General Music Chat

"Anyone arguing that fact, is simply attempting to excuse his own guilt."

Wrong, Craig. Again, you assume too much. What makes you think I feel at all guilty?

The argument is - there are too many conflicting studies on the subject, many of which have obvious prejudice at their source...on BOTH sides of the issue.

Not you, not anyone, can conclusively say what tobacco will do to any given person, in average doses.

It's as simple as that.

Try a little of growth, to accept the REAL & TRUE facts on the matter, & put your prejudices aside.

Here's the REAL TRUE FACTS, Phil. The tobacco companies admitted to congress UNDER OATH that they lied for decades about the real harm their product causes. Their excuse was "people should have known we were lying." How's that for balls! THEIR OWN RESEARCH confirmed what we've told you. It is addictive poison. Some bodies can put up with it. Some can't. But, believing otherwise is deluding yourself. I am tired of this thread. Bye.

Phil

You smoked weed before, right?

Would you FORCE a child, an infant, to get high with you in an enclosed space? Would you get a baby high?

Well, no one ever died from smoking marijuana. But, tobacco kills millions of people. You're an adult. They're not.

.

I can die from marijuana. Allergic to it.
Though probably not from second hand smoke.

Some people have allergic reactions to ciggarette smoke. (which is why everyone should stick to big plugs of redman chaw)

My dad smoked in the car till I was about 12. I'm no worse of for it. Always had a window cracked though.

Mike Nobody, just because of your badass avatar, I take back the dbag blast.

I have never argued that tobacco is not addictive, Mike. Nor have I claimed that it is a healthy thing to do. What I AM saying, is that it is far less harmful than the anti-smoking lobby would have us all believe, & I'm tired of misinformation being bandied about in the name of "health."

Wrong, Craig. Again, you assume too much. What makes you think I feel at all guilty?

Maybe "Excusing their BEHAVIOR" would have been better.

The argument is - there are too many conflicting studies on the subject

Ridiculous! That's like saying their is conflicting evidence for and against, whether there was a real MOON LANDING or not! Absurd. Conflicting information like that, is conspiracy IDIOCY!

When you are hacking your lungs out, that's all the evidence ANYONE should reasonably need, that this is BAD FOR YOU, and for ANYONE ELSE breathing it! PERIOD! It amazes me that you can be somewhat reasonable at times, and then turn around, and lay out such STUPID STATEMENTS like these!

Your kids/grandkids likely cough occassionally, cover their faces and wipe their eyes, from the smoke.

Join reality brother!

It IS GUILT isn't it? But you are trying to AVOID it!

wow, didn't even know this thread existed..

Neanderdoodle, I think we feel similarly.

I also find myself angry with those folks.

I think it's because the kids:
1) don't fully know what's going on.
2) have no choice in the matter/can't get away

but I also understand that folks have a right to do mean things to people: even their own children..to some degree.

I don't think there's much more to be said that adds anything of value to the discussion.

it sucks
but I'm not gonna lobby for a new law governing folks behaviour.

my most humblest of .02

Neanderdoodle, I think we feel similarly.

Dude! Lol! The best play on my stage name yet!

LOL

Ah, Craiggy! it's so nice to know that you haven't lost your touch with your Flinging Finger Of Shame, but face it - it's so wasted on the likes of me.

I will be the first to say I detest cigarette smoke, it stinks, it's nasty and I can't stand it. But I don't mind cigars, pipes or hookahs or weed smoke. I'll puff on a cigar here and there, but that's it.

However, I really don't know how I feel about that. I don't agree with smoking around kids, but I have friends who smoke. I had one friend who smoked around her kids and smoked while she was pregnant. She spit out all three kids without stopping. Me, Ms. Natural over here with all my health food, exercise, herbs, breastfed my daughter for 16 months, had a 20 hour labor and spit out a kid with asthma, hearing loss, multiple ear infections, asthma, and gets sick as soon as the air turns cold. My second daughter I said f**k it and ate fast food and gave her formula, hardly gets a sniffle.

I mean listening to this argument about cigarette smoke, I'm having the same argument on another board with a bunch of dogoodies who seem to think that toxins in lotions is giving them cancer. WTF? You breathe this gunk day in and day out, have cell phones glued to our ear, all the solar flares, sh*t dumped in our water that we don't even know, growth hormones in our food, honestly, I feel kind of stupid demanding people stop smoking when I really want to get a hydrogen car. I figure I'll serve up the smokers on a later date, when I get the air cleaner from all these damned cars.

As far as child abuse. Ha ha. Of all the dumb f**k having kids and abusing them, smokers are the least of my concern. There's a few judges I'd like to serve up for giving these kids back to their lowlife parents.

Chaeya

I knew I liked you the moment I read your first post, Chaeya. You got sense, taste, you don't meddle & you have great taste in Pilgrim shoes!

Wow, what a hornets nest I walked into here

FACT #1 - A girl I know did her final thesis on the benefits of tobacco.
She chose this because her mother had done the same thing 20 years earlier, and she could research and find any changes in current results.

Her findings:

Virtually no changes in truly "independent" studies (university non tobacco or tobacco related funded) and nearly all beneficial with the exception of tar buildup in the lungs, which dissipates much quicker after quitting than commonly reported.

