General Music Chat

Ahem...Moving on from the current drama that has filled our beloved forum lately...


I'm developing a new band which seems destined to have at least three individual songwriters-and that leads to a few new questions (at least new to me):

*How willing would you be to re-arrange your pre-band material?

*How open would you be to suggestions from the other songwriters, regarding material that you've previously written, recorded and/or performed live?

*Would you be open to someone other than yourself doing vocal work on songs already established vocals (your own)?

*What about this: You've got three people who are all lyricists, and you've just jammed on some new musical ideas. How do you decide who writes the lyrics?

*Those same people have varied musical backgrounds. How do you maintain a creative balance-so that the "band" doesn't end up sounding like one person's work?

I don't know if these questions make sense, and I'd be glad to clarify...I'm sure I'll be adding a few more to this list, but in the meantime...What'cha think, folks?

I don't know much about songwriting and lyrics and that, I just mke up basslines.

Your last question, though, seems like it might be solved by just jamming together and finding your balance.

My experience is of course only with our present band.
Every one of us have added lyrical content to just about every song.
Every one of us has songs with whom the origination is credited.
Even if and when the basic melody is established by the writer of the lyrics each musician has his own interpretation of how it is played with input from the other members.
Being as I do not sing, I often provide Ray with a skeleton of lyrical content that is the basis for the song. If I have melody in my head I will also impart that information and allow him to transpose as necessary to create a workable song for him.

The creative balance is through mutual respect for each individuals vision.
Some of our songs have had the melody completely altered either by design or spontaneously. An example would be the song UNDER THE SPOUT that I had posted about a month ago. The lyrics were "ripped" out of what was basically a dead project and inserted into a spontaneous jam session of the rhythm section.

To me, that is the essence of rock.

We have some very strong personalities in our group, yet we have learned to respect the chemistry amongst us.

Er ... ah ... what was the question ?

I hate to open a can of worms but in my opinion I would copywrite YOUR songs BEFORE you share them with anybody else. They might tweak it here and there, but going in everybody knows it's YOUR tune. When I say tweak I mean short of censorship where somebody won't do the song unless you change a part they find objectionable. As far as who sings it I believe that should be a vote among the band members. ANother band member's voice may be more suitable for one of YOUR songs. You may even want another band member to sing it live and YOU sing it in the studio. Be open minded about changes and LISTEN to others who may have a better idea how to arrange and perform YOUR songs and vice-versa. In previous bands I've had other people sing my originals because the bass-line is so hard to play and sing at the same time. You should use the best combination of talents on every tune and don't get upset when there's a vote to use another vocalist. If you end up with a situation where there's more than one dictator then that may become untenable. Don't listen to a dictator, keep it a democracy, and DO NOT ALLOW CENSORSHIP and you should be okay.

Thanks, guys. Airweavers, I really appreciate the breakdown-I guess I'm not crazy! You made them all sound like legitimate questions!

And you're right...it IS a band conversation, and so far, between the two of us (Me and the guitarist), we have a pretty solid understanding...I think I'm just wary of suddenly finding myself overpowered. He (Rick) and I work well together, but we have different tastes in music. Initially, we had a singer/keys chick that was going to join us, but she backed out. Her style was very different from either myself or Rick. Now, we're discussing adding another guitarist-one who not only has performed with Rick before, but also writes AND has a similar style to Rick. That last part has me concerned a bit...

Great answers on the originals and vocals questions-and to the point. Some songs I don't mind if we make adjustments, while others I really want to keep as is.
Also, I guess I'm just trying to find a way to ensure that equality, in regards to the creative end. That being said, I want a certain cihesiveness to the band's sound. In other words, I want to have three creative minds create a diverse yet common sound. That could be challenging...

I agree, Bob. You and I share acommon problem...I have difficulty pulling off a lot of my bass lines AND singing-so I don't have too much of an issue with someone else doing the vocals.
BTW, everything I've recorded thus far is copywritten (copyrighted?).
Why take chances, eh?
Seems like the answers to my questions are all about balance and open mindedness. Thanks guys, we're off to a good start, and hopefully we can maintain it.

Are you collaborating or are you the star? The mentality is designated when you start out and you would have to base future endeavors with that in mind. Would it be fair to attract other musicians through a promise of collaboration, just to take it back upon any success without it?

