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#129952 by Chaeya
Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:04 pm
RGMixProject wrote:12 year old sniper kills your 22 year old son and at the funeral a group of people protest loudly. "You stupid fu@king parents should have never had kids." (SUCKERS)

Mike Nobody made some good points?
Are you nuts? Is he your son?


No, he ain't my son. Since you buggers don't read well, I'll reiterate what I said and 'splain it to y'all like kids.

Mike Nobody's points I agree with:

We'll leave you high and dry without any benefits when you need help. - THIS IS f**k TRUE. I KNOW BECAUSE YOU CAN DIG UP THE VETS WHO ARE SUFFERING FROM MISSING LIMBS AND POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS SYNDROME WHO FIND THEMSELVES WITHOUT BENEFITS OR THE ARMY PRETTY MUCH JUST IGNORES THEM OR GIVE THEM THE BARE MINIMUM.

Should you find yourself shell-shocked, homeless, missing limbs, and carrying some mystery disease we infected you with ourselves...don't call us, we'll call you. SAME AS ABOVE.

I REMEMBER SAYING, I DIDN'T AGREE WITH HIM CALLING THEM SUCKERS AND SUCH.

So no, I'm not f**k nuts, he's not my son. If you read my post above you'd see I support the soldiers. I can agree with some things people say instead of you guys who just read what you want to hear.

Chaeya

#129954 by Mike Nobody
Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:18 pm
Chaeya wrote:
I REMEMBER SAYING, I DIDN'T AGREE WITH HIM CALLING THEM SUCKERS AND SUCH.

.... I can agree with some things people say instead of you guys who just dismiss everything someone says.

Chaeya


Actually, "I" didn't call anyone a babykiller, disposable hired killer, or sucker. In the context of the post, it is a first-person statement from someone (not me) who does not care about Vets. I do care. That was the point of the post.

IT'S CALLED SARCASM, PEOPLE!

I kinda thought the link to Metallica's "Disposable Heroes" would have been a big hint. But, no one likes links, I guess.

Thanks Chaeya, for getting most of it. Chew these guys a new asshole if they call you any names or insults again.

#129955 by Chaeya
Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:24 pm
I went back and read again, and yes, sorry darling, now I get it. My apologies. (Hats off and flubbers to you) I can admit my wrong here and that I also didn't properly read your post. I don't remember Metallica's Disposable Heroes, but I get your sarcasm.

Chaeya

#129957 by Mike Nobody
Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:32 pm
Chaeya wrote:I went back and read again, and yes, sorry darling, now I get it. My apologies. (Hats off and flubbers to you) I can admit my wrong here and that I also didn't properly read your post. I don't remember Metallica's Disposable Heroes, but I get your sarcasm.

Chaeya


My comment was mostly directed at the rest of these clowns with poor reading comprehension skills and no sense of humor, not you.

Disposable Heroes was written before Metallica started to suck, it is generally written about the shitty treatment of Vietnam vets. But, it could apply to soldiers of ANY war, really.

#129963 by philbymon
Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:29 pm
That's our little ray of sunshine!

#129979 by Chaeya
Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:48 pm
I'm trying to find some literature on the show I saw a few years back. It was about soldiers who had served in Iraq and there was a guy who had been horribly burned, a few in wheelchairs and a number of them suffering from stress disorders. Since Iraq, there have been a high number of suicides from vets and they have just as shitty mental health services as I did at the time. I was in tears after watching this.

Here's some interesting reports to support my frame of thought:

"Babykiller" by Barnett Hoffman: http://www.vva951.org/baby-killers.html

Poor Health Benefits Articles:

http://health.change.org/blog/view/vete ... _exposures

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tment.html

Ron Kovic's Activism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Kovic

Republicans being assholes and the Dems being wusses: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ ... 6612.shtml


Chaeya

#129981 by Mike Nobody
Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:02 pm
Suicide: The Unheard Cry - U.S. Army Film - Prevention, Personalities, Behavior (1968)

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=579316F61F5BEC6D

#129988 by RGMixProject
Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:39 pm
I took a copy of this whole thread to the American Legion and the gereral consensus was: 365 days in a year and it only takes one dumb a@@ person to fu@k everything up. "In this case two" and not give you the time of day.

