General Music Chat

Jymmy Danger wrote:

believe that both religion and science are different ways of answering the same questions

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With one major difference Religion professes to have all the answers to those questions, while science IMH is still in its embryonic state toward answering said questions.

Oh Yes spirituality what can I say? The only thing that’s clear to me is that Humans since the beginning is born with an innate need for spirituality and I make the distinction that spirituality and Religion are distinct and separate.

I do not accept the concept that in order to experience spirituality one has to be religious nor is spirituality the sole domain of anyone Religion. (Philbymon said more or less the same thing)

I… like most of people, have experienced spiritual moments unlike most people I do not claim to know who or what caused those spiritual moments, that answer thus far is beyond my comprehension.

Over the years I've tried to learn through Anthropology of different Earth cultures from the Jungles of Africa, South America New Guinea to the Tibetans and native Americans who have develop methods and rituals to induce a state of trance , vision or spirituality which they were promptly attributed to their respective Gods or Great spirit.

Are these cultures right? If so we have to conclude that contrary to Western believe in monotheism there is polytheism.

If these cultures are wrong in their assumptions than I afraid we have the old riddle... Is the empirical being sacrificed to the benefit of faith which requires neither back up arguments nor proof?

This unansewred question precludes many people from participating to organized Religion.

You know a lie can be just as good as the truth if repeated long enough and get people to believe it.

Whoa...I don't know how this thread turned to spirituality (I just got off work and my brain can't wrap around it). I personally respect the comments here, because to me a least, a human mind that is searching is working. Believe what you want, it's all good with me. I guess the only that I can add is to just be careful with your beliefs...that's the whole problem with the origin of this post. It's essentially about people trying to jam their own ideas and beliefs down the throats of others.

I'll go ahead and drop this bomb now: I don't support free speech.

The constitution, just like every other document, book or crayon doodle on this planet, is not perfect. Most of the laws in this country are designed as generalizations to "blanket" situations. There is no room for details, and when interpretations ARE made, they are done so by people who have no involvement and minimal understanding of the situation.

The idea that any jackass can say or essentially do whatever he wants, because of his rights of free speech is unbearable.
Case in point: These people can show up and protest a funeral, spouting off about anything they wish, even though its unethical, immoral and disrespectful.

Wouldn't it be better for them to have the right to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and KEEP THEIR OPINIONS TO THEMSELVES?

I'm not a religious man, but I'll go out on a limb here. I'm pretty sure that when the you read the Ten Commandments, they for the most part cover NOT going to a strangers' funeral and shouting slurs at him and his family.
Anyway, I'm ranting, but I think there has to be a line drawn. And no, before anyone suggests it, I DO NOT think that I am the guy to draw that line...but SOMEBODY needs to.

I pray it wont be too late when you find out your wrong.
But continue with your personal persecution of me.
One more confused liberal who's distracted ... is to my advantage.

Man I'm not trying to persecute you, it's just we have different ways of looking at things and some of the things you say I just can't let sit.
Are you the only one who gets to state your point of view?

Personally you seem like a very nice person and I really don't have a problem with you. But man this is the web and this is a forum and we're all telling it the way we see it and hey...I you say something that's not right in my eyes I'm gonna tell you. And I can tell you'd do the same for me.

If suggesting that some one is "delusional" is not persecution I'm not sure what would be.
Perhaps that was not your intent. And for that I would apologize.

If we can agree to disagree.
I'm cool with that.

Now I have to preach some more.
And not at anyone in particular. Just something I feel at this point must be said in reference to "living a righteous life".
I would not decry anyone whom attempts to live justly.
I feel it is a moral ( not religious ) obligation.
And indeed it is imposable.

But:

Salvation is though Jesus alone, as a free gift. Because no man is capable of keeping the law.
That is the beauty of it ...
Jesus loved me enough to suffer and die for me because he knew I could not keep our fathers laws.
All too many Christians get hung up in the Law and miss totally the glory of the Gospel.

It is the only thing I would ever truly want to convey to my fellow man.

"I'll go ahead and drop this bomb now: I don't support free speech." Joseph6'

I guess we should all stop playing music, one of the highest forms of free speech.

Joseph6 wrote:

I'll go ahead and drop this bomb now: I don't support free speech.

If you don’t support free speech than by taking your position to its logical conclusion you would support controlled speech, here things get sticky, who is going to control speech who decides what you can and can’t say?

I support free speech. I also support someone's right to kick these ppl's asses for bein' a bunch of totally disrespectful assholes, not only to an American soldier who did his duty & did it well, but to his father.

To me, there is a distinction between speaking one's mind & speaking to hurt. The latter has consequences that the law shouldn't intervene with.

F*ck 'em & feed 'em beans!

Note that we HAVE laws in place that protect blacks, homosexuals, & other ethnicities on the books. We also have laws concerning "veiled threats." Speech hasn't been totally "free" in this country for over 30 years.

Joseph6 wrote:

I'll go ahead and drop this bomb now: I don't support free speech.

If you don’t support free speech than by taking your position to its logical conclusion you would support controlled speech, here things get sticky, who is going to control speech who decides what you can and can’t say?

HITLER,STALLIN, MAO, POL POT, CASTRO, CHE, And even your local school board.

Why do you think the founders of our GREAT country felt that it was the most important amendment that it was the first..........

Why do you think guns were second?

Answer: Guns were never intended to stop the other person from speaking and voicing their own opinion.

Guns were intended to stop the other person, from disallowing your freedom of speech.

