General Music Chat

First we are NOT a DEMOCRACY. Democracies have never worked, they only lead to mob rule.

I guess England ... doesn't count .. love the way you twist the facts Glen to suit or way of thinking.

and I'll dam well post what and where I want too ... I didn't get the memo on you owning BM

Paranoid f*ck Glen thinks everyone works at BM.

I would like to see the US break into maybe four countries. It's the only way I can see to keep the freaks in DC from bossing me around and buggering everything up.

And since I do not want to boss others around I prefer to have my own area where I can do what I please with out getting a certificate of approval from the half wits in govt.

I do not expect to die in bed, sadly...what's coming is going to come down hard. Those of us who work hard have been too busy to notice what those freaks have been up to and we let it go to far. Now is time to pay the fiddler.

Mankind is a flawed critter - whenever we form organizations the collective IQ of the group is equal to the dumbest member - the larger it gets, the dumber it gets. And the kind of people who want to be bosses are almost always the wrong ones - petty martinets or worse, do gooders. <sigh>

No solution - just have to deal with the chaos once in a while. This time we waited too long, that's all.

I don't obsess over it though. Just wrote a pretty decent tune, jammed with a guy last week and some more in a few weeks - keep plodding along and putting my thing together until the ball of wax comes undone.

Talbot

Splitting up is a terrible idea. It just gives the different factions an externalized enemy to go to war against. Don't you remember the Civil War? Somehow the collective intelligence needs to be raised. We need fewer idiots and more geniuses. Actually, a lower population, period, would help. Aside from eugenics or Hitler-like "final solutions" I don't know how that could be accomplished.

Glen - "after-tax household incomes of Americans from 1979 to 2005 (adjusted for inflation). The bottom fifth of poorest citizens saw their income barely rise at all. The middle fifth of income earners saw their after-tax household income rise by less than 25 percent. Meanwhile, the top 1 percent of households saw their after-tax household incomes rise by 175 percent."

"... the richest Americans have dramatically lowered their income tax burden since 1945, both absolutely and relative to the tax burdens of the middle income groups and the poor."

"...if the highest income earners today were required to pay the same rate that they paid for many years after 1945, the federal government would need far lower deficits to support the private economy through its current crisis; and second, those tax-the-rich years after 1945 experienced far lower unemployment and far faster economic growth than we have had for years."

"The lower taxes the rich got for themselves are one reason why they have become so much richer over the last half-century. Just as their tax rates started to come down from their 1960s heights, so their shares of the total national income began their rise. "

These are from an interesting article - http://www.truth-out.org/how-rich-soaked-rest-us68155

LOOK at the tax rates on the rich in the past, "when things were good," Glen. Then look at what we're dealing with today, & tell me how much better & fairer it all is. Note how the rich are investing their money IN OTHER COUNTRIES, NOT AMERICA, Glen, & tell me that we should allow this to continue, at the cost of the disappearing middle class & the growing poor.

Check this one out, while you're at it:
http://www.truth-out.org/how-koch-indus ... art-168141

Phil, I have tried to show you. The the basic problem is that this thinking leads to taxing the rich out of existence. That first article is so skewed and filled with lies, that the average dumbass is just going to say yeah let us all start stealing. After that, then where is the money going to come from? This article is just another way of getting class warfare going. No the real problem is OUR government is taking so much away from everyday people like you and me and wasting it, and then asking for more CONTROL, and then pointing at the job creators, and saying they are evil.

As far as the Koch thing, Lobbyist at all levels, CORPORATE, UNIONS,SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, can not be allowed to usurp our single vote. It opens the doors to abuse .

Mike , be nice.

Prevost , shut up. Remember king george came over here slaughtered AMERICANS in the name of his democracy. One vote His, against all the rest. It was mob rule that he owned.

You have a quick tongue and little understanding of the REPUBLIC our founding fathers put their lives on the line to form.

Glen, a 50% income tax rate, for someone who makes $50K per day, will not tax that person out of existence. The tax rates that were applied post WWII proved that very point, Glen, & the American economy thrived because of them.