As far as arranging pre-band material you have to do what’s best for the music. Nobody likes to change what they adore, but personal attachment can limit music evolution. Something fantastic in one pair of ears, could be mediocre to the masses and that quirky transition may be the thing you hate, but makes something great to the wider audience.

The solution is lot’s of opinions, but in the end your material is just that, so you have to weight artistic vision against appeal. This covers just about all these questions, simply put, take what’s best. To have that many resources available is nothing short of a great thing.

We use sound click to gauge appeal of melodies based on chart results. It’s not a 100% pure gauge, as if anything could be, but it does give you a relative gauge amongst your own material. You could even release the same tune under different genres, to see where it fits best.

For the creative balance issue, use enthusiasm as a gauge. If one person really latches onto a tune and they seem to have the core concept about what it’s all about, designate it as their tune. Distance yourself a little from it and see what develops with them in charge. Ownership can really make the difference in purpose towards the people doing it. Greed has to be the biggest destroyer of any famous band out there, if the intent is to share, then share you must. Eventually some will be more adapt at forging the path where some may wish to, but are not innovative, talented or even dedicated enough to see it through. You won’t know of course until they have that chance to shine, or make a mess out of things.

Look at the Beatles, Paul McCartney was considered the leader, but much of the more intense music was written by John Lennon. Can you imagine if it was limited to just the talent of Paul McCartney? Same with Pink Floyd Roger Waters and David Gilmour. Nothing against either with talent most people couldn’t achieve in a lifetime. But when you get down to it, Waters was the weird (with the loss of Syd Barrett) and Gilmour the rock and roll.

Censorship ?

Yeah ... well ... I gladly allow Ray to do some censorship.
Some of my lyrics can be a bit rough for the intended purpose. LOL

I don't mind if he rounds the edges a bit. As long as the meaning comes thorough.

I would do it thusly - whoever writes the song has final say on how it's arranged & produced, when you have more than 1 songwriter in a band. I like to have control of my 'babies.' If YOU, as the songwriter, prefer how someone else sings it, then fine. If the band can't come to terms on a song, dump it & do it on a solo project (& don't be afraid to ask them if they'd help you out on it, if you wanna, but male it clear that, there it will be done YOUR way, only).

You sound as if you may be wary of a power play by the two guys vs, you, since they've worked together before, & have similar styles. I can relate to that, but you still may be surprised at how it turns out for you, if you approach it with an open mind.

Are you having power struggles now, before the new guy comes in? If so, you may not be a well-matched group of guys. If it isn't a problem now, then why wish it on yourself?

I am perfectly willing to do whatever anyone wants me to do on their work, but I expect the same in return. (I reserve the right to critique the result, though, should I find it lacking...)

I AM willing to listen to the input of others, & sometimes, it turns out that their ideas work better for a song, if only because of musician limitations, & there are times you hafta take that into account. However, I reserve the final say on my work. If they can't do it to my satisfaction, I will pull it from the list, & put in another. I have plenty of stuff, so it isn't like it's a life or death situation with any given song. I do try to tell them why, in as tactical a way as I can, but I won't let one of my songs be played out there in a less than satisfactory manner.

When collaborating, ya just hafta go with the ol' democratic voting system, as to the choice of lyric, or a bridge that goes way out there, or whatever. It's a band, & there must be give & take. I don't mind compromising in a collaborative effort, because to do otherwise destroys the concept of collaboration...& the worst thing you can do there, is play that 'counting game,' which, in reality, has no place in a group. If you're outvoted, take it in stride, no mater how often it happens, unless you find the music really lacking from it. Then it's time to move on.

Ppl who have varied musical backgrounds are gonna, by definition, be more open to varied approaches to music, I would think, so the whole biz of sounding like "one person's work" may not be a problem, unless there are powerful ego problems at work.

You sound like you sound. They, too, have their own personal styles. Blending them will come up with something else that's (hopefully) unique. I'd worry less about power plays, & worry more about personal contribution, & seeing what happens. This sounds like it could be really great, if you don't overthink everything, joseph!

Amazing how we can go from slinging sh*t to intellectual conversation instantly.
Anybody else feel a tinge of whiplash ??

Simple.

The best stuff wins.
Of course each one of you has to have ability recognize 'the better' when it's there, lyrics music or otherwise.

Screw your egos