Try to think a bit deeper on that one,,,,,, instead of just shooting your guitar off.

Joseph6 wrote:

I'll go ahead and drop this bomb now: I don't support free speech.

If you don’t support free speech than by taking your position to its logical conclusion you would support controlled speech,

That's a 'hasty generalization'.
Fallacious Logic.

Should this behavior be protected under the auspices of "free speech?"

If not, why?

If so, why?

For some ppl, this is a purely religious issue of morality. The perpetrators of this type of action believe they are working to "save the souls" of others.

I would argue that no man can "save" the soul of another, that only through "proper" free choice, can a person save his own soul. It cannot be saved by another person. Those who would rule by their good book, whatever book it may be, are trying to force perfect behavior upon others, & thus claim that they've saved ppl from sin. Is this what their all-powerful being wants?

Well, constitutionally, they have the right to make asses out of themselves. But, then they have to deal with the consequences. The harassment suit was totally justified. But, they shouldn't have lowered the damages amount. Our rights aren't absolute. They come into conflict with each other.

Salvation is though Jesus alone, as a free gift. Because no man is capable of keeping the law.
That is the beauty of it ...
Jesus loved me enough to suffer and die for me because he knew I could not keep our fathers laws.
All too many Christians get hung up in the Law and miss totally the glory of the Gospel.

It is the only thing I would ever truly want to convey to my fellow man.

Well you have you right to say this and I have the right to say I don't believe this. I can even say I think this way of thinking is damaging the world. But it seems every time I express my opinion I'm called a bunch of names. So be it......

LOl...Zip is right about the hasty generalization, on my part as well. It is a sticky situation, and I did make it clear that I don't believe myself to be the man for deciding who gets to speak. (Thanks for the Stalin, etc. references-basically demonizing my statement because you don't agree with it.
No, I don't think we should all stop playing music...I guess the question is this: Is freedom of self expression equal to freedom of speech?

For me-and me alone-it's a question of discipline. I guarantee you that visiting children in my home do NOT have freedom of speech. They understand that I make the decisions here. I've seen too many households run amuck because parents decided to let the kids run the show. It won't happen here. What I say goes. Period. And guess what? It works. These same children not only behave, as well as show me respect, but continually beg their parents for return visits. They like it here.
Why am I talking about children? Because there is no discernable line. Don't kids have the right to free speech? Hell, let's just hand over the reigns of society to those least capable of handling the power.
No, my friends, it won't work. There must be order.

Ironically, this debate goes on under the banner of one of the few forums I've seen WITH NO MODERATOR!

Free speech is just a train wreck. It's sadly just a tool for each of us to push our beliefs on one another. A good idea once, but now, just another abused piece of a hopelessly flawed system.


BTW: Before you put too much stock in the perfection of the Constitution, consider the first line of the preamble:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a MORE PERFECT union..."

Perfect=flawless.

More perfect=??? MORE flawless? You have everything, and you want more? Can't have more if you already have it all...

Ranting again...sorry. You all have my permission to continue...(j/k).

I don’t know where to begin with this.

“Is freedom of self expression equal to freedom of speech?”

Duh! Otherwise, what is the point of free speech?
Next, your erroneous comparison of society to your children is ill-conceived. You are an ADULT. Children don’t vote and are unlikely to get suffrage anytime soon. When I see a fetus in a voting booth, then we’ll consider that argument.

“Free speech is just a train wreck. It's sadly just a tool for each of us to push our beliefs on one another. A good idea once, but now, just another abused piece of a hopelessly flawed system.”

Take that sh*t to Korea or Iran. Freedom is messy. Deal with it.

BTW: Before you put too much stock in the perfection of the Constitution, consider the first line of the preamble:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a MORE PERFECT union..."

Anyone here proclaiming the Constitution to be perfect? No. It was always a work in progress. Hence, “in order to form a MORE PERFECT union..." I’m sure Indians, Women, and Blacks will attest to its history of imperfection.

I believe in free speech, but people have to take what comes with that.

Just saying, a klansman can walk down the street with a sigh that says anything whatever negative about blacks and jews. If I saw him, I'd ignore him. To me, ignoring a person is the for more lethal than me going out and throwing stones at him. This person is looking for attention, so giving him what he wants is the last thing I want to do. Also, by giving him attention, I'm presuming that other's would be influenced by his hate and can't think for themselves. I feel confident that most people will think he's an idiot and those who agree with him, I could care less about. They can go march with him if they want. Whatever. I feel the same about shock jocks. They want to call me the "n" word, say I have nappy hair, I don't listen to their show anywhere because I think they're very intelligent anyway when the entire motivation for the show is to piss people off. Sorry, I'll listen to Don Rickles who's far funnier. Let them keep their jobs, I don't care.

There are people who believe what they believe and I think they should have a right to believe it. But in saying that, if they try to turn what they believe into law and take a public forum where they're lobbying it in government, I will fight them.

As far as jackasses going out and protesting at funerals, I believe if they do that, then the consequences should be the same as if I walked into someone's yard with a pack of rottweilers. I get my ass kicked. I believe they should be sued for harassment and they should be fined. It should be illegal to protest in the vicinity of someone's funeral.

I love free speech. I like being able to go to a public forum and say what I want to say. I have a girlfriend who is a staunch Republican. We get into it, but at the end of it all, we're still friends. I love having someone to debate with. And at times I see her point and at others she sees mine. People just have to learn to get over themselves and stop taking stuff so personally.

Chaeya