi'ites and the Kurds, and vice versa. In all reality, the US was mad that Saddam didn't want to answer to them anymore.

The people were so blinded by anger after 9/11, they would have attacked any muslim nation.

I resent being suckered into a war using my emotions, I resent someone calling me anti-patriotic when in fact, I care what our soldiers are fighting and dying for. I don't believe in the For and Against spiel, Glen. I know they aren't meant to stand around, they're meant to kill, but not to appease a selfish loser who's in competition with his father. I resent Bush and his cabinet all being on the Board of Directors of every company supplying services and weapons over there at the time, which when they were called on their sh*t, they all quickly resigned and showed their tax earnings. Hello, rich people don't just file a 1040 and that's it. You file federal and state taxes FOR EVERY STATE YOUR COMPANY IS INCORPORATED. So of course it looks like they didn't earn that much money or anything from the war.

But I still love you, Glen, even if we don't agree on politics.

Chaeya

Chaeya , you missed my whole point. As many. War must never be taken lightly. When we commit our military to fight it must be for a very serious infraction that could lead to the total destruction of Our country. I would never call you "unpatriotic" for voicing concerns against the 2nd Iraq war.

Even now President Obama is faced with a similar situation in Libya. DO WE STEP IN AND TAKE OUT A KNOWN ABUSER, DICTATOR. The UN just voted we should do it. The Col. has spilled American blood. President Obama is faced with a very similar situation. Libya is also sovereign, just as Iraq was before the second war. My point is that you are totally right, you are just looking at it from a different view.

It is extremely Patriotic to voice an opinion that goes against the insensibilities of people that call themselves "Mainstream" both left and right.

P.S. I think you would be shocked at how close our views really are.

Glen - we kicked Hussein out of Kuwait because he was attacking them for drilling under his borders & stealing his country's oil.

Obviously, our armed forces ARE mere policemen, & have been thus since the Korean "War," if you look at the real history of it all. Our forces have again & again been used to ensure stale mates, NOT victories, in Korea (we were not trying to destroy the communist gov't in the north), in Viet Nam (we certainly weren't trying to destroy the North Vietnamese gov't), or in the Kuwait conflict (where we simply pushed Hussein's forces back until they stopped coming). Even now, after we HAVE taken out the first gov't since WWII with a military action, our forces are mere police, while contracted soldiers of fortune work alongside them, to the detriment of our economy, while the Reps cry about the waste in spending for NPR & PBS & culture & education for our ppl.

Reagan did far less than his predecessors in bringing down the Soviets, Glen, He just stood there & made fancy speeches & took all the credit for it. Oh, he put up a good bluff, too, but he didn't have the substance to back any of it up, while he armed our enemies in Central America & the mid east.

There were nuclear drills since WWI, Glen, worrying about the Soviets, but Reagan wasn't the guy that brought them down. Johnson & Nixon did the work, & Reagan just pranced around taking the credit. Reagan was the worst thing that ever happened to America, followed by GWB as a distant second. Reagan's actions will be what brings America to her knees, unless his actions are overturned, which isn't likely to happen at this point. It makes me sick to see him revered as anything but a conniving lying back-stabbing racist asshole who catered to his wealthy buddies to the detriment of every regular American citizen. He was the anti-christ. We may never be what we once were thanks to his bumbling bullshit & his sick way of giving everything away to those who would create the global economy without any restrictions which might benefit the health & welfare of the rest of us on this planet.

You mention Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, & Castro - what American leader took any of those rulers out? Not a damned one. We can't even take credit for Hitler, cuz that was a huge multinational effort. And for the rest, we simply sat on the sidelines & watched them destroy their people, like we did with Amin. In some cases, we even BACKED the regimes in the interest of American corp profits, like the recent Egyptian, or the Shah of Iran, or Noriega, cuz we wanted that cocaine in our poor neighborhoods.

The recent Republicans have proven to be the very globalists they used to accuse the Dems of being...& for what? Corp profits they claim will "trickle down" on the rest of us.

I'm sick to death of being trickled on...& false promises...& outright lies...& the protections of the few over the rest of us.

The biggest Lie you perpetrated here was was nuclear drills after WW1.
Come on man , this whole post is just filled with the other side of bull.

Instead of helping to end it you are adding to it. When is some one going to step up to the plate and end all this BULL . Both sides. When?

NUKES AT THE END OF WW1,, Get real.

That is / was no war.

I could have cleaned Iraq & Iran out in six weeks with control of our military powers.

There are no "rules of engagement" in war other than kill the enemy.

Never go to war unless you intend to go all out.
Then return fully to the ways of peace.

Well, general, when are you replacing David Petraeus?

Never... Not I, nor anyone whom thinks as I do, as a point of fact Mike.
Because a warrior would just kill them all and be done with it.
Or not at all.
There is no profit in that.