All the other vets; I can't repeat, just don't show your face around this town. :x Your apology's are not accepted. We are all sure there is a nice little grass hut in North Vietnam for ya to express your hate speech.
This could have been a great thread, and I should not waist any time on a couple of low lifes.



To JW123, thankyou form AM #89

#129989 by dizzizz
Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:46 pm
RGMixProject wrote:I took a copy of this whole thread to the American Legion and the gereral consensus was: 365 days in a year and it only takes one dumb a@@ person to fu@k everything up. "In this case two" and not give you the time of day.

All the other vets; I can't repeat, just don't show your face around this town. :x Your apology's are not accepted. We are all sure there is a nice little grass hut in North Vietnam for ya to express your hate speech.
This could have been a great thread, and I should not waist any time on a couple of low lifes.



To JW123, thankyou form AM #89


Alright, I'll keep in mind that speaking against the lack of benefits for Vets is hate speech. Sorry, I'll just sit back and watch them die from treatable illnesses next time, don't want to be hateful.

#130000 by Chaeya
Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:03 pm
RGMixProject wrote:I took a copy of this whole thread to the American Legion and the gereral consensus was: 365 days in a year and it only takes one dumb a@@ person to fu@k everything up. "In this case two" and not give you the time of day.

All the other vets; I can't repeat, just don't show your face around this town. :x Your apology's are not accepted. We are all sure there is a nice little grass hut in North Vietnam for ya to express your hate speech.
This could have been a great thread, and I should not waist any time on a couple of low lifes.

To JW123, thankyou form AM #89


You actually printed this out and took it to some vets? Wow, I'm impressed by your passion. So they read the whole thing, word for word, or did you simply highlight passages for them to read without reading the entire thing? OR did they just read some of it and just stopped and said we were assholes?

It could have been a great thread if some folks hadn't (a) misread what other people were saying; (b) do not understand basic reading comprehension or (c) just like to start sh*t.

I dare you to go back and point out one hateful thing I've said against a vet, WHICH YOU CAN'T. Mike already stated he was being sarcastic which I see how easily his first post was misinterpreted. And I see how some people just don't want to admit they're wrong and rather take misinformation to a whole new level.

Gee, I'm not even angry anymore, this is just sad. Kinda funny too.

Chaeya

#130013 by RGMixProject
Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:30 am
I am an American Soldier.

I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional.

I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.

I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American Soldier.


