General Music Chat

My stand on this is pretty simple (and I think Mike hit on it): It's all about control and excess. I don't assume to tell anyone how to live their life. However, if it involves MY time and work, the other guy better be up to par. The problem is that people don't know when to cut themselves off.

I went and jammed with a band @ two years ago...they were a pretty solid cover band. Unfortunately, during my first practice with them, the singer drank a six pack, smoked a couple of bowls and snorted a few pain pills... . He could barely stand up by the time I made some excuse to leave. It's a shame, because the guitarist and the drummer were not only decent players, but they managed to keep themselves relatively straight. The singer, on the other hand, seemed to pride himself on getting f@cked up and making an ass out of himself. There was no point in me wasting my time.

Anyway, Bob, to address your question: I personally am not concerned about whether or not someone brings beer with them. I'm only concerned about whether or not they understand that they better be able to maintain a level head. I'm not saying this out of ego, I promise, but I think any dedicated musician should value his or her own hard work enough NOT to subject themselves to that kind of b.s.

When I was playing weekly it was mostly in Irish bars, If I didn't have a fresh pint they'd lust bring yo one.

But I've played with terrible alcoholics and marijuana abusers that made playing a nightmare. It should be about the music not the drug of choice..

Strangely enough I rarely drink at all these days....

I'm with the excess vs. control. I don't care if a person drinks. The bass player for hubs' band drank and got all beligerant and rude to everyone. They kicked his ass out of the band. If you can't handle it, then don't do it. I don't have time for it.

Chaeya

This first time with these guys was bad from the get-go for other reasons. I was under the impression that everybody had a CD of the songs we were to rehearse. Not the case. Second, we were meeting for the first time AND recording everything. Is that a waste of time? Recording with no rehearsal AND people don't even know what songs we are playing? Add that complete disorganization AND everybody showed up an hour late AND were drinking before we even struck a note. I treat the music business as just that, a business. I wonder if these guys showed up to their day gigs an hour late with a beer in their hands what would happen? My time is precious. This was on a Sunday when I usually fish. I'll sacrifice a few hours of fishing any day for an organized bunch of musicians who execute a plan. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we envision...

Right on target, Bob. I'm with ya 100%.

Without going into too many details if I get together for the first time with musical people and they are already drinking, then usually that's the last time I get together with them.

Depends on how they act because of drinking, and how much they drink.
Some, hell probably 'most' people shouldnt be drinking, cuz they cant handle their liquor.

I prefer to have nothing to do with drink or drugs around me in a band situation.
I won't tolerate it at all in everyday life.

This first time with these guys was bad from the get-go for other reasons. I was under the impression that everybody had a CD of the songs we were to rehearse. Not the case. Second, we were meeting for the first time AND recording everything. Is that a waste of time? Recording with no rehearsal AND people don't even know what songs we are playing? Add that complete disorganization AND everybody showed up an hour late AND were drinking before we even struck a note. I treat the music business as just that, a business. I wonder if these guys showed up to their day gigs an hour late with a beer in their hands what would happen? My time is precious. This was on a Sunday when I usually fish. I'll sacrifice a few hours of fishing any day for an organized bunch of musicians who execute a plan. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we envision...

Sounds like they need a LEADER Bob

This first time with these guys was bad from the get-go for other reasons. I was under the impression that everybody had a CD of the songs we were to rehearse. Not the case. Second, we were meeting for the first time AND recording everything. Is that a waste of time? Recording with no rehearsal AND people don't even know what songs we are playing? Add that complete disorganization AND everybody showed up an hour late AND were drinking before we even struck a note. I treat the music business as just that, a business. I wonder if these guys showed up to their day gigs an hour late with a beer in their hands what would happen? My time is precious. This was on a Sunday when I usually fish. I'll sacrifice a few hours of fishing any day for an organized bunch of musicians who execute a plan. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we envision...

