General Music Chat

I hate to be a buzz kill but this is the deal. If you want to get "paid" these are the credentials you have to bring to the negotiating table.

Again, that's a misread of the topic thread. You are talking about varying amounts a musician can get paid (from a six digit NY Philharmonic player to a guitarist making 60 bucks an hour for a wedding). This thread is about getting paid AT ALL if you are a professional.

Then how is one a proffesional if they are not getting paid, and why are they bothering to play for free if they usually do get paid?

Well there is half the problem.... the level you label yourselves to be... such as calling yourselves professionals.....There isn't a single musician here in BandMix that is a professional..... every one of you is an Amateur.

You don't have proper management.... You don't have a publicist... you don't have marketing campaign... You don't have a syndicate deal... You don't have a recording deal... You don't have CDs.... videos......You don't have Magazine coverage... You don't have your name listed anywhere near the top 100 artists

Hell many of you don't even have a full band for crying out loud.... where the hell do you see this ... professionalism? You don't have anything but..... a bunch of reasons why you can't succeed. You suggest that because you do what you do for a living that you are a professional...... yea right!!!

I worked as a Web/Graphic Designer for years ..... and made fair money at it..... but I was NOT a professional Web/Graphic Designer. I worked as a Music Instructor to youngsters .... teaching them how to play guitar and giving them some basic music knowledge .... made a few bucks at it ..... but was NOT a professional.

Just because you do something for a living ..... don't make you a professional. Would you call some young teen working for a small time gas station as a secretary .... a professional secretary? Would you credit her with the same level of status as a secretary who is working for Microsoft? That young girl is working as a Gas Station secretary for a living .... so in your definition ... she is a professional secretary... right? WRONG. She's just an amateur..... likely don't even have an University/College training. She'll get paid as an amateur.... as an amateur is what she is.

Well there is half the problem.... the level you label yourselves to be... such as calling yourselves professionals.....There isn't a single musician here in BandMix that is a professional..... every one of you is an Amateur.

Please don't say incredibly stupid things. I am a professional and have been for most of my life. I make most of my living with music...its performance, and its composition. I would bet there are others here too.

Then how is one a proffesional if they are not getting paid, and why are they bothering to play for free if they usually do get paid?

I refer you to the piece at the head of this thread that illustrates that conundrum.

Irminsul .... your fooling yourself ...... you are NOT a professional... you may like to call yourself one ... but the sad fact is.... your not. You don't do a damn thing at a professional level. Where is your Management Team? Your Lawyer? Your Accountant? Which publicist do you use ... for which Magazine Publications? How many CDs do you have out? Do you have any #1 hits?

I can go on seemly forever asking you for your professional credits .... but ... you will fail to provide any. At best ... you play bars and surrounding affairs.... like many other amateurs.... hoping to score a professional career.

Lets lean first towards Wegman's post irminsul.... how about you show me your degree in music. Do you have any fans to back up your story.... you know ... more than the 50 people you may claim you played for a few days ago. I mean a REAL fan count.... like a few million ... like professionals have.

Show me "anything" that suggests you are a professional other than your own opinions and judgements of your musical skills and talent. Just how the hell are you a professional Irminsul .... do tell.

As we already know, you are a complete fool and still make foolish statements. A professional musician is one who regularly makes some or all of their living with music. I have regular clients, regular venues, semi-regular commissions, pay union dues, have a health plan and a pension as a musician. If you don't know what all this means, then it's clear you have a lot to learn.

You have this teenage view of the world in which a "professional" is determined by the number of "number one hits" a person has. How dumb can you be. There are professionals all over the WORLD who have never had a number one hit on radio or anyplace else.

Tell ya what, come back when you have grown up and at least know what you are talking about before we discuss this...how about that?

No irminsul ... it is "you" who has alot to learn. Your nothing more than a backstage garage player who bounces around small time venues. And sure ... you likely have regulars ..... I had regulars as a Web/Graphic Designer too .... big deal.

I appreciate that you like to build yourself up... and thats great ... but you can't get to arrogant with this "professional" status claim.

I'm still waiting for the proof irminsul.... where are your professional credits? You don't have any do you?