1. Code of the U.S. Fighting Force
a. As a member of the armed forces of the United States, you are protecting your nation. It is your duty to oppose all enemies of the United States in combat or, if a captive, in a prisoner of war compound. Your behavior is guided by the Code of Conduct, which has evolved from the heroic lives, experiences and deeds of Americans from the Revolutionary War to Operation: Iraqi Freedom.
b. Your obligations as a U.S. citizen and a member of the armed forces result from the traditional values that underlie the American experience as a nation. These values are best expressed in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, which you have sworn to uphold and defend. You would have these obligations—our country, your service and unit and your fellow Americans—even if the Code of Conduct had never been formulated as a high standard of general behavior.
c. Just as you have a responsibility to your country under the Code of Conduct, the United States government has an equal responsibility—to keep faith with you and stand by you as you fight for your country. If you are unfortunate enough to become a prisoner of war, you may rest assured that your government will care for your dependents and will never forget you. Furthermore, the government will use every practical means to contact, support and gain release for you and for all other prisoners of war.
d. To live up to the code, you must know not only its words but the ideas and principles behind those words.
e. This pamphlet contains the code, an explanation of its principles and a statement of the standards expected of you.
f. The Code of Conduct is an ethical guide. Its six articles deal with your chief concerns as an American in combat; these concerns become critical when you must evade capture, resist while a prisoner or escape from the enemy.
g. Experiences of captured Americans reveal that to survive captivity honorably would demand from you great courage, deep dedication and high motivation. To sustain these personal values throughout captivity requires that you understand and believe strongly in our free and democratic institutions, love your country, trust in the justice of our cause, keep faithful and loyal to your fellow prisoners and hold firmly to your religious and moral beliefs in time of trial.
h. Your courage, dedication and motivation supported by understanding, trust and fidelity will help you endure the terrors of captivity, prevail over your captors and return to your family, home and nation with honor and pride.
i. The Code of Conduct for members of the Armed Forces of the United States was first promulgated by President Dwight D. Eisenhower Aug. 17, 1955. The code, including its basic philosophy, was reaffirmed on July 8, 1964, in DOD Directive No. 1300.7. In March 1988, President Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12633, amending the code with language that is gender–neutral, The code, although first expressed in written form in 1955, is based on time–honored concepts and traditions that date back to the days of the American Revolution.
2. Code of Conduct I
a. I am an American fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
b. All men and women in the armed forces have the duty at all times and under all circumstances to oppose the enemies of the United States and support its national interests. In training or in combat, alone or with others, while evading capture or enduring captivity, this duty belongs to each American defending our nation regardless of circumstances.
3. Code of Conduct II
a. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
b. As an individual, a member of the armed forces may never voluntarily surrender. When isolated and no longer able to inflict casualties on the enemy, the American soldier has an obligation to evade capture and rejoin friendly forces.
c. Only when evasion by an individual is impossible and further fighting would lead only to death with no significant loss to the enemy should one consider surrender. With all reasonable means of resistance exhausted and with certain death the only alternative, capture does not imply dishonor.
d. The responsibility and authority of a commander never extends to the surrender of a command to the enemy while the command has the power to fight and evade. When isolated, cut off or surrounded, a unit must continue to fight until relieved or able to rejoin friendly forces through continued efforts to break out or evade the enemy.
4. Code of Conduct III
a. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
b. The duty of a member of the armed forces to use all means available to resist the enemy is not lessened by the misfortune of captivity. A POW is still legally bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice and ethically guided by the Code of Conduct. Under provisions of the Geneva Convention, a prisoner of war is also subject to certain rules imposed by the captor nation. When repatriated, a prisoner of war will not be condemned for having obeyed reasonable captor rules, such as sanitation regulations. The duty of a member of the armed forces to continue to resist does not mean a prisoner should engage in unreasonable harassment as a form of resistance, retaliation by captors to the detriment of that prisoner and other prisoners is frequently the primary result of such harassment.
c. The Geneva Convention recognizes that a POW may have the duty to attempt escape. In fact, the Geneva Convention prohibits a captor nation from executing a POW simply for attempting escape. Under the authority of the senior official (often called the senior ranking officer, or SRO), a POW must be prepared to escape whenever the opportunity presents itself. In a POW compound, the senior POW must consider the welfare of those remaining behind after an escape. However, as a matter of conscious determination, a POW must plan to escape, try to escape and assist others to escape.
d. Contrary to the spirit of the Geneva Convention, many enemies who have captured American POW's since 1950, have regarded the POW compound as an extension of the battlefield. In doing so, they have used a variety of tactics and pressures, including physical and mental mistreatment, torture and medical neglect, to exploit POWs for propaganda purposes, to obtain military information or to undermine POW organization, communication and resistance.
e. Such enemies have attempted to lure American POWs into accepting special favors or privileges in exchange for statements, acts or information. Unless it is essential to the life or welfare of that person or another prisoner of war or to the success of efforts to resist or escape, a POW must neither seek nor accept special favors or privileges.
f. One such privilege is called parole. Parole is a promise by a prisoner of war to a captor to fulfill certain conditions such as agreeing not to escape nor to fight again once released—in return for such favors as relief from physical bondage, improved food and living conditions or repatriation ahead of the sick, injured or longer–held prisoners. An American POW will never sign nor otherwise accept parole.
5. Code of Conduct IV.
a. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
