General Music Chat

There seems to be a lack of musical threads on here lately.

Dajax asked about an octave pedal in another thread. Instead of giving him advice some members chose to question using effects or not.

I thought this might be a good discusion subject.

I love effects on my guitar, and on vocals. My main band is a cover band and effects allow me to cover songs better than without. When I go and sit in with bands I take a small 20 watt amp, a Les Paul and a tuner. I can play just about anything I want to and this will cover it. But for the Aint Yo Mama band I like effects for textures in songs and also to allow me to stretch out with different tones and colors in the music.

My chain runs like this. Wireless into a tuner, to me a tuner is the most important thing to have in a guitar chain. I use the old tryed and true white Boss tuner. From there my signal goes to my wah wah pedal, a Bad Horsie II. Now I sometimes use it like a typical wah, but other times in say a solo I will mash it down and hold it to get a different nasaly tone out of my guitar. I push the sweep til I hit a sweet spot to make the solo guitar jump out of the mix. In lots of songs in say the chorus I will just stomp on it real quick to kinda get a wash to the tone.

I have an old tube screamer past my wah wah. I like this on my clean channel. Say a song like Simple Man Im playing a clean guitar part for the verse and instead of jumping on another gainer channel I just push in the TS on the clean. It has an altogether different sound than my gainy channels. Its a great lead tone that really cuts thru the mix better than another channel. I dont care for it much on the gain channels on my amps. To my ears it just mushes out too much.

I have a chorus pedal. I cant even remember the name. I have an old Electro harmonix Small Clone that i love for recording but live it seems to introduce too much line noise. So I got some no name pedal. I tend live to turn this thing all the way up and just hit it everynow and then to give that swoosh sound. I hardly ever just push it in and leave it.

Next is my Whammy II. This is an awesom pedal, a bit noisy but it is so useful. I mainly put this back in my pedal board for one song. RATM Killing In The Name. I see people say they can do something interesting in songs without pedals, but for this particular song it always sounded empty to me without this pedal. You can program 2 presets in this pedal. I have mine set for a one octave dive bomb setting. At the ends of many songs you slap the low E and give it a dive bomb. I use fixed bridge guitars so this is killer, without the tuning problems Ive had with whammy setups. The other preset is a 5th octave up. I use this for solos. Think Bad Company Cant Get Enough or Thin Lizzy Boys Are Back. I sometimes punch this in on slow lines in solos that dont have harmonys, just to thicken it up some. There are many other uses. The 2 octave up setting i use for Killing In The Name and also for my noise stuff. We play Whole Lotta Love and I can emulate the noise section prior to the guitar solo using this pedal and my delay pedal. I have an old original Whammy the red one, but it had a dial to change settings. The Whammy II has foot switches so you can manipulate it live, either between the 2 presets or bypass that and scroll thru all the settings. If youve never used one, I would suggest plugging into one sometime and see if it works for you. Oh yeah it also has a chorus setting where you can use the sweep in time ot the music. They are a bit noisy and you do lose some of your tone in this pedal, but it is a helluva tool to have under your feet.

The last pedal I have is a Line 6 Delay Modeler, the green one. Man this is a great pedal by itself. It can emulate all the old classic delays. You can load 3 presets. My main setting is an old echoplex setting. I set the repeats so tight that you cant distinguish between them. It acts as a sort of overdrive, plus thickens up solo lines giving it a fake doubling effect. It also has tap tempo. So durin a solo I can lenghten the delay repeats. For a slo lazy solo this gets those extra long repeats to fill up space. Then when Im done disengage it and your back to the original setting. My second preset is Reverse. I use this mainly for the song Give It Away by the RHCP. Once again you can use the tap tempo switch to get it in sync with the music. If your drummer isnt very consistent this tap tempo function is a must on a live delay pedal. I use this every now and then in other songs just to amuse myself. The last setting I have in there is what I call my U2 sound, you know the repeated decay type deal that the Edge was known for when they came out. We dont play any U2, but I find it fun to kick in the middle of a typical song and play with the tempo to change up the mood of the song. If you are looking at delay pedals this is a great one, very versatile. It even has a sampler function that can be used for up to 14 seconds. At one time I experimented with this to maintain a rythym while I played over the top, but damn after a few beers my mind dont think quick enough to do all of that.