FACT #2 - When I was a child of 10 and a regular smoker, seemingly everyone smoked. Yet I didn't know of a single person with cancer. In fact, I'd never even heard of it; the first time I did was when a kid in another local school that some of us knew got it.
Dave's mom said "he has cancer".
We said "what is that"
it's when your body starts attacking itself
WHOA

So no, I don't believe that cigarettes are the cause of the sudden epidemic of cancer.

50% of people killed by lung cancer, have never smoked.

Chemicals introduced to our air, water and most importantly our foods are the culprit IMHO.
(it's much cheaper to use a single industry as a scape goat than to change the entire "profit first, morals for someone else" corporate base)

I have been a smoker since the age of 7 and a regular since the age of 10.

I am short winded but always have been, Yes since before the age of 7. I never could go the distance with my brothers and neighbors.

Other than that I see no detrimental affects from my 45 years of smoking... I think my voice sounds pretty good for someone who according to common beliefs should be long dead, much less sounding better than ever!

So maybe give that couple a break. I'm sure they have much bigger things to worry about for their kids than that... In fact I know they do!

"Peace Love and Dirty Women"

*

I will be the first to say I detest cigarette smoke, it stinks, it's nasty and I can't stand it. But I don't mind cigars, pipes or hookahs or weed smoke. I'll puff on a cigar here and there, but that's it.

However, I really don't know how I feel about that. I don't agree with smoking around kids, but I have friends who smoke. I had one friend who smoked around her kids and smoked while she was pregnant. She spit out all three kids without stopping. Me, Ms. Natural over here with all my health food, exercise, herbs, breastfed my daughter for 16 months, had a 20 hour labor and spit out a kid with asthma, hearing loss, multiple ear infections, asthma, and gets sick as soon as the air turns cold. My second daughter I said f**k it and ate fast food and gave her formula, hardly gets a sniffle.

I mean listening to this argument about cigarette smoke, I'm having the same argument on another board with a bunch of dogoodies who seem to think that toxins in lotions is giving them cancer. WTF? You breathe this gunk day in and day out, have cell phones glued to our ear, all the solar flares, sh*t dumped in our water that we don't even know, growth hormones in our food, honestly, I feel kind of stupid demanding people stop smoking when I really want to get a hydrogen car. I figure I'll serve up the smokers on a later date, when I get the air cleaner from all these damned cars.

As far as child abuse. Ha ha. Of all the dumb f**k having kids and abusing them, smokers are the least of my concern. There's a few judges I'd like to serve up for giving these kids back to their lowlife parents.

Chaeya

Did you ever see the Married With Children episode where Peg Bundy won a contest and got some super health fitness guy to get her into shape? She ended up making him f**k up his diet so he pigged out on junk food and died. Al Bundy's response was that his body was too weak living on all that healthy stuff to handle it. "Look at the cockroach. They live on crap. And they're so hard to kill they're practically immortal. Let us follow the example of our brother, the cockroach."

Facts remain facts, despite amusing anecdotes, used as "evidence" to detract from the REAL FACTS. And the REAL FACTS are that cigarettes are unhealthy, greatly affects the quality of life, and often leads to premature death!

Your HACKING is your body TELLING YOU that this is unhealthy. PERIOD!

And Chaeya, I appreciated SOME of your comment, but your main argument is no different than this one.... "With all the pedophiles out there, who have ACTUAL SEX with children, I am not going to worry about any of them who only feel up my daughter!"

Make sense to you, really?

It "IS" a form of child abuse, because you are threatening the child's HEALTH and doing it FORCIBLY! Just as if you FORCED your child to eat barely one meal a day, yeah... they are alive still, you "ARE" feeding them, but you are affecting their health adversely. Judges have penalized parents for the reverse of this as well... Over feeding their children, who become morbidly obese. This threatens their health too, and it "IS" child abuse, for a parent to put their child into a threatening situation that affects their health adversely.

I don't want to hear about George Burns living into his 90's either. The lame arguments put forth on the "pro" side, are simply intellectually deficient!

Didn't read everything here. They say if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen, so I did.

I've been a smoker for thirty years, and have been stepping outside even at my own home since long before my kids were born. Ever since I met my wife actually. She's not a smoker, and the smell bothers her to no end, even on my clothes after having one.

I've never had a problem only smoking outdoors now for many years. I've got no problem admitting it's a danger to my kids, and I won't expose them to it. I never smoke in the car they ride in regularly. I've got my own and hardly ever drive it anyway, and they almost never ride in it.

I look at it this way. I chose to smoke a long time ago. I don't see any reason why my kids, who haven't chosen to, should be exposed to it because of my choice.

Stepping outside does suck when it's 100 degrees out or twenty below zero, but I guess I choose to because the heat or cold is less annoying and irritating than withdrawal can be sometimes. Again, MY choice.

It ain't THAT bad to step out the door for a few minutes. A couple of my kids have asthma, so it's the least I can do. Neither of them have had a problem with it for a very long time, but I bet you anything they would have, and still would, if I hadn't chosen to keep it to myself.

They are worth it. 'Nuff said.

Now if I could just buckle down and QUIT before one of them makes the same stupid choice I did someday...

You know what makes me feel like a real dumb-ass about this?

Neither one of my parents were smokers, and I have no siblings, so I've got NO ONE else to point fingers at.

Hey, who let a real parent and a GROWN UP on this board?

A lot of people here talk a lot about personal responsibility. It is seldom they actually accept it.