b. Informing or any other action to the detriment of a fellow prisoner is despicable and is expressly forbidden. Prisoners of war must avoid helping the enemy identify fellow prisoners who may have knowledge of particular value to the enemy and who may, therefore, be made to suffer coercive interrogation.
c. Strong leadership and communication are essential to discipline. Discipline is the key to camp organization, resistance and even survival. Personal hygiene, camp sanitation and care of sick and wounded are imperative. Officers and non-commissioned officers of the United States must continue to carry out their responsibilities and exercise their authority in captivity. The senior, regardless of service, must accept command. This responsibility and accountability may not be evaded.
d. If the senior is incapacitated or is otherwise unable to act, the next senior person will assume command. Camp leaders should make every effort to inform all POWs of the chain of command and try to represent them in dealing with enemy authorities. The responsibility of subordinates to obey the lawful orders of ranking American military personnel remains unchanged in captivity.
e. The Geneva Convention Relative to Treatment of Prisoners of War provides for election of a "prisoners' representative" in POW camps containing enlisted personnel but no commissioned officers. American POWs should understand that such a representative is only a spokesman for the actual senior ranking person. Should the enemy appoint a POW chain of command for its own purposes, American POWs should make all efforts to adhere to the principles of Article IV.
f. As with other provisions of this code, common sense and the conditions of captivity will affect the way in which the senior person and the other POWs organize to carry out their responsibilities. What is important is that everyone support and work within the POW organization.
6. Code of Conduct V.
a. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
b. When questioned, a prisoner of war is required by the Geneva Convention and this code to give name, rank, service number (Social Security number) and date of birth. The prisoner should make every effort to avoid giving the captor any additional information. The prisoner may communicate with captors on matters of health and welfare and additionally may write letters home and fill out a Geneva Convention "capture card."
c. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to place a prisoner under physical or mental duress, torture or any other form of coercion in an effort to secure information. If under such intense coercion, a POW discloses unauthorized information, makes an unauthorized statement or performs an unauthorized act, that prisoner's peace of mind and survival require a quick recovery of courage, dedication and motivation to resist anew each subsequent coercion.
d. Actions every POW should resist include making oral or written confessions and apologies, answering questionnaires, providing personal histories, creating propaganda recordings, broadcasting appeals to other prisoners of war, providing any other material readily usable for propaganda purposes, appealing for surrender or parole, furnishing self-criticisms and communicating on behalf of the enemy to the detriment of the United States, its allies, its armed forces or other POWs.
e. Every POW should also recognize that any confession signed or any statement made may be used by the enemy as a false evidence that the person is a "war criminal" rather than a POW. Several countries have made reservations to the Geneva Convention in which they assert that a "war criminal" conviction deprives the convicted individual of prisoner-of-war status, removes that person from protection under the Geneva Convention and revokes all rights to repatriation until a prison sentence is served.
f. Recent experiences of American prisoners of war have proved that, although enemy interrogation sessions may be harsh and cruel, one can resist brutal mistreatment when the will to resist remains intact.
g. The best way for a prisoner to keep faith with country, fellow prisoners and self is to provide the enemy with as little information as possible.
7. Code of Conduct VI
a. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
b. A member of the armed forces remains responsible for personal actions at all times.
c. A member of the armed forces who is captured has a continuing obligation to resist and to remain loyal to country, service, unit and fellow prisoners.
d. Upon repatriation, POWs can expect their actions to be reviewed, both as to circumstances of capture and conduct during detention. The purpose of such review is to recognize meritorious performance as well as to investigate possible misconduct. Each review will be conducted with due regard for the rights of the individual and consideration for the conditions of captivity; captivity of itself is not a condition of culpability.
e. Members of the armed forces should remember that they and their dependents will be taken care of by the appropriate service and that pay and allowances, eligibility and procedures for promotion and benefits for dependents continue while the service member is detained. Service members should assure that their personal affairs and family matters (such as pay, powers of attorney, current will and provisions for family maintenance and education) are properly and currently arranged. Failure to so arrange matters can create a serious sense of guilt for a POW and place unnecessary hardship on family members.
f. The life of a prisoner of war is hard. Each person in this stressful situation must always sustain hope and resist enemy indoctrination. Prisoners of war standing firm and united against the enemy will support and inspire one another in surviving their ordeal and in prevailing over misfortune with honor.


The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

#130023 by Stranger
Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:11 am
It's amazing how writing can be so misconstrued.....

I think in the original post Mike was being sarcastic.... but his real F*ck up was not clearing up that he was being sarcastic to the ones who took offense.

And Mike....I'll be as literal as I want to be. You're about as low on the totem pole as a soul can be here and in no position to be giving advise.....

#130024 by J-HALEY
Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:15 am
Mike sometimes its not what you say but HOW YOU SAY IT! :wink:

#130046 by Mike Nobody
Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:24 am
Stranger wrote:It's amazing how writing can be so misconstrued.....

I think in the original post Mike was being sarcastic.... but his real F*ck up was not clearing up that he was being sarcastic to the ones who took offense.

And Mike....I'll be as literal as I want to be. You're about as low on the totem pole as a soul can be here and in no position to be giving advise.....
:roll:

#130049 by J-HALEY
Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:43 am
Come on Bro! Are YOU denying YOU ARE A GOOD GUY?

REDEEM YOURSELF! :P

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