Sounds like they need a LEADER Bob

I brought up the issue of leadership with a potential drummer. He was all gung-ho about joining us. But, he had, I think, a naive concept of us being the Four Muskateers "All for one and one for all!" While I wished bands could work like that, my experience says nothing gets accomplished by committee and no one likes a tyrant. So, what works should be somewhere in the middle. Soon as he heard that he took his toys and went home. I hope he changes his mind sometime. Maybe he thought I was going to dictate everything. I dunno. Whatchy'all think?

If I'm in the musical director chair I'm a "benevolent dictator"

I expect you to know the material, have your parts full learned and ready to go. But I also listen to what anyone in the band has to say to make the song or set better ... and if it has a valid point ... I make it so.

The flip side of this is there are garage rockers who are just doing it as an excuse to get loaded. They act like they are serious when they talk to you on the phone or online. I would think that you can tell where thier mind set is when you meet them. I mean you dont have to play with them if they arent what you want to be around. But I know lots of people that just get together once a week or once a month and play music, and they like to drink while they do it.

Just learn to quickly decided whats up.

The flip side of this is there are garage rockers who are just doing it as an excuse to get loaded. They act like they are serious when they talk to you on the phone or online. I would think that you can tell where thier mind set is when you meet them. I mean you dont have to play with them if they arent what you want to be around. But I know lots of people that just get together once a week or once a month and play music, and they like to drink while they do it.

Just learn to quickly decided whats up.

Agreed John .. I do it at least once a month with friends for fun, no pressure .. but it sounds like Bob would rather be fishing for social exercise

Mike, what I've learned (the hard way) about band leadership is this:

You have to plan FAR ahead, and make sure everyone has the same goals in mind, leaving nothing to chance or to be interpreted in different ways. Then, it becomes the job of the band leader to keep everything working towards those goals. Then again, my last band situation basically came down to the "leader" using his position to make the situation what he wanted it to be. Like I said, I've learned this the hard way.
When you sit and think about a group of people, and try to not only identify, but also meet their personal goals, it can be extremely overwhelming-it's amazing to me that ANY band ever makes it off the ground.
Hell, as much as I like the folks on BM, when I approached the topic (hypothetically) here, most of the responses were that each one had to have a major control in whatever situation they joined. Nobody wants to be a sideman anymore. There are tons of successful groups out there where the drummer is simply the drummer, and the bass player just holds down the low end. Those guys aren't making the decisions-but they are making money.
I apologize if any of my friends here have taken this as disrespectful...I am merely repeating what I've learned on previous posts.

You have to plan FAR ahead, and make sure everyone has the same goals in mind, leaving nothing to chance or to be interpreted in different ways. Then, it becomes the job of the band leader to keep everything working towards those goals.

That’s the approach I’ve taken. I laid out creative and business goals as well as I could articulate. The drummer was really excited about being a part of it…until he thought he was going to be a “sideman.” Then, he split. It’s tough enough getting people on the same page for the creative and / or business side. Getting their personalities to work together makes it even harder.

Hell, as much as I like the folks on BM, when I approached the topic (hypothetically) here, most of the responses were that each one had to have a major control in whatever situation they joined. Nobody wants to be a sideman anymore. There are tons of successful groups out there where the drummer is simply the drummer, and the bass player just holds down the low end. Those guys aren't making the decisions-but they are making money.

I was happy being a sideman in N2 Submission. The bandleader had an established persona and sound. He pretty much gave us a free hand to do whatever we wanted. I just tried to add whatever worked within those parameters. I got the most gigs and made the most money (what little there was) with him than any other band I’ve been in. He just turned out to be a two-faced asshole when we lived with him. Word of warning: You don’t really know someone until you’ve lived with them. Don’t do it!

We all develop our own comfort zone when it comes to the group of people we work/play with. If there is something that takes you out of that zone then you need to get to gettin'. Light to moderate drinking does not bother me. I am gone if there is heavy drinking. I am also gone if there are drugs involved. Plus, being a woman I must be concerned for my own safety, first.