From reading this you would think that my guitar sound is always drenched in effects. In reality I probably only have an effect on 15-20% of the time. The rest of the time its straight amp. On that front I use a Triple Recitfier. First channel set to a sparkly clean, 2nd Channel Vintage Rec and 3rd Channel Modern Rec sound. My current Triple has the solo function which allows for a volume boost with no alteration of the tone. Great for solos, or those one not low octave guitar lines that you want to stand out.

I just thought I would open it up for folks to discuss effects and thier usage, or not using effects. I can play all night with nothing more than a tuner and a wah and did for years. But playing in a cover band where we play for 4 hours a night. One or two guitar tones gets boring for me, and I would think it gets old to an audience too. I get lots of compliments from my guitar playing buddies who come ot see us, they ask me about the effects I use and how I did certain things, so for me they are essential to my live sound.

For the record I have been in 6 original bands thru the years and I used effects in those bands also, but I used them tastefully.

Have a Great Day

Sounds like an awesome setup John. The only thing I would do different is put the wah last in the chain (starting with tuner is smart). The reason I do that when using analog pedals is so the signal goes through the distortion and overdrive prior to the wah.

When you get tired of playing in a cover band move up here and you can play lead in The Farleys, that way I can just focus on the rhythm.

For quite some time I have vacillated on use of any effect pedals.
As most you guys know I have only been playing guitar since the NKF project began in 2005.
I started with Boss a TU2 their distortion pedal ( the burnt orange one ) and their black " metal " pedal straight into the PA.
I thought they were working great until I got hammered on my tone here on the boards thanks to Neanderpaul and others.
That is when I began to pay a lot more attention to the nuances of classic tones and how they were achieved with a lot of advice from you guys and research on my part I ended up with my beloved Carvin Nomad. And Shredd6 hooked me up with some tubes.
I tried a volume pedal for some time at the suggestion of Paleopete, but ended up just utilizing my tone and volume pots al la JW.
I have since learned to better utilize the soak and volume controls on my amp as well. A great combination for subtle changes of tone with my LP Goddess.
Presently on my board I have the TU2 - Dunlop Cry Baby - Amp.
I no longer even bother with the wireless, too many variables for me to deal with at the time.
I also have the foot switch for my amp on my board so I can turn on/off the spring tank reverb.
Adding or deleting reverb, increasing or decreasing the soak, using the wah or just kicking it on for a boost, my tone and volume pots, and variations of those controls is all I am utilizing at present.
We NKF have a simple straight forward sound.
Too many effects from me just seem to muck it up.

Thanks Jimmy on that advice I will try that and see how I like it.

George you bring up some good points. Some of the greatest tonal controls are right there on the guitar. I play with the volume knob all the time, I vary rarely just have it dimed unless Im really wanting to punch the front end of the amp. My Les Pauls have those t-500 pickups and they are very strong. I also roll off the tone control on my guitars for different tones.

Volume Pot Guitar-Rythym ussually around 2-4, then for leads I will open it up some.

Tone Pot Guitar-Bridge pickup ussually around 5-7, neck pickup 6-10

Another way to alter your tone is just how hard you pick and where you pick on the guitar, close to the neck or close to the bridge.

Dont forget the guitar as a effect device itself. We do another song Bulls On Parade by Rage, I turn off the neck pickup volume and just toggle between pickups, and rub the strings with my left hand fingernails right over the bridge pickup. This gets that hip-hoppy scratch sound.

I put all this here cause so many younger guitar players will get on my rig and dime all the controls and it just sounds like sh*t. Learn how to use the controls of your guitar as another source of tonal variations.

I have a whole nuther set of responses to this, as a solo player.