At the start of the Gulf War where we kicked Sadam out of Kuwait, Iraq had the fourth largest standing army in the world. They still had a quite sizable army in the recent Iraq war. It's NEVER a cakewalk invading another country. The enemy knows it's turf, every cave, every hill, every conceivable hiding place. The enemy also is always determined to evict the invaders. We talk about over 4,000 Americans killed in Iraq like it's a huge figure. Over 6,000 AMericans died on D-Day alone. At the Battle of Antietem in the CIvil War 20,000 Americans died. I'm amazed so FEW AMericans have died in Iraq.
War is HELL. The purpose of any army is to kill people and break things. It's pure HELL. We can argue until we're blue in the face about Iraq being the right or wrong war. I for one am very glad Saddam was hung by the neck until he cheered up. Millions of Arabs and all the Israelis are glad too. The Iraq war also created a huge staging area for American soldiers to continue our war against terror.
Whether you liked or hated Bush II he said that it would be better for Americans to pursue and fight terrorists over there than face them here on our own soil. There hasn't been a major terror attack here since 911. That's a FACT. There probably will be another attack, but we will be able to respond much quicker now that we have our forces over there.
Also Bush II said that creating a democracy in the Middle East might spread throughout the Arab world. The recent uprisings might be a testament to this strategy. If Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, etc. eventually become legitimate democracies it will be much harder for terror groups like Al-Qaeda to get a foothold.
War is HELL. Man has fought countless wars, most of which probably needn't have happened. All we can do is pray that some good comes out of any war. Maybe the Iraq war, as bad as it has been, may lead to some good.

Thank you for pointing out my typo, Glen. I meant WWII, NOT WWI - NOT a lie - an honest mistake. Gimme a little credit, eh?

I went back & fixed it.

ha,ha,ha,ha,,, Sorry I forgot every other letter on your keyboard is off by 1.

Bob, honestly, Kuwait, okay, I get that. But why after 9/11 should we have given a rat's ass what Saddam was doing that was worse than what was happening in Somalia and Burma. If anything, if we really want to go after bad people, try Burma. I truly hated the atrocities going on against the people there. Muslims, they fight all the time anyway, they've been fighting amongst each other for so long they can't even get over it. My attitude, not our problem. After 9/11 we should have been looking for Bin Laden, y'know the guy supposedly behind the terrorist attack. No, we had to detour into Iraq, WTF? And then tell me - "we're fighting for America's freedom." No you're not, you dumbass, you're fighting because it's profitable for you to do so, don't feed me bullshit behind it. America wasn't in any danger, the Iraqis weren't going to come over here and invade America.

America was mad because they hired Saddam to get at Iran and afterwards, he didn't want to be their putz. He turned around and told America to kiss his ass. So my attitude is, you hire a thug to do your dirty work, then you don't turn your back on him in the first place and expect him to act right just because you're a bigwig.

Okay, Glen, you got it.

Chaeya

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Okay, Glen, you got it.

Chaeya[/quote]

Free flubbers?

You have some very patriotic Ideas, don't ever be afraid to voice your opinion. If 300 million Americans say a stupid thing,,, It's still a stupid thing.

Bob is totally right, and at the same time he is totally wrong.

It really comes down to good flubbers, the only way to bring about world peace.

They definitely need more flubbers in Libya. It happened so fast, I don't even know how I feel about that yet.

Chaeya

libya? I know how I feel about it. The govt just borrowed half a billion bucks from the Chinese (to be paid back by my grandkids) to finance killing a bunch of people I'm not even mad at.

We are borrowing money to send weapons to darn near every country in the middle east who then use those weapons against each other while our leaders whine about "peace processes." It gets pretty sad.

Talbot

You know, you have no idea the hate that was directed towards me when I protested our decision to go to war after 9/11. I told Cisco that Bush the Bastard was going to lead us into war, something we didn't need. I was set upon by many spouses of servicemen as "not supporting our troops" or "being anti-American." Yet no one could see - Hey Bin Laden, let's go attack Iraq. Does that make sense? Yes, everyone cried. Uh, sure. So I shut up.

Bush - War - Yay

Bush - Anti-Gays - Hey let's vote him back in office

We love tyrannical guys with dumb f**k ideas (Ronald Reagan), given the fact that America needs to get over their love affair of sensationalism. The dumbass Tea Party votes in all the Republicans - the very people who stand against what they want. The very people who want to take care of their rich cronies.

To get anywhere in this country, we need to abolish the two parties and have just ONE and stop all this bullshit.

Chaeya

Whoa, whoa, whoa... don't diss Reagan.
I don't remember us going into war after war with reagan.

G. Dub was a far cry from Reagan.

You mean like his war on drugs? Reagan who toughened the laws on marijuana causing the jails to be overcrowded. One thing I give Reagan is that he scared the sh*t out of people.

Chaeya

You mean like his war on drugs? Reagan who toughened the laws on marijuana causing the jails to be overcrowded. One thing I give Reagan is that he scared the sh*t out of people.

Chaeya

He made a big mistake.
He thought he could cut down the drug problem by his war on drugs.
He didn't understand the problem fully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA0X4SliFJI

You forgot his war on the middle class by reducing the taxes from the top 10%. Then how he was the first to suggest that we join the global economy, which has none of the safeguards that we have in this country. Or his open-door policy for televangelists in the white house. Or how he was pushing for the privatization of so many gov't services, which invariably cost the taxpayer more, while lining the pockets of those private corp's that take over the gov't duties at such high costs.

Of all the presidents in my lifetime, he was the one who caused the most problems for the average American.

Mistake? His war on drugs was nothing more or less than a war on Americans & personal freedoms.

All his other "mistakes" have led us in a direct line to where we are now - under corp controls, bailing out the biggest as they invest the taxpayer $ we give them elsewhere in the world, insuring that only the uppermost elite among us reap any rewards, rendering our votes worthless, & legislating economic control over every American citizen, while actively working toward the destruction of every union to keep American workers from attaining any sort of power over their lives.