Now you know why your being paid so little for GIGing.

from Sir Elton John who opened the Sprint Center in Kansas City to fisherman bob who plays in dives once in a while. Publicists, lawyers, accountants, etc. have nothing to do with the level a "professional" musician is at. I have found that here in the Kansas City area and most other markets in the United States that there are many professioal musicians who are having a hard time making a full-time income in music. There are far too many fine musicians and too few places for them to play. I don't like being labeled an "amateur" just because I'm not making mega-bucks in the music business. I've heard a lot of superstar "professionals" who can't hold my jock when it comes to music. How did they become famous "professionals?" Was it dumb-assa luck? Could they show off their belly buttons on a video? Were they rich to begin with and Mommy and Daddy bought teir careers? Were the right people bribed? I simply look at an individual musician and judge them on the talent of their playing. Whether or not they have a team of professional people behind them , or they do all their own booking and "legal" work doesn't mean jack doo-doo to me. My judgement whether a muscian is professional or not is based solely on the redeeming value of their playing/and/or singing ability. If they look hot on a video, if they have a hot selling CD, if they are making a ton of money, don't mean jack doo-doo. Just my two cents...good luck to ALL of you in the music business.

The mentioning of Lawyers, accountants ... etc. ... were examples Bob.. not necessities. And I didn't say a professional status was income based.

Calling yourselves a Professional just because you made some money at something you do well ... and for years while finding some admirers.... is not correct.

Your not a professional until your a household name. Its that simple. Major Record Companies, Lawyers, Accountants, Publicists... etc... are just tools that assist you in becoming a household name. Tools ... not necessities.

mage ...
wow ... chill out.

I've been on and off the road, touring for 40 yrs. Am I a pro? ... I guess so or a lot of bands that call me up to tour don't know nothing ... they pay me to play so I must be a pro.

I don't have a manager, publicist etc. but I do have an accountant, and I did say in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm not a front man, I'm not the show .... I help build the show, I'm just one cog in a gear.

Something on the money side that isn't being mention, to make real money, is you have to be noticed ... you have to be above the rest of the pack ... in your playing, band dynamics and stage performance ... and that is a team effort with the band.

It's amazing how many musicians don't now how to play in a band even thou they've played in a band for sometime ... and they end up sounding like all the other bar bands that play for nothing. LESS IS MORE

Ron

Personally .... I don't think i'm the one who has to chill.... I think some of you need a wake up call.

If your not a household name... your not a professional.... and I don't care how many bars you played... how much money you made ... or how well you play.

Because you are the musicians .... of course your going to defend yourselves and call yourselves the best there is .... so ... how about we get an outside opinion.... from the fans of music.

Lets do a fan pole and see how the fans feel about this Household name thing deciding who is professional and who is amateur.

I think its funny that some of you can't even find yourselves a bassist, or guitarist for crying out loud .... pffffttt some professionals .... lol.

It seems awful funny that I know how to find the people your looking for..... what the hell is taking all of you so long? And i'm not a professional either .... lol.

No irminsul ... it is "you" who has alot to learn. Your nothing more than a backstage garage player who bounces around small time venues. And sure ... you likely have regulars ..... I had regulars as a Web/Graphic Designer too .... big deal.

I appreciate that you like to build yourself up... and thats great ... but you can't get to arrogant with this "professional" status claim.

I'm still waiting for the proof irminsul.... where are your professional credits? You don't have any do you?

Now you know why your being paid so little for GIGing.

HA...listen to yourself! Are you telling me that all of the PROFESSIONAL players in the Utah Symphony have personal lawyers, management, and a number one radio hit? That The 20 plus year regular harpist at the Waldorf in New York City, Ray Pool, isn't a PROFESSIONAL even though he makes his living from his lucrative Waldorf gig plus his CD sales?

Dude...move out of your mom's basement, get a real job and LEARN about the realities of the professional working world. Put down the BILLBOARD and ROLLING STONE magazines, drop your cock and grab your socks, and see what professionalism really means!