I use a dig delay, or a touch of reverb, & a chorus when I play with my acoustic. However, I don't use stuff on every song. I try to keep to a touch of 'verb for most of a set, then i'll bring in the chorus on a lil twangy break, or use it all the way through a Floyd tune. I make the delay very deep, with a full echo, on 2 tunes. This mixing it up really helps keep the audience's interest, as I see their heads pop up when a new tone is introduced. I also use a volume oedal, cuz sometimes the effects will bring up the volume, & I really strive to keep that at a constant, as a rule.

The integration of voice & tone is most important to me, though I use effects sparingly. When I do use them, though, it makes a huge difference.

I really should experiment more with bass effects, but to date, I haven't delved too deeply in them.

It's all subjective, depends on the context, straightforward or over-the-top. I'm currently tweaking my dry sound. Effects are just icing on the cake. Sometimes you like the icing pretty thick, sometimes not. Since I'm working samples into it, I may use the effects there mostly.

Screw all the effects! I just have 4 channels pre-set in my amp and I get away with all night gigs with just: Clean, Overdrive, Overdrive with reverb (for leads) and a little crunch with a touch of chorus for certain chord structures..... I find a lot of guitarists depend on a ton of effects for each and every song and honestly sound like sh¡t if they had to play straight.. If I want certain effects once in a blue moon(flange, echo, phase,etc..) I manually go over to my amp and program it in for a few bars but basically, Im a clean and dirty player! I hate hearing a million effects all night... Show your true talents without all the fluff!

Another good reason for a good tube amp IMO.

I just don't see the kind of responsiveness to pick attack variations on any of the SS amps I have played / owned.

Kerry, my amp is two channels clean and dirty , but I use the dirty one predominately.

I like reverb and a slap back echo. Most of the time the reverb is usually so low that you have to listen close to hear it. The slap back single repeat echo is set just slightly louder. I screwed up my last video by having the reverb up a bit. Other than those fx, I seldom ever even use the rest of what I have.

I designed a dual 360 degree stereo phase shifter that sounds as if the room is turning at slow speeds, and it has a gradual spin to fast that sounds rather like a Leslie. I just don't want to drag around twin amps to use it. I have many FX as any warier should, but most are packed away these days.

I prefer to make my guitar sound a bit fatter but I don't want any clutter to hide the notes.

Crip is right jw, all those exotic effects are not needed with the exception of a few choice songs that may need them like 'Funky Bee'. And it seems to me you have that one in the pocket. It's like playing 127 notes when 3 will do. It can get clouded pretty quick. In my engineering days at the club I would see bands come in with thier sound guys try to nest 3 reverbs 2 delays etc. etc. I'd have to run to the pit and start drinking, come back and find the only 2 people left were the bands GF's

Crip is right jw, all those exotic effects are not needed with the exception of a few choice songs that may need them like 'Funky Bee'. And it seems to me you have that one in the pocket. It's like playing 127 notes when 3 will do. It can get clouded pretty quick. In my engineering days at the club I would see bands come in with thier sound guys try to nest 3 reverbs 2 delays etc. etc. I'd have to run to the pit and start drinking, come back and find the only 2 people left were the bands GF's

I used to play with a guy that I dubbed "The Tone King." He had a slew of effects, & he used them all very well, & it sounded great.

If you're like that, & can make it work, more power to ya! It takes a lot of dedication, hard work, & time, to get all those tones just right, &, if you can use them tastefully, it does add to the music, rather than detract from it. Most ppl don't see the need, or don't wanna spend the time, to really learn how to use their pedals to their best advantage.

I ain't saying that they are necessary, mind you, but they can instill a mood for any & every song, if you know what you're doing.

I think it's perfectly alright to look at your effects as an instrument unto themselves. It never bothered me to hear a new sound on every tune, though there's little that can irritate me more than a guy who has no concept of tone at all. The only thing worse than that is a guy who has timing or tuning issues, imho.

