General Music Chat

My lead guitar player is phenomenal. He impresses me
every time he picks it up. He actually thinks 3 dimensionally
of the sound he is making. Always thinking in layers. I am so lucky to
have found him. Early in his career he actually turned down the
lead guitar position in the Doobie Brothers.

I have a song Sidewinder. When it came time for his lead. He played 7
distinctly different lead parts for me and asked me to pick one. It was
amazing. I am so pumped.

Good guitar player like that are few and far between ... you are a lucky man

I could use some tips from him recording-wise. My problem was always making loud, thin sounding tracks, which causes clipping. I'm thinking I may do better playing the rhythm tracks twice and panning right to left...but I'm not sure if that will be good enough. How does he go about rhythm tracks?

How did you find this guy?

I maybe wrong but I think KLUGMO may also be saying that the guitar player is leaving space that can be filled by others ... not over playing

I play with a guitar player once it a while ... you can ask him to play his part like Steve Via .. Jeff Beck ... John Mclaughlin .. Chet Atkins .. who ever and he pulls it off .. while leaving negative space for other instruments to bleed through .. he's a dream to play with.

It's my favorite way to do things. If you listen to our album, all guitars are doubled. Even the solos. The Recession solo alone is 4-tracks. There's a lot of cool stuff going on in that song. Even doubled tracks are done with different guitars and sounds all over the album for texture. Check out our Reverb Nation page, and you can hear some of it.

Good for you man. Sounds like a good guitarist to work with.

Prevost Quote: I maybe wrong but I think KLUGMO may also be saying that the guitar player is leaving space that can be filled by others ... not over playing

I see it now! Ok. The cold medicine last night mixed with 2am dulled me good.

So, he makes room by not trying to use too many big chords, or over strumming, to keep from overshadowing the rest of the music?

Shredd Quote:It's my favorite way to do things. If you listen to our album, all guitars are doubled. Even the solos. The Recession solo alone is 4-tracks. There's a lot of cool stuff going on in that song. Even doubled tracks are done with different guitars and sounds all over the album for texture. Check out our Reverb Nation page, and you can hear some of it.

I've noticed a lot of guitarists these days prefer to just record one track, then copy and paste. I've done that, and it never sounds full. I'll definitely check out your page! I've been trying to recognize layering in audio.

Klugmo, when do I get to hear this guy?

We usually double all rhythm and vocal tracks unless they're too damned hard to replicate. Bass, drums and leads are left alone.

We usually double all rhythm and vocal tracks unless they're too damned hard to replicate. Bass, drums and leads are left alone.

So, if lead vocals are doubled, then how many tracks for back up?

It's not up to me when songs are released. Under contract they belong to TriRock.
Many things have to be set up first before music is released.
I have my hands full just making it.

OK. I'm clueless. I still do not have any idea of what the term "guitar layering" is supposed to mean. Only the suggestions of others that are also questioning the term may or may not actually shed any light to the terminology.

It's like me playing the lead tracks for ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS three or four times in studio with different guitars and or amps and then the engineer " layers " them too sound like one full track.
Or at least that is one application of it.

We don't layer anything ... straight out rockin.

We attempted it on our very first studio outing. It sounded good, but was not representative of our live sound, which is what we wanted from our recordings.

Lets say a song has 48 tracks, and 5 of them are electric guitar
now also 3 could be acoustic. Some tracks of either guitar may
include a couple unique licks just here and there, texturing the
over all effect of guitars in the song. Jimmy Page did it all over
his songs. Making it appropriate is the trick. If not done right
it just mushes up the song and your ear doesn't hear texture
and intricate detail.

Listen I'm no guitar player but I have a good ear for music
and I know good when I hear it.

By the way, one of my demo songs was played for large label
executives in Nashville yesterday and the comments were
"we like his timbre" and "you've got something there"
They asked the owner of TriRock for a copy but he wouldn't
give it up, Thank God.

You make an excellent point Klug. Layering could mean using different distinct guitar tracks a la Jimmy Page, or it could simply mean "doubling" a specific track to make it sound thicker. But this cannot be achieved by simply copying the track; it must be played and recorded to be as similar as possible to the original track. The differences and natural variations are what cause the ear to hear a thicker sound. Usually we'll let one of the tracks be the "master", turning down the other track(s) so that they compliment instead of compete.

This is more about finding and layering tone but I am
talking about layering styles of play as well. There are many tricks
like pulling everyother string off a 12 string guitar and playing that.
Or play like it's a banjo or making your guitar sound like a
pedal steel. Blend that kinda stuff appropriatley and you've
got something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbDyUwQFUZA

Guitar Layering 101

When I record a guitar part I will ussually do two tracks hard right and hard right in the mix. This for me works well for crunchy rythym parts. If you palying ability isnt advance enough to play over the top of a track and make it sound tight. A trick I learned is pan a dry guitar line either right or left, then to the other side send it thru a delay with around 10-20 ms delay, this will thicken it up.

Another trick, say you have a strat and a les paul, ones single coils ones humbuckers, play the same part thru the same amp with the different guitar. A basic strat and paul sound really complement each other well to my ears. Or use a totally different amp say tube on the left and SS on the right, anything to give a little different texture.

For acoustic place one mic near the soundhole and then another up near the fret hand and kinda pan these to taste.

Lead solos, I typically will just lay one line down and then put it near the center of the stereo spread. On the other hand if I want a thick lead tone. I will do harmonys. Say a guitar solo is basically in the 5th fret position, record a simple line in this area and then play the same pattern at the 12th fret. Pan one left and one right, this is a basic 5th harmony.

I try to have a more sparse guitar sound in the verses of songs to give it more space for the vocal. I will a lot to times double or triple the guitar parts for the chorus's of songs. Or add a big wah punch or whammy pedal punch to accenuate the chorus, or just any effect to mix it up. Jimmy Page and BIlly Gibbons to me were masters of this technique. Listen to almost any Zep studio song and he really layers his guitars, but they arent overbearing. I mean when i started recording I just wantethe guitar louder than anything, sometimes a lower level dynamic sounds bigger than a lot of volume.