These days, we keep talking about necessary cutbacks in gov't costs, like they ALL must come from public services & the rank & file gov't workers, while we continue to ignore the real problems. Are you aware of the outsourcing of the American armed services? Gimme a break, here - the corporate worker employed by Blackwater & its ilk make over 4 times what the American serviceman makes. Somehow, we started thinking that it would be better to hire these co's to do the job of the military, rather than to re-employ the draft to fill our military needs, while we fight these wars. Four to five times the cost to the American taxpayer, ladies & gents. Do you STILL think the waste is in our gov't workers? Who lobbied for this, I wonder? Who's getting kickbacks from the co? How deep is this corruption?

Obviously, if they had reinstated the draft, the war in Iraq would never have occurred. The ppl wouldn't have stood for it, except with a volunteer army, combined with the much higher paid ppl who WANT to be there, for the extra cash.

The states are no better when it comes to wasting your tax dollars.

In my state, a Workers Comp agent must attend meetings at the state capital once a month. These meetings, which cost the taxpayer travel, hotel, meals, and time costs, should & could be done through the web, or by phone. I'm talking THOUSANDS of dollars per year, per employee, who also must give up their time from their families to attend this sh*t.

You want to cut costs, by all means, I'm all for it. Just strip the system of the chaff & the CORRUPTION first, before you start taking away from individuals & services, when they are so sorely needed in these economic times. Cut the sh*t out FIRST, THEN start hitting te workers & the services, IF it's still necessary.

Phil , after WW2 there were no hidden taxes. There was no 9% sales tax. Property taxes were in reason to your mansion. Workers comp , social security, employee payroll taxes, taxes on essentials ,heat and energy, food, clothing were NON existent. Corporate taxes were lower than they are today, and even with so many soldiers returning , American corporations were allowed to boom and put so many to work. The result was a tax base grew through the 50s and 60s. So much so that most later year politicians felt the pot was so large that everyone should be living in a golden mansion. Or we can apply that to our advantage to remain elected. Unfortunately that was the beginning of the professional politician.

The whole point of this is that you and I pay way more in hidden taxes than any person making big bucks, and if it came down to outright theft of their cash it wouldn't put a dent in all the waste and corruption that has stolen more money from the average taxpayer , than Carter has liver pills.

Chaeya

Unfortunately that was the beginning of the professional politician.

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." ~ Ronald Reagan

I've been looking for articles on the cost of contracted military in Iraq...the most recent ones I've found are from 2008 on back. Ppl aren't even asking where the money is going, Glen, or the questions are being squashed in the interest of the contractors.

Here's one, from '08:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/washi ... ctors.html

Military vs contractor presence in Iraq is around 50/50, at this point, Glen. For every dollar we spend on an American serviceman, we spend 5 on the contractor. At this rate, this war, in personnel alone, is costing us 3 times what it SHOULD be costing us. Do the math. See the corruption. See how the war was shoved down our throats, & how it's affected our economy. See what it's STILL costing us in our own natural resources, as we continue to ship building materials overseas to rebuild that which we destroy. Watch the cost of building supplies rise. Follow the money.

At this point, it's not even all that important WHO's paying the most taxes - the problem is WHY THOSE TAXES ARE NECESSARY!!!! It continually comes down to the gov't being owned by the mega-corp's, & it works for THEIR interests, at the cost of you & I.

And WHERE does that money end up? In the pockets of those who OWN the corp's, Glen.

Tax the hell out of them! Charge GWB with treason & crimes against humanity. Ditto Cheney. Ditto double-talker Rumsfeld & Rove & the rest.

Note that, while the American service may not be used against Americans (yeah, right!), there are no such limits on these soldiers of fortune, & they are now gov't employees by proxy, since they are under contract. Blackwater was used in New Orleans, already, during the Katrina debacle. Who did they help? They helped Cheney & the rest of the stockholders, that's who.

You don't fear the corp's? You wanna save them from unfair taxation?

SCREW DAT! Get 'em the hell out of Congress & the White House! Tax the hell out of them for all the unfair returns they've been stealing from us! Throw them out of Iraq & Afganistan, & remove our troops from Iraq. Send them to Afganistan to FINISH the job they were sent there for. Find Bin Laden. Kill him. Destroy Al Qaida. Then get the hell out, & in the meantime, clean up the rest of our OWN corrupt gov't by passing clear, concise laws that label the corruption for what it is, & punish those who sell out our country for their own personal gain.

That, sir, is the ONLY answer to the problems that we face, & until we face it, we will continue to grow weaker by the day, & our lives will continue to be enslaved by those who believe themselves to be above all law.