I'm a bass player who uses no effects so I can't relate from personal experience but I've played with a fair number of guitarists who utilized many effects to none at all. It all depends on genre(s) you play and what you want to sound like on each tune. In live performances some of the guitarists who used many effects had trouble changing effects seemlessly between tunes. The key is being able to utilize everything to max advantage and keep the flow of the music happening. Introducing many different tones/frequencies can adversely affect the PA once in a while. To be able to control everything takes great skill and dedication. The young guy I've been playing with has a wah wah pedal and that's his only effect. It all depends on the individual and how hard you work at your craft...

My setup sounds pretty close to yours JW. We used to do a lot of original stuff but now play covers for a regular paycheck. I have a handful of effects that get used each 2-3 times per night: A little flange on the wild tunes, chorus on a ballad or two, reverb awash on Surfaris/Dick Dale, Wah for Hendrix, the rest is 4 gain stages, Fender clean, OCD for a little hair on the blues, Mesa signature singing OD for Santana, and Mesa high gain for Van Halen, AC-DC, G&R etc.

I have tried Wah at different points in the chain but I prefer it in front of gain/OD pedals. I use "color" pedals like chorus, flange, delay sparingly but they do add another dimension to your sound. The worst is when you see a guitarist with talent and then he buries every song in flange and delay. It gets old really fast. Lukather and Neil Shon kinda got in a chorus rut for a while and wore me out but their new stuff is much better.

Crip If I had your licks I wouldnt need no damn effects! LOL

I think some of you misunderstood my stance on effects. I use them sparingly, but no slice at Crip, but I find a guitarist that plays a 4 hour gig and never changes his tone to be extremely boring. I can do it too, and have many times, but for some special tunes it really makes the songs shine, whether true to the original or my own warped point of view.

I would say 80% of the time I play with no effects, my base guitar sound is basically a early 80s JCM 800 tone, live. I have a clean and a more modern sound too but they are used sparingly. My base sound I can just roll off the volume on my guitar fot a little more sparkly on leads or back off for the vocals some.

For the guy that listened to Funky Bee, thanks for listening, I rarely listen to that stuff anymore. On the original front I just wrote stuf that I like, lay it down quickly, well many times too quickly when I listen back later. It was just a moment for me and the originals I record are just for me, not trying to be a rock star on that front any more, cause I know with all the other things in my life there is no way I can dedicate the time to it to make it happen.

My cover band has basically been together for 25 years and we require zero practice for gigs. We talk before hand and I just make sure that whatever our singer wants to do Im ready to deliver the songs. Live I guess Im the song leader cause for our audience Ive always had a good read on what they want, and yeah yeah its ussually the chessy stuff that gets them going. We can play Outshined or Spoonman or Bag A Bones or Dam That River and everyone looks at us, then break into Brickhouse or Sweet Home Alabama and the go nuts. You guys starting cover bands to paly clubs should take note of what works and doesnt. I learned the hardway to give people what they want, or I dont get paid.

We have a gig coming up and we may try to do a mini 4-5 song original set, nothing I have on here, but I want to get someone to video us and if that happens I will try to put that up.

Our live ast is like AC/DC or Kiss, we uses a full set of lights smoke lazers, me and the singer are roaming the room with wireless the whole night. So its not only the effects and amps in our case, and I know everyone one here thinks theyve got a show, but Ive watched hundreds of club acts in my area and there are only two that impress me.

On effects again, thats why I love stomp boxes instead of all in ones. I dont have time to midi thru pages. I just want a button to stomp as Im coming by, trying to have a seemless live show without someone just sitting there playing all their scales and wanking. I can wank pretty good, but the show is the most important part to our audience and what they expect from us. I give up a certain amount of technical accuracy to put on the show.

In the end effects are up to the user. There is no right or wrong just different peoples opinion. In the old days I used a Morley volume, trble boost, volume pedal all in one and maybe a chorus pedal. This was one of the old chrome morleys I still have it but it doesnt work anymore. I rarely used effects in cutting my teeth, I was of the rule that less is more and it is in most cases, but if you have some crazy as effect you can engage for a solo or small section of a song believe me it gets attention. When we do that Killing IN The Name song and I nail that baby, any musician in the house is tracking me down after the set and asking how I did that.

Good Luck with or without!