And as for a short list of my professional credits...here ya go:

Piano composition debut, San Diego New Composers concert (Lawrence Kisko, performing) 2006
Silverton Jubilee 2005
Las Cruces Renaissance Festival 2004
Commission and performance - Salt Lake Pride Day 2003
Utah Arts Festival concerts (with Stonecircle) 2001, 2002
Utah Scottish Festival – 1997, 1998, 2002
Salt Lake City St. Patricks Day Parade – 2003, 2002, 2001
KSL TV (Salt Lake City, Utah)
KTVX (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Hard Rock Café (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Durango Celtic Music Festival – 2003, 2002
Kirkin’ O’ The Tartan, Utah St. Andrews Society – 1998
First Scottish Parlaiment Celebration (Utah) – 1997
Moab Concerts – Starr Hall, 2002
Paonia Theater, Paonia Colorado 2002
Hybernian Medieval Banquet – 1997, 1998, 1999
Salt Lake Hybernian Annual Siamsa – 1997, 1998
Red Butte Gardens, Salt Lake City Utah 2003
Brown Bag Concert Series – 2000, 2001
Salt Lake Annual Pride Day Celebration – 2003
Foothill Amphitheater Concert Series – 2001, 2002
Off Broadway Theater St. Paddy’s Night Concert – 1997
St. Patricks Day Dinner Concert, Evanston Wyoming – 1996
St. Patricks Night Bash, Jackson Hole Wyoming – 1999
Snowbird Outdoor Concert – 1999
Sundance Outdoor Concert Series – 2000, 2001, 2002
Idaho State University Summer Concert – 2000
Old Rose Church Dinner Theatre – 2002, 2003
Ogden Sanctuary Summer Solstice Concert Series – 2002
Brigham City Summer Concert on The Square – 1998



Now, tell us, junior, how often your mommy lets you out to play Bigtime Rock Star Manager. List your credits, and I don't mean how many female singers you seek out to lie to about your abilities, in order to get into their pants. Go ahead, Junior....I'm all ears....

from Sir Elton John who opened the Sprint Center in Kansas City to fisherman bob who plays in dives once in a while. Publicists, lawyers, accountants, etc. have nothing to do with the level a "professional" musician is at. I have found that here in the Kansas City area and most other markets in the United States that there are many professioal musicians who are having a hard time making a full-time income in music. There are far too many fine musicians and too few places for them to play. I don't like being labeled an "amateur" just because I'm not making mega-bucks in the music business. I've heard a lot of superstar "professionals" who can't hold my jock when it comes to music. How did they become famous "professionals?" Was it dumb-assa luck? Could they show off their belly buttons on a video? Were they rich to begin with and Mommy and Daddy bought teir careers? Were the right people bribed? I simply look at an individual musician and judge them on the talent of their playing. Whether or not they have a team of professional people behind them , or they do all their own booking and "legal" work doesn't mean jack doo-doo to me. My judgement whether a muscian is professional or not is based solely on the redeeming value of their playing/and/or singing ability. If they look hot on a video, if they have a hot selling CD, if they are making a ton of money, don't mean jack doo-doo. Just my two cents...good luck to ALL of you in the music business.

Bob, thank you. You are right all the way around. This kid clearly is a pretender who hasn't even learned the verbage of his ersatz career.

I see you still didn't learn to read irminsul ..... I said they Lawyers, Accountants... etc. .... were tools .... not necessitites... to becoming a household name.

As for my Management .... I don't have any credits ..... and i'm not a household name.... in short .... i'm not a professional.

I'm pretty much like you people .... a backstage garage manager. I'm an Amateur.

I see you still didn't learn to read irminsul ..... I said they Lawyers, Accountants... etc. .... were tools .... not necessitites... to becoming a household name.

Ohhh, back pedaling now, are we. What a shocker.

From JUNIOR's own words -

"Irminsul .... your fooling yourself ...... you are NOT a professional... you may like to call yourself one ... but the sad fact is.... your not. You don't do a damn thing at a professional level. Where is your Management Team? Your Lawyer? Your Accountant? Which publicist do you use ... for which Magazine Publications? How many CDs do you have out? Do you have any #1 hits?"

Well jumpin Jesus on a pogo stick. I don't see any "household name" in there, anybody else? I see the rantings of some little ass whose mouth pops into gear before his brain engages.

'mage, don't worry. You've been stuffed back into your feetie jammies again. You should be used to this by now.