World Economy is not of my concern. U.S. economy is. Take a look at anything you have purchased in the last month (discluding food). If you have the original packaging, I promise you will find an American title disclosure, but if you struggle through the fineprint, you may find a very camoflaged print that says "Made in China". Start with your guitars. How hard is it for you to see that you've been duped into buying Foriegn? No job?, Dont bitch. It Is Still a Fact that Americans produce the best. Next, look at your new car in your driveway. American "manufacturers" would love for you to believe these things are Made in America. You would be hard pressed to get me to believe that even 10% of any "U.S." made auto that we have bailed out Is American made. A solution to this would be twofold- Anything produced abroad would be conspictually marked at the manufacturers nameplate of packaging, and commercial advertising, and "American Manureafacturers" will disclose percentage of American/Foriegn made. Crunch.

Well said Phil, and probably the only thing I would have to add is that our government has taken so much from the average citizen, in the form of hidden taxes, deflected the main issues, wasted and corrupted a good thing.

The basic call going through liberal political halls is simple, we have taxed spent and wasted so much, that the average person can't afford it anymore. SO, lets make and take it out on the wealthy. Take all the money from the wealthy and it won't cover jack. The majority of taxes comes from the other 300 million people in our country. You and me and we are being screwed.

As far as the Iraq war. WHY THE HELL DIDN'T WE FINISH IT THE FIRST TIME ?

Phil,

Didn't I hear some time back (several years ago I believe) that the gov lost 6 semi trucks full of cash in Iraq? All in bills. Hmmmmmm. Did the guy in charge say something like woopsie and it was all forgiven? The last I heard no one had a clue as to where it went. The only reason I heard a thing about it in the first place was because Bush was pres.
You sure couldn't get the truth out of the media now days for love nor money.

2008 was an interesting time in our history, glad you mentioned that phil. What else happened in 2008:

Since I rarely watch network news and regard it with the same sanctity of the cartoon channel. This could be just old news and exhaustively covered to the extent of the lifestyle of Charlie Sheen and Wisconsin’s budget woes. I ran across a strange coincidence. The thing that bothers me a lot about this situation is I have never seen the two events even remotely suggested to be related, in any sort of text in the mainstream news media. Even though there is no stretch involved to connect the dots, since they are virtually on top of each other.

On Oct 1 2008 a new mission was decided and an allotment for 20,00 active regular army troops for domestic deployment. http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/ This is a permanent position to be fielded by troops rotating out of combat.

On the same coinciding date, began the bank bailouts Oct 1-3, 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008

In the original article they mention the trial deployment of non-lethal crowd disbursement equipment.

Correction:

A non-lethal crowd control package fielded to 1st Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, described in the original version of this story, is intended for use on deployments to the war zone, not in the U.S., as previously stated.

That statement was detracted. Needless to say, being contrary to the charade of benevolent assistance in response to an outside threat or attack. I’m always suspicious of governmental expansion of it’s powers. So I find it alarming when our government decrees a necessity for an on call force of 20,000 troops, at the exact same time an overwhelming desire to piss away our tax money. Oh yeah almost forgot to use some buzzwords. Um here “9/11” and let’s use “terrorism”. Cool, now it’s all ok.

In 2009 around twenty MPs from Fort Rucker were dispatched to Samson Alabama. Neither the Governor of Alabama or the President authorized their deployment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

On March 10, 2009, active duty Army military police troops from Fort Rucker were deployed to Samson, Alabama in response to a murder spree. Samson officials confirmed that the soldiers assisted in traffic control and securing the crime scene. The governor of Alabama did not request military assistance nor did President Obama authorize their deployment. Subsequent investigation found that the Posse Comitatus Act was violated and several military members received "administrative actions."[17][18]

I don’t remember any major network carrying this story either. Although I do find it to be more important than that bull that charged the stands in that rodeo, or the lady who jumped from a bridge to avoid a semi.

It’s not that it was a lot of soldiers, because it wasn’t. But if local law enforcement can get direct US military response, anyone of real and higher military authority could easily abuse such a situation. They are federal troops answerable to an open chain of command. They can deploy immediately without congressional, presidential, or even state authority (obviously). What’s to stop a general from grabbing a mere few hundred, well armed men and dissolving congress? Wasn’t putting the National Guard under state and congressional approval, supposed to be a fail safe to prevent this sort of situation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_States

“# The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 Pub.L. 109-364

Federal law was changed in section 1076 so that the Governor of a state is no longer the sole commander in chief of their state's National Guard during emergencies within the state. The President of the United States will now be able to take total control of a state's National Guard units without the governor's consent.[14] In a letter to Congress all 50 governors opposed the increase in power of the president over the National Guard.[15]

# The National Defense Authorization Act 2008 Pub.L. 110-181

Repeals provisions in section 1076 in Pub.L. 109-364 but still enables the President to call up the National Guard of the United States for active federal military service during Congressionally sanctioned national emergency or war. Places the National Guard Bureau directly under the Department of Defense as a joint activity. Promoted the Chief of the National Guard Bureau from a three-star to a four-star general.”

Putting the available domestic military force back within balance, with appropriate congressional checks also occurred in January 2008. So having an available army unit under direct presidential control and without the oversight of congress, really seems to be a high priority. If congress won’t give the president direct control over the National Guard and all fifty governors opposed it (and why is that?), it seems the administration is just going to grab a private army of their own.

Was it to excuse our representatives from the responsibility of maintaining order, at the anticipated outrage and civil disobedience of the bailouts in 2008? In either case this agenda has stretched across party lines and administrations, the situation still exists. If you already have direct control over an active unit of soldiers allotted for the specific purpose of domestic deployment, you don’t need congressional sanctions to deploy them. The will of the people and the law is circumvented. If that’s not the purpose, then why have a separate force of soldiers who’s supposed goals are redundant to the mission of the National Guard?

Just about every major city has instituted an emergency response plan since 9/11. Necessary measures have been taken. Like searches and x-rays at airports, the overkill is just overbearing governmental presence and has absolutely nothing to do with the fictitious missions assigned to them. Searches at airports are not preventing terrorists attacks, that objective has already been accomplished. Even China suffers from terrorism, the level of stupidity to be 100% safe can not exists. As individuals we hold no power.

Separating the masses and keeping them isolated is paramount to maintaining a tyrannical government (“when”, not “if” it happens) and inhibiting a coordinated response. In addition to exposing society to governmental authority on an intrusive basis, to reinforce a behavior of compliance. Where is the outrage, demonstrations etc?

I am confused to the nature of the emergency that would require an additional 20,000 of regular army, short of repelling an outright invasion. The only other purpose that makes sense to me is to allow for the use of federal force, without congressional authority.

When the subject of wealth redistribution comes up, what supporters don’t mention is that the tip of the pyramid is also much smaller because of the exodus of the wealthy from our country. For the rich maintaining their wealth is a primary consideration. That’s one of the reasons they got there to begin with. Given a choice between being a resident of the USA and surrendering half your wealth, or living out of the country, which would you choose?

We are running a government on dollars, which has a huge investment in gold. If you wanted to level the playing field world wide, we have the largest gold reserves in the world. So if the greenback becomes worthless, the government will still weather that storm. Dollar goes down, gold goes up. Although our citizens and China may be disappointed in their useless investment. After hyperinflation hits they will issue a new currency based on the gold reserve. Preserving the elite class and increasing the gap between the privileged, lower and middle classes.

Every empire needs slaves of sorts and if a future dollar is worth less than pennies of today, that mission will be achieved. At the same time we screw the competing powers that are holding our debt. Both “opposing” political parties are following the same course. Even a mew few hundred billion will buy more than enough support. Just be sure to buy your gold with that, since those billions of payoff dollars have an expiration date. When a bank bailout gets paid back, it’s also with billions of interests. Any word on who’s counting the change and where the additional money will be applied? It might as well be monopoly money and in a few years it will be.

With the Middle East in turmoil, it’s become hard to tell who we will invade from the grab bag. There’s too much money to made. For real world conquest to commence we need to separate the morality of the common people, from controls over the government. So the future government of true totalitarian rule will have to take effect sooner rather than later. It’s time to stop pretending we are in control.

Scams like the Iraq invasion are hard to orchestrate although masterfully done, it was based on a credibility that’s already been spent. If we can invade and maintain an occupation across both parties, based on a known lie and with no consequences to the instigators, how far a stretch is it to just forgo the excuse?

Very well put, Lalong. Pretty scary stuff. Disbelief has become the normal cloud most people have their heads stuck in. Even I didn't know that. Now I have to check that out. Thanks.